Results 1 to 13 of 13
Like Tree11Likes
  • 1 Post By EspressoAdventurer
  • 1 Post By 338
  • 4 Post By topshot
  • 1 Post By Lyrebird
  • 2 Post By TampIt
  • 1 Post By LauriG
  • 1 Post By LauriG

Thread: A small step for human kind, A Big Step for Pullman?

  1. #1
    Member LauriG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Cairns, FNQ
    Posts
    68

    A small step for human kind, A Big Step for Pullman?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Tamp.jpg

    Looking at the photo above, Pullman would like me to think that it is time to buy a Big Step tamper.

    What does the coffesnob community think? I am using a VST basket with a Pullman Barista 58.4mm tamper.

    1. Should I improve something in my prep?
    2. Get myself a Big Step tamper?
    3. Enjoy the coffee and don't worry about it!

    "Am I killing my joy with perfectionism?" -LG

  2. #2
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,457
    You don't even need a photo for Pullman to say you need to buy a big step. That's their default setting, unless you own a big step in which case it's time to but a chisel.

    If you really want to check you can try a NSEW tamp. This means that you intentionally touch the tamper to the edge of the basket in the four points of the compass positions. If you can't see a difference in this probably not much point. If you want a cheaper 58.4mm tamper the Barista Hustle one is pretty good.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    301
    The Question LG is, will any other (random sized) tamper address the issue of
    stray fines being left on the side of your basket with careful puck prep?

    Pedantic? No because I believe the 'stray fines' don't add anything to the shot, But are
    likely to contaminate the brew path in your machine over time.
    And creates a cleaning cycle greater than what may be necessary in your circumstances.

    Is your tamper matched correctly to the baskets you have?

    And yes I've found that a tamper measured at no less than -0.15mm of the basket I.D. - at the puck prep height -
    and not greater than -0.25mm, can cleanly tamp a ridgeless basket.

    PS the other issue to discuss here -
    Have you checked and sure that your prep is consistent and sets the tamped puck height
    'below' the showerscreen?


    GL

  4. #4
    Member LauriG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Cairns, FNQ
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by EspressoAdventurer View Post
    The Question LG is, will any other (random sized) tamper address the issue of
    stray fines being left on the side of your basket with careful puck prep?

    Is your tamper matched correctly to the baskets you have?

    PS the other issue to discuss here -
    Have you checked and sure that your prep is consistent and sets the tamped puck height
    'below' the showerscreen?

    I think a standard VST 18g 58mm basket with Pullman 58.4mm tamper is matched correctly enough? I was expecting a tighter fit, though.

    Hence I was curious whether people think these stray fines are worthy of action or not and if so, what?

    After several 5c coin tests I have settled for 19g dose in this basket. I don't think the height of the bed is the issue here.

    I notice a lot of static in the grinds and perhaps that is exasperating the situation. Thanks for the practical tip Level3Ninja regarding NSWE. I will try that, although I am aiming for a clean in-out move because I am notoriously bad with constant over-fiddling with details, so interested in KISS.

    In the meantime I will ignore, blow off, try NSWE and save some cash, in case some magic new deals are on offer next May in MICE.

    Cheers and Thanks
    Learning continues...

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by LauriG View Post
    I think a standard VST 18g 58mm basket with Pullman 58.4mm tamper is matched correctly enough? I was expecting a tighter fit, though.
    Well there you go. if you think its fine ...then alls good.
    But then how do you think the fines are finding there way between tamper and basket wall? hmm
    And theres nothing in your post that says IT is a Matched Basket / Tamper set.

    Quote Originally Posted by LauriG View Post
    Hence I was curious whether people think these stray fines are worthy of action or not and if so, what?
    As my post indicates ...these random fines can only be spread thru the brew path of your E61 group.
    Is that a good thing ...Not really.


    Quote Originally Posted by LauriG View Post
    In the meantime I will ignore, and save some cash, in case some magic new deals are on offer next May in MICE.
    G L

    Quote Originally Posted by LauriG View Post
    After several 5c coin tests I have settled for 19g dose in this basket. I don't think the height of the bed is the issue here.
    And as I PS'd the point of puck height setup, clearly I am posting to help / alert / assist you in your coffee learning. I never inferred it has anything to do with fines up the side of a basket!

    Quote Originally Posted by LauriG View Post
    Learning continues...
    G L Indeed
    LauriG likes this.

  6. #6
    338
    338 is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    762
    Quote Originally Posted by EspressoAdventurer View Post
    And yes I've found that a tamper measured at no less than -0.15mm of the basket I.D. - at the puck prep height -
    and not greater than -0.25mm, can cleanly tamp a ridgeless basket.

