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Thread: Warning signs for a bad cafe

  1. #1
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    Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    In the last month I was fortunate enough to visit Brisbane and also Canberra. That was great but I was travelling light and had to search for a decent coffee at local cafes in both places.

    I was amazed at the absolute cr@p standards in the vast majority of cafes that I visited, which numbered around 20 in all. It was largely an exercise in frustration finding a good coffee.

    One of the worst cups came from a newish La Marzocco machine! It was like someone having a Ferrari and crunching gears. Rather than look for the type of machine used, I learnt to look for things that the professionals were doing wrong.

    The biggest tip-offs for a reason not to even bother was:-
    *plenty of ground coffee in the doser. I saw two cafes closing down for the evening and they were grinding the coffee to fill the doser for the next morning!!! I kid you not!!
    *dried milk on the frothing wands.

    What other tip-offs alert fellow Coffeesnobs to try elsewhere?





    This was enough to put me off even trying the coffee there.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lizzie's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    One of the worst cups came from a newish La Marzocco machine! It was like someone having a Ferrari and crunching gears. Rather than look for the type of machine used, I learnt to look for things that the professionals were doing wrong.
    we had a lovely breakfast "out" ... with average coffee, which was disappointing, as i had seen that they had a beautiful 3gp LM on the bench...
    the totally overworked barista (making coffee and managing the waitstaff at the same time...) dosed, knocked, dosed, levelled with the lid of the grinder, tamped "somewhat", then knocked the tamper against the side of the PF so the grinds flew everywhere, then tamped again lightly and polished... when she then turned the PF over to get rid of the loose grinds, the whole puck fell out, and she had to start again ::).
    because i had asked for a small double shot latte (and it had good microfoam) the coffee tasted reasonable, although still slightly over-extracted...
    still, the location was brilliant, the food was good, and it was lovely to be out and about. :)

    L

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    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Wandered into a cafe (Sydeys outer south western suburbs) that I seemed to recall used to get a lot of coffee trade.

    No one was in it and they seemed surprised they had a customer. One girl scooping lots of ground coffee into bags (from a Ditting grinder).

    Asked the lady behind the counter if she would be able to make a small double latte.
    Blank look, blink blink - "A what?" - small double latte? "Ahh...OK". Picked up a cold single basket PF, opened a tupperware container and began scooping out pre-ground coffee.

    Ahh, on second thoughts, Ive changed my mind, and backed out of the cafe shuddering. (Still gives me the heeby jeebies!)

    Obviously the business had been sold.

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    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizzi link=1201913196/0#1 date=1201926717
    levelled with the lid of the grinder,
    What did you say!? :o :o :o

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Is it just me or do other people find this off putting?When you go to a cafe ask for a latte or a cappucino and they have 2 jugs ready 1 has steamed milk the other has foam I find this bad form.
    The other thing is when they leave the spent coffee in the porta filter, knock it out when yours is being made without flushing the shower screen with hot water yuk!

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    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Yes............unless it is an outlet that I know will serve a good coffee I have started having a black tea rather than suffering stale, diluted dish water. When I am at shopping centres I walk around food courts and watch coffee being produced and the bad practices carried out by these establishments and cant wait to go home and have a decent java.
    See what being a CSer has done to me!!!

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    The instant which sits upon the shelves

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    pre-ground decaf kept in a tupperware container :P

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#7 date=1202030660
    pre-ground decaf kept in a tupperware container :P
    not everyone has the luxury for a decaf grinder....not enough decaf volume for most places to justify another $800ish for a mazzer mini. And I dont think spending $200 on a Sunbeam grinder "cuts it".

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    I went to the shops today and walked past a cafe thats reasonable and even has Jamaica Blue, though they grind out of a rocky thats not dialed in properly, then around the corner is CBD which uses Di Bella coffee, and Jimmyb works there a few days a week.. good to have a snob behind the machine, and both had 10 or so customers each then I get to GJ and they have 25 cust. and there coffee tastes terrible... I guess its better to be seen at certain places than it is to have good coffee.

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    When the milk is "textured" but sounds like a wounded/dying pig (Nooooooo - set the pig free !)

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1201913196/0#8 date=1202034325
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#7 date=1202030660
    pre-ground decaf kept in a tupperware container *:P
    not everyone has the luxury for a decaf grinder....not enough decaf volume for most places to justify another $800ish for a mazzer mini. And I dont think spending $200 on a Sunbeam grinder "cuts it".
    I dont accept that at all. Since when is a grinder a luxury when you run a cafe? Especially when charging $3.50. A jolly for $650 would not be such a big outlay and do the job.

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Agree, Dennis. A decaf customer has as much right to expect and get a properly made coffee as any other customer. If the cafe serves decaf, it should be equipped to do so irrespective of costs.

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    Senior Member Sketchy's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#11 date=1202036287
    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1201913196/0#8 date=1202034325
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#7 date=1202030660
    pre-ground decaf kept in a tupperware container *:P
    not everyone has the luxury for a decaf grinder....not enough decaf volume for most places to justify another $800ish for a mazzer mini. And I dont think spending $200 on a Sunbeam grinder "cuts it".
    I dont accept that at all. *Since when is a grinder a luxury when you run a cafe? *Especially when charging $3.50. *A jolly for $650 would not be such a big outlay and do the job.

    Hi all
    I agree with Dennis there, i only do 5-6 kg a week and about 300-400grams decaf a week but i still have 2 $900 grinders. I dont see that as expensive but absolutely necessary. if i turned over more then i would love a mazzer. ::)
    Though i will admit that when i first opened i only had 1 grinder and had pre ground decaf, then after learning more and speaking to different roasters i got the second grinder and now i would not have it any other way.

    LE

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    a synopsis, if i may...

    1. brown, crusty "milk" on steam wand
    2. no tamp / token uneven "tamp up on the grinder" tamp
    3. young, pimply faced "barista" (i know this is an over-generalisation, and ive seen videos of young ones making some decent shots, however as a general rule...)
    4. gran / pa "barista" (ibid.)
    5. no post-steam blast and wipe of da steam pipe
    6. the "no-look coz I dont know what to look for anyway" pour
    7. barista: "oh, im not quite sure what brand of machine this is..."
    8. milk in jug (and your latte) now lukewarm; five minutes ago was super boiled
    9.
    10.
    11.
    12.
    13.

    lets finsh off the list and then it can be printed out and laminated and kept in wallets / purses for quick reminders about what is important to us just prior to walking into a new establishment. its not that we dont know this stuff in our heads and hearts, but sometimes the burning desire for some java overrides our logical, wise mind, and may, in fact, cause some serious medium to long term damage to our sensitive palates...

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#11 date=1202036287
    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1201913196/0#8 date=1202034325
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#7 date=1202030660
    pre-ground decaf kept in a tupperware container :P
    not everyone has the luxury for a decaf grinder....not enough decaf volume for most places to justify another $800ish for a mazzer mini. And I dont think spending $200 on a Sunbeam grinder "cuts it".
    I dont accept that at all. Since when is a grinder a luxury when you run a cafe? Especially when charging $3.50. A jolly for $650 would not be such a big outlay and do the job.
    Spot on Dennis!

    I dare say that a $200 Sunbeam is a much better option than preground! It would at least offer freshly ground on demand...

    Im not suggestion that a Sunbeam grinder is a good idea for a cafe though...

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Yeah, one thing I noticed the other day is that I went into a cafe near where I work that serves up Tobys, and it kind of threw me when I noticed that they had an EM0480 for their decaf. I asked them what was the story with that (implying that its surely sub-standard), and they said that it was the grinder Tobys supplied for the decaf. .... Glad i dont dont drink decaf too often (I cant even remember the last time I did....)

    YeeZa

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#11 date=1202036287
    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1201913196/0#8 date=1202034325
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#7 date=1202030660
    pre-ground decaf kept in a tupperware container :P
    not everyone has the luxury for a decaf grinder....not enough decaf volume for most places to justify another $800ish for a mazzer mini. And I dont think spending $200 on a Sunbeam grinder "cuts it".
    I dont accept that at all. Since when is a grinder a luxury when you run a cafe? Especially when charging $3.50. A jolly for $650 would not be such a big outlay and do the job.
    Ok lets look at it like this. Decaf is sold to cafes for much more than their regular blend of caffienated coffee. Lets ignore this part for now...say they make $3 net profit (excluding paying bills, wages and other overheads etc), you will need to make over 200 decaf coffees to recoup your money on the grinder. Over 200 cups of decaf....that will probably take me 1 year to do, I make probably 1 cup of decaf, if that per day. Considering most cafes have free on loan machine and grinder, why pay for another grinder? Thats the mindset of many cafe owners...they have much bigger problems to deal with than one cup of decaf a day.

    Ive worked at many places that have done 20kg/week, 90kg/week and even 120kg/week of coffee....decaf made up less than 1% of the volume.

    Everyone at the end of the day has other priorities...decaf I would imagine would be the last of their problems. And it would be very unfair to damn a cafe and/or an excellent barista because his boss hasnt splashed money on a decaf grinder.

  19. #19
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    hmm....My thoughts are a little different...

    Given that most cafes are on supply agreements/contracts, if the supplying companies had integrity and truely cared about their product being served well, theyd be insisting that they supply a grinder with decaf.

    We all know that equipment is factored into the per kilo buy price for those on freebie agreements...

    No excuses not to have a dedicated, correctly adjusted decaf grinder IMHO.

    Chris

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Yeah good call David. Its interesting to see it from another perspective like that. thanks for sharing that. Its definitely one of those, "Well, if you put it that way..." instances.
    In the meantime I have strolled up to the local Tobys outlet again and asked them how much decaf they actually churn out - and Dave youre spot on - they get about 1 or 2 a day, and its a regular (who, they inform me) isnt the snobbiest of coffee drinkers, and seem satisfied with what the EM0480 grinds out.
    And its not necessarily a sign of a bad cafe if they have one there for their decaf, IMO. This place up the road punches out a solid, acceptable caffeinated coffee.

    YZa

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1201913196/15#18 date=1202087893
    We all know that equipment is factored into the per kilo buy price for those on freebie agreements...
    Chris
    Too true...if only most places knew how much money theyre hemmoraging on contracts like that. They should bite the bullet...spend $10,000 on machine and 2 grinders and be done with it. That way you own the machines for life, and pay cheaper prices for coffee

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1201913196/15#20 date=1202088688
    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1201913196/15#18 date=1202087893
    We all know that equipment is factored into the per kilo buy price for those on freebie agreements...
    Chris
    Too true...if only most places knew how much money theyre hemmoraging on contracts like that. They should bite the bullet...spend $10,000 on machine and 2 grinders and be done with it. That way you own the machines for life, and pay cheaper prices for coffee
    ...thankyou! ;) ;D

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1201913196/15#18 date=1202087893
    We all know that equipment is factored into the per kilo buy price for those on freebie agreements...
    At 1/2 kg of decaf per week for 50 weeks, the supplying companies would have to charge an extra $32 per kg of decaf to cover the cost of an $800 mazzer mini in a year:

    50 weeks * 1/2kg = 25 kilos/year
    $800/25 = $32

    If you want to incorporate the cost into the overall cost of coffee, a 10kg/week cafe (including decaf) would be paying an extra $1.60/kg to cover the cost of an $800 mini in a year:

    50 weeks * 10kg = 500 kg/year
    $800/500 = $1.60

    It strikes me that either one of those scenarios could easily render a coffee company uncompetitive in the eyes of a cafe owner who doesnt really give a damn about coffee. IMHO, I think that the onus is best placed on the cafe owners to make the decision. Baby steps - lets get them on to fresh coffee first, then when they see the increase in business and customer satisfaction over the stale crap that they used to be using, the sales reps can bring up the idea of buying a grinder.

