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Thread: How much espresso in 180ml of cappuccino?

  1. #1
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    How much espresso in 180ml of cappuccino?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello fellow snobs,

    I have been quite happily making cappuccinos and espressos over the last few years with my Breville dual boiler and smart grinder. I recently upgraded to a Niche Zero grinder and began weighing my doses and espresso shots.

    After getting the Niche and a period of dialling in I can make a nice espresso, but my cappuccinos are far too weak.

    Then it occurred to me - am I just not using enough espresso? My cappuccino cups are 180ml. How much espresso should be in each cup? I have been dosing 19g and making 33g to 35g of espresso, split into 2 cups.

    The conventional definition of a cappuccino is 1/3 espresso, 1/3 milk and 1/3 froth. As my cups are 180ml does this mean I should be using double shots in each cup?

  2. #2
    Senior Member rusty888's Avatar
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    There isnít really a right answer.

    Sure those measurements in thirds was a general rule but your taste buds are up to you.

    It gets messy as most places may just do double shots as standard or are running 22g in which is more than you. So much is up to the basket size.

    I normally have 18g in 34g out in a 180ml cup (so no split like yours)

    My wife has it like you where itís split and I have that other half as an espresso to test the brew.

    I would perhaps try not splitting and if too strong either have patience and you will become use to it or alternatively try a 20-22g basket and split.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Have you tried increasing the yield of your espresso? Run the shot in the same amount of time but get more liquid out. It typically is slightly less enjoyable as an espresso to me, but in a cup largely diluted by milk the extra coffee helps. Given how easy the Niche it's to change settings you could have one setting you use for espresso and one for milk drinks.

    You could also look into VST baskets as they tend to work best at higher extraction % and will give you more flavour in the cup for the same amount of dry coffee in the basket.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    The wonderful thing about making your own coffees is that you can make them to your own personal taste.

    The 60/60/60 formula has too much weak coffee, too little milk and way too much froth -- for my liking.

    The 60 grams coffee derives from 2 shots of espresso, produced by a double of 14 grams of coffee as defined by the Italian espresso institute. They say 7 grams of grounds is a single and it should produce a whopping 30 grams in the cup.

    That's a 1:4.3 ratio. Way too weak, overextracted for me and probably most other Australian espresso drinkers.

    For milk drinks you could argue that you need a fairly hefty dose of intense espresso. Say 30 grams from a basket of 18 grams. Maybe 36 grams.

    Again....what suits your taste
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  5. #5
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    For milky coffee drinks, I always stuck to roughly 50g from 21-24g in...
    Made a nice rich flavoursome drink with little to no bitterness.

    Mal.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Mal, if only you could persuade my wife on your formula my life would be easier at breakfast. A 1:2 ratio of your quantity makes a lot of sense.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Have you tried increasing the yield of your espresso? Run the shot in the same amount of time but get more liquid out. It typically is slightly less enjoyable as an espresso to me, but in a cup largely diluted by milk the extra coffee helps.
    I've always been interested in this... but never actually looked into experimenting with it. Always had the same setting for both milk and espresso, but this makes sense. The WBC competitors have done this, different yields for the espresso and the milk portion of the comp. And even slightly different doses, I think they up the dose a tad for the milk-based, probably so to get a higher yield so it cuts though the milk more, ie taste it better through the milk

    One thing I worry about (... not lose sleep over haha), is by going a tad coarser and getting more yield in the same time, is that you extract too much bitterness at the end of the shot with the extra water pumping through, interested in your thoughts, or how to avoid this?
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  8. #8
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    I'll leave the persuasion part up to you mate...

    Mal.

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    Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I will try increasing the yield first, and if that fails I will try upping the dose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    For milky coffee drinks, I always stuck to roughly 50g from 21-24g in...
    Made a nice rich flavoursome drink with little to no bitterness.

    Mal.
    Is that for 2 cups of milky drinks?

  10. #10
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    No mate, each...
    Family members, relos, friends and acquaintances regularly commented how great the coffee was; not just my opinion.

    Mal.
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  11. #11
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    They say 7 grams of grounds is a single and it should produce a whopping 30 grams in the cup...

    ...what suits your taste
    Actually INEI says 25ml including froth (Their term not mine.), which seeing as they use a goodly amount of Robusta in their certified espresso blend is a goodly amount, not 30g.


    Java "Yup, what he said. What suits your taste!" phile
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    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

  12. #12
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    I've always been interested in this... but never actually looked into experimenting with it. Always had the same setting for both milk and espresso, but this makes sense. The WBC competitors have done this, different yields for the espresso and the milk portion of the comp. And even slightly different doses, I think they up the dose a tad for the milk-based, probably so to get a higher yield so it cuts though the milk more, ie taste it better through the milk

    One thing I worry about (... not lose sleep over haha), is by going a tad coarser and getting more yield in the same time, is that you extract too much bitterness at the end of the shot with the extra water pumping through, interested in your thoughts, or how to avoid this?
    Unless you're already pushing extraction to high % numbers, and assuming an even extraction, there'll be more you can get out before the bitterness comes. I would encourage you to try this exercise: https://youtu.be/2aD33p4_fJo. You'll notice that there is a period after we would normally stop the shot but before noticeable bitterness that is a bit nothing in terms of flavour. As long as you stop the shot before the nothing ends and the bitterness begins you're all good. Any extra flavour you can get in that "nothing" period will cut through the milk more. Since it's getting diluted by milk anyway you may as well get more coffee flavours diluted with water.

    If you haven't experimented all I can say is do!
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Cappuccino for me = 18 grams in, approx 30ml shot (I don't weigh or measure shots) steamed milk to taste.

    Experiment! to each his own.

  14. #14
    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    what's your basket rated at? i'd be starting at 20g in 40g out split between two 180ml cappuccino cups.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    What happened to the 30mls thing?

  16. #16
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullo View Post
    What happened to the 30mls thing?

    G'day Sullo, it's right there in post 13, seriously though, it really is very much a matter of taste.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    G'day Sullo, it's right there in post 13, seriously though, it really is very much a matter of taste.
    Ah cool missed that cheers
    Shrugs i use that as a yardstick an go from there

  18. #18
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Unless you're already pushing extraction to high % numbers, and assuming an even extraction, there'll be more you can get out before the bitterness comes. I would encourage you to try this exercise: https://youtu.be/2aD33p4_fJo. You'll notice that there is a period after we would normally stop the shot but before noticeable bitterness that is a bit nothing in terms of flavour. As long as you stop the shot before the nothing ends and the bitterness begins you're all good. Any extra flavour you can get in that "nothing" period will cut through the milk more. Since it's getting diluted by milk anyway you may as well get more coffee flavours diluted with water.

    If you haven't experimented all I can say is do!
    Ahhh I see... thanks mate very informative! Makes perfect sense. I'm big on experimenting, just never experimented on this aspect, I shall!



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