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Thread: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

  1. #1
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    The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Whilst I am over the moon with my new Giotto and ECM grinder, I have a general gripe and I sense that there will be some that share my views on this.

    From the outset, let me say that I am absolutely in love with my new toys - they are producing results that I could only have dreamed about previously - and I know that our freshly roasted beans are in many ways responsible. *But.......

    A coffee machine with a retail price of about $2500 comes with a crappy plastic tamper thats the wrong size, no brushes and no blind filter. *Wouldnt it be nice if these were part of the deal? - No doubt they are offered by some retailers, but I really think they should be in the box - and paid for by ECM.

    I ordered a group head brush, Duralex glasses, some cups, a blind filter and a beautiful stainless 58mm tamper from Coffee Parts on Thursday night last week and they arrived this morning. *What terrific people they are to deal with.

    The new tamper works a treat - and I wouldnt expect something of this quality to come as a "free" inclusion, but fair dinkum. *Why the &*$# *are ECM (and others?) putting a 50mm piece of garbage in with a machine that (obviously) has an e-61 group head with 58mm baskets? *It looks as if its been made with recycled Bic biro caps.

    It shouldnt be the responsibility of the retailer/wholesaler to give these items to their customers - but why the &*#% should we pay for them when theyre essential for the general performance and maintenance of the machine. *What do other HX machines come with?
    Any comments?

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    It could be worse - it could be like a car where you would have to take it back to the dealer for a service/back flush!

    My machine came with the plastic tamper as well.

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    My $599 Sunbeam came with everything but a brush. Yippee! 8-)

    Most expensive machines wont come with those items but the retailer throws it in most of the time. I know Danes in Brookvale do. You also get a course that teaches you to make the most of that particular machine.

    Have to shop around for a good offer and best service, I suppose. :)

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Our machine came with the usual cheap plastic tamper that does fit, and a blind filter. Also came with hoses for plumbing, as well as a length of hose for the drip tray. We bought brushes, a stainless steel tamp, a 600ml frothing jug and detergent.

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Like everyone else I could not believe the undersized plastic tamper which came with the Silvia. That was months ago. Now, Im changing my mind. At the risk of opening up old threads (and wounds) its not the material from which it is made that counts, but the pressure applied to that material.

    I alternate between my homemade wooden one, and the plastic one. They do the job, and thats what counts.

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Id tend to agree, Robusto - nearly two years of living with a plastic tamp for the sunbeam, I was getting really good results with the plastic tamp/scoop.

    With the expobar and a slightly more expensive s/s tamp ($27, a mm too small), Im getting more channelling ... but the shots taste better!

    So, you can get really good results with a plastic tamp - its harder work though. Having a heavy s/s tamp that fits perfectly makes things so much easier.

  7. #7
    joe
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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    I agree with mattyj. Theres a lot to be said for the pressure you exert on the tamp. Ive used a crappy plastic one for nearly 20 years. It seems to do the job. The other tamps certainly look nice - I might even succomb one day..... ;)

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Yes, a case of: If its talked about in awe, is shiny, made from solid stainless steel, and is expensive -- then it must be a superior toy-- er, essential piece of equipment which no self-respecting amateur domestic barrista can do without.

    As for other dissuasive negatives, like wood is a repository for bacteria, so dont get a wooden tamper.... Generations of my family (including mois) should be dead from wooden bread boards, mortar and pestles, butchers blocks and..... not to mention laminated wooden bench tops.


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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1124692273/0#7 date=1124706209
    Yes, a case of: If its talked about in awe, is shiny, made from solid stainless steel, and is expensive -- then it must be a superior toy-- er, essential piece of equipment which no self-respecting amateur domestic barrista can do without.
    Robusto - I totally agree with you. My objection to the tamper that came with my machine is that its a 50mm one when it should be 58mm. Id happily live with it if it was the right size. I think that when it comes to tampers size matters - probably not much else does apart from whatever turns people on aesthetically. Someone was selling a Silvia here not so long ago with a portafilter with a turned wooden handle. Not to my taste, certainly (in fact Id go so far as to say it was one of the nastiest things Id ever seen :o )- and I dare say it made no difference to the quality of shots the machine was producing. Unless it was Rosewood, (for some reason the most revered material for fetish tamper handles) - and I dont think it was 8-)

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Contrary to popular belief, wood is not a bacterial haven. The wood contains tanins which are a natural inhibitor to bacterial growth. As long as the wood is dry, the tanins do their job very well. Wood becomes a problem when it is used consistently wet. Since the wood is porous, it does absorb things like blood, and other fluids. Since the tamper is never in contact with - god forbid - uncooked meat, poultry, or fish, there is nothing wrong with using wooden ones.

    Youd be more likely to come across mould on a wooden tamper than bacteria, who knows...it may even add some flavour to the shot :P

  11. #11
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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Just used my wooden tamper on a SO Colombian. *Tasted... meaty, kinda fowl, with just an essence of barramundi, and a rich blood-red body. * :-[

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    If grilled, it might go well with a bearnaise sauce.

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Gentlemen,

    yes I think it should be up to the manufacturer....

    However, if the manufacturer hasnt coffed up, its the importers responsibility (I think), to make it so.

    My Diadema Juniors & Unico Splendors come with the blind, the group brush, CORRECT SIZED (there are some that arent) doser spoon, 2 group handles & deep commercial filters, owner booklet...but they have been coming in with the stupid undersized tamper.

    I will agree...its not the fact its plastic (my best tamper is plastic)...its the fact that it is the wrong size, and out by a mile not a millimeter! So....I have begged the manufacturer to make them the correct size (and a little less flimsy) in the latest consignment of machines (arriving this week)....we will see what the cat drags in when they arrive. If he hasnt, I will have to take steps.....

    There are other issues to "understand".

    The manufacturers dont necessarily take seriously that anyone is actually going to use some of the stuff provided...eg the doser spoon and the tamper...they fully expect you are going to use a doser grinder with fixed tamp on the grinder...thats what they do. I am not "apologising" for them, just stating the fact.

    The other issue is that of individual "deals". Some people "steal" the machine off their vendor, in which case they get what they get. The client that goes a little easier, pays the full or close to RRP, gets the pre delivery service, atleast an hours instruction, and usually walks away with a nice tamper, a milk jug, thermometer and a kilo or 2 of coffee beans...so it depends on what kind of hard ball the client wants to play.... people who steal the machine, often just get a machine in a box without some nice extras, sometimes without a pre delivery service, and have to go home and set up themselves and go through a very painful and slow period of "am I doing this right", and "why doesnt this work properly" because they actually did themsleves out of the after sales service.....nuthins for nuthin, cause and effect!

    Now I am waiting with anticipation to see what kind of tamper my manufacturer has provided this time....

    Hope this all helps.


    Regardz,
    FC.

    PS.....I am not inferring any of you "stole" your equipment *:) , although if you secured good deals, well good for you. I am merely stating the general case.

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    FC:

    It seems to be an italian tradition to supply an undersize plastic tamper worth 50 cents with their expensive espresso machines.

    It does perplex me though. It is a good opportunity to supply a lovely tamper with their logo on it.

    Grant

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Yes Grant, I agree entirely. *Our "good" tampers have our logo lasered on! The client never forgets...just like they never forget the original crappy undersized tamper supplied in the box.

    Ive asked them ( the manufacturers) why they do this...youll never get an answer that makes sense. So for this consignment I told them what I wanted...and well see what the outcome is.

    Mind you, the tamper is nothing more than a little thorn in the side of not much consequence as I think most people go chasing something stylish that they like...not supplying a blind filter would be inexcusable, suppying an incorrectky sized doser spoon would be more than STUPID. Group brushes are a relatively new phenomenon, so a manufacturer that supplies one is "thoughtful", one that doesnt can still be excused at this point.

    Mind you except for the blind filter I dont think these are strictly *"necessary"
    just nice....probably more of a tradition to supply something....anything to the client.

    S0 whats next....should we place a cleaning brush in with all grinders? That would be a nice, thoughtful touch but once again...unnecessary!


    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    El Espresso

    Dont knock the Wooden handle on that Sylvia unless you actually got to use it, I made it and it was made to suit the hands of the person who owned the Machine. The timer handle was just a nice little addition to their machine to ofset so much Metal and plastic. ;) (modified so as not to offend --wasnt my intent to ...sorry el espresso) :D

    Timber Tampers I have one here from the Sixties that was used in our Families Café in France and to this day the Tamper is still being used, Apart from a few bumps etc it still works well........ Tannins are indeed a very good inhibitor of Germs, plastics etc in your kitchen are also known to harbour germs etc as well.......

    A thought for the day

    Timber is a Natural Product and is unprocessed
    Coffee is a natural product/ fresh is unprocessed

    We all have different tastes, why do you drive the car you drive and I drive the car I drive?...... If we all had the same tastes Life would be very boring.



    FB :)

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    FB -
    At no stage have I implied that wooden tampers are bad. Especially if theyre the right size.
    As for a wooden portafilter handle. My point was the same one that you made - of course we have different tastes - What one person finds a thing of beauty is the opposite to someone else.

    The thread took a turn towards wood when Robusto (I think it was) pointed out quite reasonably that many of the things we covet or want or buy are more about the way they look rather than what they do.

    e e

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    And finally.....new consignment of machines has been unpacked and the manufacturer HAS included a better tamper as per my request!

    Its still an inexpensive plastic item...but it will do the job (where the other would not).

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Welldone, FC, its great to see you have influence with manufacturers. They should be responsive to feedback like you gave them.

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    I have dealt with quite a few different manufacturers over the years and this one is by the best I have ever come across...

    He didnt break the regular production run, the machines still came in with the tamper that they always supply, but for us he included a carton full of much better tampers (that were specially procured for us but not charged) and placed it in with the rest of the consignment. Every time we unpack a machine or despatch one, we have to change the tampers over!

    But no matter, he did what we asked...and he has been doing this for the 4 years we have been dealing with him...weve asked him to do a number of minor modifications for the machines he builds for us over the period, and each time he has complied. This is good for our clients,m and its good for m/\/him as a manufacturer...running R & D on the basis of comments from his importers / agents who are in the field!

    Too bad some other manufactureres dont adopt the same attitude.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Being new to this new world of coffee, Im not surprised that you seem to have to pay for the extras that make a difference.

    With most things nowadays, the manufacturer provides a very basic package and its either you or the supplier that supplements this. I guess this keeps costs down but also provides you with the choice to make a difference. I have only owned my Rancilio Lucy for less than a week but my head is already swimming with custom tampers, modifications to grinders/machines, bang-bank boxes... the list goes on!

    At the end of the day, its part of the fun to accessorise and tweak... and thats what coffee (and sites like this) are all about isnt it?

    David

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    I agree, its poor form on such expensive hardware. I came close to buying a Giotto this week but went instead for the BZ99S Classic. Doesnt look nearly as good as the Giotto but I cant complain about how it works, at least not yet! It also comes standard with a cheap looking plastic tamper. Fortunately, the supplier, Barazi in Brisbane (Jack) threw in a few "nice bits" with the deal including a gorgeous (& very heavy) SS tamper (not branded), jug, knock box, training, etc. He was extremely helpful & whilst I might not have paid the absolute lowest rock bottom price for the BZ99 & Rocky, I believe I got a reasonable deal. Moreover, the extras & three odd hours I spent talking to him (& several cups of excellent coffee!) count for something with me. Its called service.

    Cheers
    Tony

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    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Well said zlatrox,

    And by the way.... Welcome to CoffeeSnobs [smiley=thumbsup.gif].
    Service, as an entity, seems to be getting relegated by more and more consumers to the status of "Optional" as the never -ending search for the absolute rock bottom price is becoming the ever more important target of some consumers.

    I dont know how you get around the problem, especially when the bargain hunter strolls in for advice and assistance because he/she cant pull a good shot. Must be a very exasperating ongoing situation for the likes of retailers such as our sponsors. CS members who continue to support them are really investing in the future of an industry from which we all enjoy the fruits of collective labours.

    Catch you in the Forum, and all the best,

    Mal.



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