    Personally, I think that the whole price per kg model ought to be as transparent as possible. Transparency is a selling point to even the most cynical, money-hungry cafe owner. However, you cant use transparency to get a decaf grinder into a cafe until the cafe owner appreciates the merits of fresh regular coffee and they might well never appreciate the merits of fresh regular coffee unless it is as price-competitive as possible.

    I agree that it would be great to see a decaf grinder in every cafe, but I think that getting fresh coffee into every cafe is a higher priority, and if that means stale decaf, so be it. Id rather have a cafe serving fresh regular coffee and stale decaf than stale regular coffee and stale decaf.

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    I agree with everything you have said Luca...

    Big companies have marketing budgets and this is where a dedicated decaf grinder can come in.

    If its good for the brand and public perception of the brand, there has to be some justification for outlaying the $$$.

    Id be much happier to see a K3T as a dedicated decaf grinder than stale stuff out of tupperware which would imply lack of interest by both the coffee supllier and the cafe operator. The decaf custoimer deserves respect too- even if I wouldnt drink the stuff. ::)

    Sometimes you gotta spend the bucks ;)

    Chris

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Just one minor question/comment I believe may effect those careful calculations...

    Do you think supplying companies (and lets face it, were talking about some big players here) pay retail prices for a grinder? I dont.

    Disclaimer: Its not me thats the one who drinks decaf! ::) :P

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Some of the signs I have seen have already been mentioned such as portafilter not rinsed or wiped between coffees, showersceen not flushed, milk being heated after being wand being placed in jug and barista not being present, milk added to old milk that was sitting(a la *bucks) after last coffee, skim milk being used when I asked for a latte or flat white(if I wanted skim milk I would have asked).

    I used to pay attention to the machine before ordering(and I still do), but I no longer assume that someone behind a LM or Synesso is going to make a good coffee because of the equipment. I also saw some very questionable tamping techniques last year at a cafe chain when I was waiting for the Christmas Pageant to go past. The coffee was terrible.

    I remember reading something where someone said to observe the barista while they make a couple of coffees before you buy. Obviously we dont all have time for this and are really after a coffee. I normally try to try new places. Some places I just wont go to as they look like they arent serious about coffee. It is just a hunch.

    It also helps with a barista is handy when you want a coffee from a coffee shop. I went to a decent place in Adelaide who seem serious about their coffee and ordered a flat white. I had to wait about 8 mins(I was the only one waiting) and I only had 45 mins for lunch inc. the drive there and back. A young guy told me he was unable to make coffee and the person who made the coffee was on the phone. Not cool to have 3 people working in a coffee shop(not cafe) and only one being able to make coffee.

    I had one of the worst coffee experiences ever last year at a new place that opened up in Adelaide. Too many negatives and the worst part was that the coffee was bad.

    I have read enough things to know what a lot of places can do to improve their cafes. It comes down to training, quality, pride and seriousness to name a few. And obviously the right practices.

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Excellent posy Donnas650. The last 2 sentences say it all really.

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1201913196/15#22 date=1202119584
    I agree that it would be great to see a decaf grinder in every cafe, but I think that getting fresh coffee into every cafe is a higher priority, and if that means stale decaf, so be it. Id rather have a cafe serving fresh regular coffee and stale decaf than stale regular coffee and stale decaf.

    Cheers,

    Luca
    cant agree with you there luca - to me its gotta be the complete package or not at all...

  29. #29
    Senior Member Sketchy's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1201913196/15#17 date=1202087282
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#11 date=1202036287
    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1201913196/0#8 date=1202034325
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#7 date=1202030660
    pre-ground decaf kept in a tupperware container *:P
    not everyone has the luxury for a decaf grinder....not enough decaf volume for most places to justify another $800ish for a mazzer mini. And I dont think spending $200 on a Sunbeam grinder "cuts it".
    I dont accept that at all. *Since when is a grinder a luxury when you run a cafe? *Especially when charging $3.50. *A jolly for $650 would not be such a big outlay and do the job.
    Ok lets look at it like this. Decaf is sold to cafes for much more than their regular blend of caffienated coffee. Lets ignore this part for now...say they make $3 net profit (excluding paying bills, wages and other overheads etc), you will need to make over 200 decaf coffees to recoup your money on the grinder. Over 200 cups of decaf....that will probably take me 1 year to do, I make probably 1 cup of decaf, if that per day. Considering most cafes have free on loan machine and grinder, why pay for another grinder? Thats the mindset of many cafe owners...they have much bigger problems to deal with than one cup of decaf a day.

    Ive worked at many places that have done 20kg/week, 90kg/week and even 120kg/week of coffee....decaf made up less than 1% of the volume.

    Everyone at the end of the day has other priorities...decaf I would imagine would be the last of their problems. And it would be very unfair to damn a cafe and/or an excellent barista because his boss hasnt splashed money on a decaf grinder.
    Hi
    As a cafe owner i have to say that as mentioned earlier i have 2 grinders, i grind fresh to order both decaf and regular, i own all my own equipment (youd be crazy to sign a contract), and i only turn out 6 kgs a week of regular & under 1/2kg decaf. I dont know where you get your pricing from as i have always paid the same for decaf as regular, except for once when i tried organic.
    It all boils down to a love of good coffee whether its decaf or regular, we should only serve what we would drink ourselves.
    I would never sell stale bread because i only like rolls why would i sell stale decaf if i only drink regular.

    LE

    PS I say support the cafes that truely love coffee & forget the ones that only pretend they do

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Well said Le I bet you will find a clean wand and not so full doser in Go. cafe Goomalling W.A. :)

    We have a bakery here that has a Boema single group. The porta filter handle is NEVER taken out of its group. The coffee is made with instant and whole machine just used to heat/foam/fry/RUIN the milk.

    One should always look for a grinder.

    its funny the same guy ones the only other bakery and it has the works...makes OK coffee.....</me wonders about some ppl>

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    Just call me 3 flat whites

    Today I went to order 3 coffees from a regular haunt and discovered two new faces driving the coffee machine instead of the usual familiar face that we have grown to rely on, for a half decent coffee in this particular mall. *

    After watching one of the young girls make a coffee for the person in front of me, a sense of urgency came over me,..to increase the distance between myself and the coffee maker. *

    The two milk jugs were nothing short of revolting, the caked on gunge in and around the jugs,.and on the thermometers was tempting,..but nah I just wasnt up for a dose of micro-organisms with my coffee today thanks. And.. mmm mmm.. scoop some unknown ground from a dirty tin into a filllllllllllllthy portafilter (makes vomit noises),. finger the grounds on top of the portafilter,.. dont tamp at all *:o and pour the shot. Yummmmy ::) No thanks. "yooohooo girrrrrls???,..Have ya done this before???"

    Off around the corner I ran,..to what I thought at the time was the only other coffee shop in the immediate area (did a recky after and found two more for next time). It was a GJs cafe. I ordered 3 flat whites to take away (lonnnnnnnng walk back to tables we were sitting at) and as I handed the money over for them,. I heard an ear piercing shrill from the young girl(read rabid banchee woman) who was making the coffees as she shouted on the top of her lungs in her delightful *:-? *high pitched voice *>:( to the tables outside of the cafe and into the mall..." Order for Suzaaaaaaaaaaaane!!!!" * It gave me such a fright because I was right next to her and my right ear copped the full volume of it and it was ringing,.. in my annoyance before I could stop myself,..I said in a loud angry voice,.OH... MY... GOD...!!! YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!! What kind of service is that??" *The girl I handed my money over to said,."Oh we have to yell really loud for them to hear out there sometimes" *Um helloooo? Have you heard of table service or buzzers???,..do ya think this might annoy your customers sitting inside?? *I looked around the cafe at the customers sitting at tables inside (some were reading and got a fright too),..there were heads shaking and looks of astonishment all round.

    Sooh,.. then the girl taking my order asked me for my name and after what Id just heard,..I imagined hearing my name screamed into the mall by a rabid banchee woman and said,.."um,... I dont think so,...... three flat whites"

    While waiting close by,.. in the hope of gesturing to the banchee that I am three flat whites to save her voice and our ears of further damage,.. I watched the coffee making process and ack.... please change your cloth more often,.. putting that filthy black(from coffee) cloth into the portafilter where my coffee is about to be poured through is a huuuge turn-off. *The coffee tasted ok,.. but I couldnt get that dirty cloth out of my mind. *note to self,.. never go there again*

    I dont know what I prefer,.. the first cafe just banged the portafilter (no wipe out) and into the wet and dirty portafilter the next lot of grounds were dumped,.... or a wipe ( 1 sec sweep rather) with a dirty black cloth.

    Oh my!!.... I am such a snob.. I must be... I cannot help noticing all this stuff now,.. being a coffee snob is tough,.. I am enjoying coffee out less and less.


  32. #32
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    You are not on your own there, I tend to drink oj and black tea when out unless I know the outlet produces good java. Most cafes are food outlets with coffee as an afterthought served by part-time high school kids with little or no training, it is such a relief to get home to Silvia and her wonderful nectar!!!

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    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by greenman link=1201913196/30#31 date=1202630039
    You are not on your own there, I tend to drink oj and black tea when out unless I know the outlet produces good java. Most cafes are food outlets with coffee as an afterthought served by part-time high school kids with little or no training.
    Aar so true.. I never thought of it like that. Hmmm...I might have to adopt your way of ordering too me thinks...thanks for the insight on both accounts.

  34. #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    1

    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Quote Originally Posted by Remy link=1201913196/30#32 date=1202640328
    Quote Originally Posted by greenman link=1201913196/30#31 date=1202630039
    You are not on your own there, I tend to drink oj and black tea when out unless I know the outlet produces good java. Most cafes are food outlets with coffee as an afterthought served by part-time high school kids with little or no training.
    Aar so true.. I never thought of it like that. *Hmmm...I might have to adopt your way of ordering too me thinks...thanks for the insight on both accounts.
    Hi
    Why say most cafes when only some is true.
    ALL cafes i go to serve good coffee, ( sorry GREAT coffee )
    If you want good coffee be prepared to look for it and pay for it, dont expect it to just be there. i wish every cafe *made great coffee but they dont, which makes it better when you find the perfect cup. we could all make everything better at home, but then we would never go out.


    PS id be willing to travel 2 hours for a good coffee.

  35. #35
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    10,496

    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    "Most" is more correct than "some".

    All cafes I regularly go to serve great coffee too.
    I dont frequent cafes that dont.

  36. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    790

    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    most recent never again experience (and this IS quite snobbish):
    local to my work, i had seen a beautiful deep red LM FB80 (im pretty sure, but def a LM). me heart pounded harder and my mind became singally focussed on what i thought was to be great espresso close to work....but as the story goes...

    me: could i have a doppio ristretto, please
    girl at counter: (puzzled, asks next counter guy)
    counter guy also puzzled whispers to barista who then turns to me:
    "sorry what were you after?"
    me: ibid"
    barista guy starts calculating in front of me: "ok, doppio, double..thats 15mls, double, so 30ml...so two shots, right?
    me (increasingly concerned) um, just a double ristretto
    counter guy then asks mr barista how to charge me, and barista guy keeps counting to himself and starts filling pf
    charge him for two drinks
    i start to make noises about not wanting to pay for two drinks when im only ordering one, but get cut off and informed of the charge.
    $4.50 later (HOLY CRAP), i sip a fairly average ristretto while mr barista and counter guy smirk and whisper cant believe he paid $4.50 for THAT (ok, i didnt actually hear that, but I just knew...)

    so, one MORE cafe crossed off the ever-growing list of never again cafes.
    lessons learnt (again, the hard way): FB80 does not necessarily mean good coffee...



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