    GL
    EA, you may want to put some brackets into this, or change it, it isn't expressing what I am guessing you want to say. I think you mean to say a tamper no larger than (I.D. - 0.15mm) and no smaller than (I.D. - 0.25mm), measured at puck height.
    Dimal likes this.

  7. #7
    Senior Member topshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Currans Hill, NSW
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by LauriG View Post
    Tamp.jpg

    Looking at the photo above, Pullman would like me to think that it is time to buy a Big Step tamper.

    What does the coffesnob community think? I am using a VST basket with a Pullman Barista 58.4mm tamper.

    1. Should I improve something in my prep?
    2. Get myself a Big Step tamper?
    3. Enjoy the coffee and don't worry about it!

    "Am I killing my joy with perfectionism?" -LG
    If your pours look good and the resulting coffee tastes great, then it's all good.
    Just enjoy making and drinking your coffee.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    505
    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    EA, you may want to put some brackets into this, or change it, it isn't expressing what I am guessing you want to say. I think you mean to say a tamper no larger than (I.D. - 0.15mm) and no smaller than (I.D. - 0.25mm), measured at puck height.
    Or Tamper = ID - 0.2 +/- 0.05.
    338 likes this.

  9. #9
    Member LauriG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Cairns, FNQ
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by EspressoAdventurer View Post
    Well there you go. if you think its fine ...then alls good.
    But then how do you think the fines are finding there way between tamper and basket wall? hmm
    And theres nothing in your post that says IT is a Matched Basket / Tamper set.

    G L Indeed
    EspressoAdventurer,

    I do appreciate your help and I know that is excactly what you are doing. I was missing the concept of "Matched Basket / Tamper Set". I wasn't quite tuned into the fact that Pullman can match the base specifically to your basket. My set is a standard stock basket and standard stock tamper - unmatched.

    Good point. The idea that any manufacturer does anything specifically for you, and you only, is so far removed from the modern world of "buying stuff" that I really had to rub my eyes when I learned that Pullman actually does that!

    Thanks mate, you have been very helpful. I shall look at a matching set in the future. For now let's call it close enough. I get the strays off by blowing and the machine is backflushed daily.

    TopShot: Yes, the pours are (mostly) good, coffee tastes great. Distribution / tamping is clearly a critical point in getting a good shot. I am enjoying the coffee, the learning and also the nitty gritty perfecting little details.

    Thank You everyone!

    LG

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Rockingham W.A.
    Posts
    1,377
    Quote Originally Posted by LauriG View Post
    EspressoAdventurer,

    I do appreciate your help and I know that is excactly what you are doing. I was missing the concept of "Matched Basket / Tamper Set". I wasn't quite tuned into the fact that Pullman can match the base specifically to your basket. My set is a standard stock basket and standard stock tamper - unmatched.

    Good point. The idea that any manufacturer does anything specifically for you, and you only, is so far removed from the modern world of "buying stuff" that I really had to rub my eyes when I learned that Pullman actually does that!

    Thanks mate, you have been very helpful. I shall look at a matching set in the future. For now let's call it close enough. I get the strays off by blowing and the machine is backflushed daily.

    TopShot: Yes, the pours are (mostly) good, coffee tastes great. Distribution / tamping is clearly a critical point in getting a good shot. I am enjoying the coffee, the learning and also the nitty gritty perfecting little details.

    Thank You everyone!

    LG
    G'day LauriG

    I have several Pullman 316 barista (old title) tampers. All "special orders" with the side of the tamper tapered to match the slope of the side of my VSTs (which makes a huge different to stray grounds not being an issue). Also, all of them have flat bases (critical for VSTs if you want to get the most extraction ratio out of them). None of them have tamping rings, as that just attracts grounds AFAIAC.

    IMO, using 316 means that static issues disappear - important to me, however honestly more "nice to have" than essential.

    As long as the tamper fits "well enough" there is very little difference between them, whatever they are made from.

    The other issue - "grinders / grinding texture" & "dosing / proper distribution" is way more important than the tamper anyway.

    I hope this helps.


    TampIt
    Last edited by TampIt; 1 Week Ago at 11:23 PM.
    topshot and LauriG like this.

  11. #11
    Member LauriG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Cairns, FNQ
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    G'day LauriG

    I have several Pullman 316 barista (old title) tampers. All "special orders" with the side of the tamper tapered to match the slope of the side of my VSTs (which makes a huge different to stray grounds not being an issue). Also, all of them have flat bases (critical for VSTs if you want to get the most extraction ratio out of them). None of them have tamping rings, as that just attracts grounds AFAIAC.

    IMO, using 316 means that static issues disappear - important to me, however honestly more "nice to have" than essential.

    As long as the tamper fits "well enough" there is very little difference between them, whatever they are made from.

    The other issue - "grinders / grinding texture" & "dosing / proper distribution" is way more important than the tamper anyway.

    I hope this helps.


    TampIt
    Thanks TampIt!

    Yes, very helpful. I'm having good shots but still too many shots prone to some channelling, often from the edge. I'm using Profitec T64 and to keep mess to the minimum, grindgin into a Rhino dosing cup first. It's taking a bit time to get a a good technique and reduce knocking and tapping etc. to minimum. The grind is not quite as fluffy as it appears on sales videos. (I wonder if sales people grind coarse just to get a fluffy look for the camera!?)

    I agree: "grinders / grinding texture" & "dosing / proper distribution" is more important than tamper. The best tools are no good if you don't know how to use them. I'll keep working on it. No shots wasted, though. I'm pumped up to the max. Cheers and thanks!

    LG - 10 shots a day keeps the doctor away.
    Last edited by LauriG; 1 Week Ago at 10:15 PM. Reason: typo
    simonsk8r likes this.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Rockingham W.A.
    Posts
    1,377
    Quote Originally Posted by LauriG View Post
    Thanks TampIt!

    Yes, very helpful. I'm having good shots but still too many shots prone to some channelling, often from the edge. I'm using Profitec T64 and to keep mess to the minimum, grindgin into a Rhino dosing cup first. It's taking a bit time to get a a good technique and reduce knocking and tapping etc. to minimum. The grind is not quite as fluffy as it appears on sales videos. (I wonder if sales people grind coarse just to get a fluffy look for the camera!?)

    I agree: "grinders / grinding texture" & "dosing / proper distribution" is more important than tamper. The best tools are no good if you don't know how to use them. I'll keep working on it. No shots wasted, though. I'm pumped up to the max. Cheers and thanks!

    LG - 10 shots a day keeps the doctor away.
    G'day LauriG

    Channelling - many thoughts / solutions / hypotheses about how to fix it.

    My "good for home use, not suitable for cafes" may be worth a try. Put about 3 to 4mm of "fluff" in the bottom of your basket and tamp it "dead level and very lightly" once. If the roast is problematic I often repeat until I get enough coffee fluff into the basket to do the shot. At the least, just fill the basket to the desired level and see if it improved the shot / reduces channelling. Oh, and never tap, knock or otherwise disturb the puck after the first tamp.

    Feel free to let me know if it makes a difference.

    TampIt
    10 shots a day - Wow, and I thought my "ancient history" of nine a day was a lot...

  13. #13
    Member LauriG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Cairns, FNQ
    Posts
    68
    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    G'day LauriG

    My "good for home use, not suitable for cafes" may be worth a try. Put about 3 to 4mm of "fluff" in the bottom of your basket and tamp it "dead level and very lightly" once. If the roast is problematic I often repeat until I get enough coffee fluff into the basket to do the shot. At the least, just fill the basket to the desired level and see if it improved the shot / reduces channelling. Oh, and never tap, knock or otherwise disturb the puck after the first tamp.
    Thanks TampIt! We've strayed a bit from the topic of grinds on the basket wall into general channeling... I think for the pleasure of spending money, I might go for a matching kit of Pullman basket & big step sometime in the future...

    Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. Interesting idea, I'll give it a shot. I thought it would be totally taboo to poke the holy tamper in for anything other than one clean, perfect stroke in and out at the end...;-)

    I changed from a 22g VST to a 18g VST (dose from 22g to 19g) and that seemed to help with flavour. I also - very reluctantly - took out the tooth pick and started doing a little WDT, followed by one single vertical knock to collapse. That made a good difference, resulting in very nice extractions, darker in colour, basket wetting evenly from first drop and centering very quickly to a nice stripey pour. I just don't like messing around with the tooth pick but whatever does the trick, eh.

    I like all the "good for home use, not suitable for cafes". In the cafes it seems to be all about speed. I would not survive a single hour!


    TampIt
    10 shots a day - Wow, and I thought my "ancient history" of nine a day was a lot...
    Okay... maybe I'm exaggerating just a little; 5-7 a day is more realistic. Because I have to work outside home....On days off 10 is easy done, but I don't always like that much!
    simonsk8r likes this.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •