Results 1 to 15 of 15
Like Tree13Likes
  • 3 Post By robusto
  • 1 Post By matth3wh
  • 1 Post By LeroyC
  • 6 Post By Yelta
  • 1 Post By level3ninja
  • 1 Post By Yelta

Thread: Cafe says portafilters burn coffee

  1. #1
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,648

    Cafe says portafilters burn coffee

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Walked into a cafe, went to the counter to order two coffees. I noticed the machine's 3 portaftes were not on their groups but sitting on the drip tray. Maybe the machine was out of order, thought I.

    "Are you going to make the coffees with that machine?" I asked incredulously?
    "Yes"
    "But the portafilters are off the groups"
    "Yes, I was told you have to leave them off otherwise the coffee gets burned".

    I told her thar was incorrect... but she had work to do and wasn't about to debate coffee making with this stranger customer...

    Where do idiotic ideas which fly in the face of the basics come from? How do such cafes survive?
    Dimal, flynnaus and topshot like this.

  2. #2
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW
    Posts
    972
    Splash some zippo on top and light it up man
    simonsk8r likes this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,463
    If they had pre prepared the coffee in them I could agree. If it's a Hx E61/similar machine a cooling flush may be required if a group head hasn't been used in a little while. If they're running the boiler at a high temp to have lots of steam, and using darker roasted beans that do better with a lower brew temperature, and they're only using the machine every hour or so, then maybe? Otherwise I can't see it happening but I'm not the suppository of all wisdom.

  4. #4
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,247
    Anyone who uses the phrase ‘burn the coffee’ doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The only place you can ‘burn’ coffee is in a coffee roaster (or a fire).
    matth3wh likes this.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,866
    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I'm not the suppository of all wisdom.
    I thought that was Tony Abbotts job.

  6. #6
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,463
    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Anyone who uses the phrase ‘burn the coffee’ doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The only place you can ‘burn’ coffee is in a coffee roaster (or a fire).
    I was under the impression I could burn it with a super slow extraction. If I get something like 10g yield in 60s it will taste like ash and burnt rubber. It's quite a different taste to the bitterness of over extraction.
    noonar likes this.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,866
    Guess you could use the term burn although to me is seems inappropriate, doesn't really describe whats happening, prolonged exposure to higher temperature has had an undesired affect on the coffee, not really burnt it.

    Some foods can be adversely affected when overcooked but have not been burned, resulting in undesired flavours.

    fire or heat has hurt or damaged something:
    LeroyC likes this.

  8. #8
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,247
    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I was under the impression I could burn it with a super slow extraction. If I get something like 10g yield in 60s it will taste like ash and burnt rubber. It's quite a different taste to the bitterness of over extraction.
    Yes, absolutely you can generate burnt flavours through a variety of poor practices. Ashy/burnt flavours in a beverage is different to actually burning the coffee though in my opinion. It’s not a turn of phrase I like to use as I don’t think it’s the most appropriate adjective.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,866
    Espresso extraction temp is <> 90°C, well below boiling point at sea level of 100°C and way below the ignition point of roasted coffee beans.

    I suspect what we are seeing is extraction of unwanted flavours/substances because of excessive heat, certainly not burning.

  10. #10
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,463
    Interesting. So are we saying that those burnt flavours are always in the roasted coffee but if we extract well they end up in the knock bin rather than the cup?

  11. #11
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,247
    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Interesting. So are we saying that those burnt flavours are always in the roasted coffee but if we extract well they end up in the knock bin rather than the cup?
    Yes and no. It’s complex and dependent on lots of factors such as roast level, bean density, equipment and techniques used, and any ‘defects’ that are generated along the way. In my experience something not being quite right can lead to the burnt flavours showing up such as a roast defect or poor brewing. Roasting really dark or a very uneven roast are the most obvious causes. I think that you can definitely employ some basic ‘rules’ to avoid it, but if we go back to the original post the barista said they had to leave the portafilters out of the groups so that they didn’t ‘burn the coffee’. To me this seems like a temperature management work around and they don’t really understand why they’re doing it, rather they’re just doing it because someone told them to. I’d be interested to know what an espresso from this place tasted like.

  12. #12
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,648
    The espresso from this popular venue--yeah, I know--was cold, black, bitter, no crema.

  13. #13
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,247
    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    The espresso from this popular venue--yeah, I know--was cold, black, bitter, no crema.
    Do you know what brand of coffee they use?

  14. #14
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Central Queensland
    Posts
    1,091
    My experience is that bad practices (particularly with coffee) usually have friends.

  15. #15
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,648
    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Do you know what brand of coffee they use?
    No, I didn't notice.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •