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Thread: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

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    Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight

    What: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis of Coffee
    When: October 4th and 5th 2008
    Where: Coffee Academy - Melbourne
    Cost: $550 CSr discount ($600 for others)

    Palate Training & Sensory Analysis of Coffee

    Two day intensive workshop for coffee professionals, roasters, baristas and serious amateurs who wish to develop their knowledge and skills in coffee analysis using sensory analysis techniques developed for the wine industry.

    Designed by Lindsay Corby, full time lecturer in Wine Production Department of Agricultural Science, Latrobe University, Jill Adams Training and Development Manager of the Coffee Academy.

    Day one
    The focus is on training your palate to identify different tastes and flavours found in coffee:
    1. Sugars, acids, tannins and bitterness tasted separately then in combination
    2. Un-roasted coffee components
    3. Roasted coffee components
    4. Combinations of 1,2&3
    All compounds will be tasted in water and in coffee.

    Day two
    A range of roasted coffees will be tasted to highlight the effects of plant variety, processing
    techniques, region and the roaster on coffee flavour profiles:
    1. Different Arabica plant varieties from the same place
    2. Different processing techniques
    3. Different regions/countries
    4. Same coffee roasted differently.
    5. Growing and processing faults/taints
    6. Robusta / different countries and processing


    Coffee Academy
    William Angliss Institute of TAFE
    555 La Trobe Steet, Melbourne
    Phone: (03) 9606 2111
    Email: jilla@angliss.vic.edu.au
    http://coffee.angliss.vic.edu.au




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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Looks like perfect timing to come down to VIC I reckon. Im so there.

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by YeeZa link=1220319907/0#1 date=1220348715
    Looks like perfect timing to come down to VIC I reckon. Im so there.
    Yes YeeZa,

    Having participated in the last one, I cant recommend it too highly....Sell the family to get there if need be ;)

    Chris

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Oh, I sooo wish one of these would be held in Sydney!

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Like you need it (Super Palate)Michelle , Im the one with only 4 taste buds on my tongue that need a workout haha

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Michelle,
    I mentioned Sydney to the Coffee Academy last time and it will happen, we just dont know the logistics of when and where... I would guess (and it really is a guess) that early in the new year might be likely as the schooling comittment from Angliss and LaTrobe would be at its lowest.

    YeeZa,
    as Chris said, you should love it. I doubt anyone who loves coffee could go without learning at least a couple of gems for the weekend... and its fun too boot!


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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Freeman link=1220319907/0#5 date=1220356928
    Michelle,
    I mentioned Sydney to the Coffee Academy last time and it will happen, we just dont know the logistics of when and where... I would guess (and it really is a guess) that early in the new year might be likely as the schooling comittment from Angliss and LaTrobe would be at its lowest.
    Eeeexcellent! Will start saving now ... :D

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Have booked. Intimidated, but excited.

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben_S link=1220319907/0#7 date=1220418009
    Have booked. Intimidated, but excited.
    Haha, yeah I know what you mean! 8-)

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5


    Nah, the intimidation is just in your own head.

    Its a well designed course that focuses on "what you can taste" and exploring your own palate (ie: there are no right/wrong answers!)

    So dont be scared, be excited, its a great experience!

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    you are probably right, but I always feel like such a novice on this site ;)
    hopefully this takes me to the next level.

    B

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben_S link=1220319907/0#10 date=1220780929
    you are probably right, but I always feel like such a novice on this site ;)
    haha yeah, if its any consolation, I just noticed that Im approaching 1000 posts and I still feel like a novice. Its one of those things though that the more you learn the more you realise theres so much more to learn - I guess thats the coffee-hook.

    Not that Im complaining ;D

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    woot! Got my flight booked! 8-)

    Get down the Friday before and staying the week unti the following Saturday. I will be consuming some coffee over that time Im guessing. [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=engel017.gif]

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    So any other CSs signed up?

    Oh and if youre from out of town, book your hotels now as the footy finals are on then too and the hotels are chockas. Ive gotta split up my cribs as I couldnt get one in the same place for the whole time Im there. (Thanks HD for the heads up:))

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by YeeZa link=1220319907/0#13 date=1222049254
    So any other CSs signed up?

    Oh and if youre from out of town, book your hotels now as the footy finals are on then too and the hotels are chockas. Ive gotta split up my cribs as I couldnt get one in the same place for the whole time Im there. (Thanks HD for the heads up:))
    Hmm...Wonder whats on? The grand final is this coming weekend....Sat 27th to be exact

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1220319907/0#14 date=1222049697
    Quote Originally Posted by YeeZa link=1220319907/0#13 date=1222049254
    So any other CSs signed up?

    Oh and if youre from out of town, book your hotels now as the footy finals are on then too and the hotels are chockas. Ive gotta split up my cribs as I couldnt get one in the same place for the whole time Im there. (Thanks HD for the heads up:))
    Hmm...Wonder whats on? The grand final is this coming weekend....Sat 27th to be exact
    NRL?

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    I think people are staying around for the following week or something. Either way its nuts leading up to the weekend of the 4th-5th.

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Ill be there. Sooooooo excited!
    Hopefully, this will become a more popular and regular event.
    Well all have to post our experiences afterwards.

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by YeeZa link=1220319907/0#13 date=1222049254
    So any other CSs signed up?

    Oh and if youre from out of town, book your hotels now as the footy finals are on then too and the hotels are chockas. Ive gotta split up my cribs as I couldnt get one in the same place for the whole time Im there. (Thanks HD for the heads up:))
    Will be there. Cannot wait. Trying very hard to avoid the flu at the moment. The whole family is sick. Would hate to have to do the course and not be able to taste or smell :)

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    You will have a ball Simon. There was some feedback last time and it was all positive.
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1213684751

    Got the Flu Ben? Thats a bugger but I can tell you that some of the compounds that Lindsay has would stir the dead. I can still mentally taste a couple of them from the first session at the start of the year.


    Oh... the event thats on is the MotoGP :(
    Please dont mention it on the day.
    ;)

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Ive just discovered my non-coffee-drinking partner signed me up as a 30th birthday present! *Apparently logged on to CS and asked some sponsors before being pointed to the course.

    Im excited now, but agree with Ben_S on feeling intimidated. *Only started roasting last summer, and even that almost came to an abrupt end last weekend when the chaff collector on my Imex caught on fire while roasting some Malawi (dont worry - beans were fine).

    Are those attending generally coffee professionals, or are there any fellow amateurs in the midst?

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Im a fellow amateur! Glad to see that there will be some common coffee folk there haha. Theres defnitely some names on the list that have a heap of coffee knowledge. But the thing Im finding more and more in regards to people in the coffee industry is that theyre generally the nicest people around!
    Look forward to meeting ya! Oh and great 30th pressie! This one is my pressie too, but I had to give it to myself haha, and mine is only a 28th bday (on Friday 26th if you want to drop your presents over, team ;))

    Dan

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Sounds like I am missing out :( I have a good friends weding on anyway. If there is one in Sydney soon Ill be there for sure.

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Michelle sighs, wishes she was in Melbourne with this lucky mob ... :(

    Make sure yall let us know how it went!

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    I batted my eyelids at my husband sighing about how I would like to attend and could I maybe fly, or even drive to Melbourne for it... the response: but your birthday is in January! :P

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Hey all,

    Given the interest that this session has generated, I thought it worthwhile posting a quick recap of the day and a few photos on my blog. *You can access it by clicking here and adding the appropriate L to "bogspot" in the url.

    It was quite funny to see that CS members Ben, Den and Dan posted that they felt intimidated, but were tasting away with the best of them at no time.

    Ill leave yall with a photo of our head snob delivering his session.

    Cheers,

    Luca


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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Yes, it was a great weekend.
    Yes, Luca has posted a comprehensive blog at his "Bogspot" (sic).
    Yes, another session is planned for Feb 09.
    Yes, Ive got some photos on my blog too.


    Cheers,
    Simon.


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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5


    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle link=1220319907/20#23 date=1223094915
    Michelle sighs, wishes she was in Melbourne with this lucky mob ... *:(

    Make sure yall let us know how it went!
    You will have to drop Jill a line and push for a Sydney session Michelle. Can you think of a good venue for it?

    It was a great weekend as expected.
    Lots of familiar faces from regular coffee circles and some new ones that Iím sure we will see at future events too.

    There is something special about getting a group of people that share a passion for great coffee together, it quickly becomes comfortable and constructive as everyone shares thoughts, opinions and ideas which makes it a great learning environment for everyone. I really hope that everyone that attended found a few gems that they didnít know and a few tools to use in the future.

    I also thank the roasters in the audience for not throwing heckling me during my session on roast profiling a single bean for different results. I cannot help but feel like Iím telling their grandparents how to suck eggs!

    Thanks to Jill and Lindsay for putting together a unique and positive course and thanks to everyone there for being interesting people to spend the weekend with.

    8-)

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    WOW - what a great weekend. Worth every cent. From the basics of layout, presentation and preparation, everything was top notch.

    Being a relative beginner - there were some very experienced people in the room - I had my eyes opened to how little I know. The really positive thing about sensory analysis is what you perceive in the cup.

    I was very surprised to be able to taste the differences in roast profiles, processing methods and different types of coffee. Learning to work out what the actually are and being able to "verbalise" what you are tasting is a different story.

    The first day was tough going, tasting some really disgusting concoctions from Lindsay. But at least being able to learn what is in coffee and what different things mean (body, acidity, balance etc).

    The second day was great - being able to translate this into tasting some of the compounds in coffee. It was my first experience in cupping and I am hooked. It is such a change from espresso and has opened my eyes.

    It was also great to listen and learn from others, and even just watch some of the other participants on the espresso machines and hear the discussions on roasting.

    Everyone is very open with their knowledge and experience.

    Definitely read Luca and Simons blogs to get a bit more detail on what the course covers.

    Highly recommended.

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Freeman link=1220319907/20#27 date=1223214164
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle link=1220319907/20#23 date=1223094915
    Michelle sighs, wishes she was in Melbourne with this lucky mob ... *:(

    Make sure yall let us know how it went!
    You will have to drop Jill a line and push for a Sydney session Michelle. *Can you think of a good venue for it?
    Yeah, look, why dont you all just come round to my place ;D

    Seriously, what kind of space/equipment do you need to set it up?

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Hi all,
    Ok yeah, my brain is hurting from trying to process the stuff thats gone through it over the past few days. The guys above have pretty much summed it up.

    The great thing about this course is that no matter what stage you are at you WILL benefit from it. Whether youre at the "Ive been roasting for 20 years" end or the "Im pretty sure Ive only got 4 taste buds" end of the scale like myself, you WILL benefit from it.

    All those fears of feeling intimidated etc go right out the window because, as per usual, coffee people seem to be the nicest, least intimidating people on the planet.

    Now Im pretty keen to spend the next 5-6 days Ive got here in Melbourne to do some coffee therapy :) Im sure there are a few places ;)

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle link=1220319907/20#29 date=1223247992

    Yeah, look, why dont you all just come round to my place *;D

    Seriously, what kind of space/equipment do you need to set it up?
    I wonder if a coffee roastery would suit?

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Are you volunteering yours Den? ;)

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle link=1220319907/20#32 date=1223253470
    Are you volunteering yours Den? ;)
    Yep, I guess thats an offer Michelle - if it suits the needs for the course.

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5


    Funny you ask
    ;)

    A good sized sink (100s of glasses and cupping bowls need rinsing), and a bit of benchtop to do that on.

    We would need a deli grinder (tick), seats for 20 odd and tables to work off (which could be hired).

    Yeah, a coffee roasterie could work!

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle link=1220319907/20#29 date=1223247992
    Seriously, what kind of space/equipment do you need to set it up?
    Space-wise, its pretty simple; you basically just need tables and chairs to fit all participants.

    Setup-wise, its a bit more of a PITA. I think that the chances of being able to run day one without someone like Lindsay doing it are nil, naught and nothing. For starters, you need to work out what the relevant compounds are, which ought not be too difficult, I guess. Then you need to buy the compounds that you want to use, which isnt that difficult, but the problem is that you will have to buy them in the minimum quantities that Merck or whoever supply them in, so theres probably significant expenditure there. Then you need to work out the correct dilutions for the compounds, for which you will need a hell of a lot of clean bottles, lots of distilled water, a few different mechanical pipettes ($$$), some water baths and probably other miscellaneous equipment. In practical terms, I doubt that you could run day one unless you had access to a lab that already had most of the compounds that you need and it probably wouldnt be a great session unless the person running it really knew what they were doing. Hence the need to get Lindsay in.

    Day two would be easier to run, but would still require a lot of effort. Basically, you need a whole bunch of samples roasted correctly for sample roasting. The Aceh samples were the highlight of the whole thing for me because it must be next to impossible to get a set of such samples unless you have the right contacts. I defer to pro roasters who actually sample roast as to the difficulty of obtaining good sample roasts, but I note that one of the tasting pairs that we did was actually the same yirgacheffe on a sample roaster and on a shop roaster. The two couldnt have been more different. People also brought along a number of espresso roasts for the final cupping session and those roasts didnt really stand up and have much to say in comparison with the proper sample roasts. Dont underestimate the difficulty in actually sourcing samples that will behave as you intend them to, as well! Simon and I found both of the harrars to be quite bitter and unpalatable ... which has been reflective of the many disappointments that harrars have given me over the years.

    You could certainly run something of this genre, but the difficulty will probably be in getting someone who really knows what they are talking about to run the relevant parts of the sessions. Im sure that there are many pro roasters out there for whom the session would be old hat, but Im equally sure that there would be many out there who would have found the whole thing quite new.

    Simply getting together to taste a bunch of coffees would probably be a valuable exercise, but, having been interested in coffee for many years, I can tell you that peoples enthusiasm for such an activity is usually less than the effort that they will put in to actually run it. That is part of the reason why I was happy to shell out hard-earned cash for this session; the other is the sheer PITA factor of organising it.

    I would be happy to coordinate a cupping session of sorts in Melbourne in December if we can find a location to host it.

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1220319907/20#35 date=1223256798
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle link=1220319907/20#29 date=1223247992
    Seriously, what kind of space/equipment do you need to set it up?
    You could certainly run something of this genre, but the difficulty will probably be in getting someone who really knows what they are talking about to run the relevant parts of the sessions. *
    I actually thought the idea was that a Sydney one being run by the same people :-? ... I thought I got that impression earlier ... maybe it was just wishful thinking ...

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5


    I think that the chances of being able to run day one without someone like Lindsay doing it are nil, naught and nothing.
    Agreed!

    Yes Michelle, I was talking about the whole show going on the road, Jill and Lindsay were open to the idea when it was tossed around.

    Im not sure of the logistics it would be a (pun warning) full pallet of stuff and most of it glass but having a venue (a potential great venue Dennis!) makes it one step closer to happening.

    ...I own a big van and heck, Sydney is just up the road right?
    ;)


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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    The roastery has plenty of room for a pallet load of gear; already have the tables and chairs for 20 or so people; have a spare 1800x600 stainless benchtop; sink - hmm, its just a standard single sink...is it possible to hire dishwashers?

    Load up the beanmobile Andy!

    :)

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1220319907/20#38 date=1223270538
    The roastery has plenty of room for a pallet load of gear; already have the tables and chairs for 20 or so people; have a spare 1800x600 stainless benchtop; sink - hmm, its just a standard single sink...is it possible to hire dishwashers?

    Load up the beanmobile Andy!

    :)
    Heck, if it means I can get my butt to this course - Ill do the washing up ;)

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle link=1220319907/20#39 date=1223276812

    Heck, if it means I can get my butt to this course - Ill do the washing up ;)
    Me too Michelle!

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle link=1220319907/20#39 date=1223276812

    Heck, if it means I can get my butt to this course - Ill do the washing up ;)

    Youd think about that harder if you saw how many glasses we went through... trust me ;)

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Yeeza and Luca:

    So you guys will recommend this course, I am looking to go to the next one.

    Regards


    Renzo

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Di Bartoli link=1220319907/40#42 date=1224629115
    Yeeza and Luca:

    So you guys will recommend this course, I am looking to go to the next one.

    Regards

    Renzo
    I believe [s]everyone[/s] many people who have attended recommends this course Renzo, and Im hoping that the cuppacoffee roastery is selected as the Sydney venue. *If so, youll be very welcome!

    EDIT: Having read back through the thread Ive realised that I should have said "many people", not "everyone". I certainly dont know every participants individual views.

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Sure, let me know. I am trying to go to the CafeBiz at Port Maquarie, are you comming.


    Regards

    Renzo

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Would love to be there Renzo, but way too busy.

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Sorry, Dennis I meant Golden Bean Workshops

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Quote Originally Posted by Di Bartoli link=1220319907/40#46 date=1224654073
    Sorry, Dennis I meant Golden Bean Workshops
    Getting a bit off topic here, but are you sure you know where youre going Renzo? The workshops, judging, etc. are all the same event. ;D


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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    I am talking about the workshops, but everything is pending how much work i have

    http://www.cafebiz.net/page/equal_golden_bean.html

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    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - Oct 4-5

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Di Bartoli link=1220319907/40#48 date=1224656523
    I am talking about the workshops, but everything is pending how much work i have
    What do you mean Renzo, you dont work with all those toys around you?!



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