Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdosed?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    32

    Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdosed?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Heyya!

    I bought some Campos beans about 3 days ago and all Ive gotten so far is half a kilo of frustration! I the closer I got to a great taste, the next shot would be in the complete wrong direction (running out of water...twice... didnt help either :P). Pretty easy to narrow down though, dosage.. Guesstimation just didnt cut it with these beans.

    So, I bought some digital scales to measure the dose, only $50 so not too shabby. I pulled a shot and weighted it... 17.something grams! Which would have been even higher if I hadnt of run out of beans in the hopper. So I evened it up a little using the good old conservation of mass principle (14g beans in = 14g grind out once all of the nooks and crannys are filled), success!

    I finally started to get some consistency! Though I ended up wasting 5 shots because the grind was now off by nearly 2 clicks. I was nearly at the sweet point before yet another mysterious drought struck inside the water tank. *doah!* There is always tomorrow...

    Also, this got me thinking, if I dosed the crazy American way (make a sand castle and knock it down to a flat surface), I would be dosing at least 20g+ for a double! Does that sound right or do Americans go a little overboard with everything? *:P

    Trev

  2. #2
    mwatt
    Guest

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    Im pretty sure its Australian who have the rep for monstrous updosing. No idea about the Americans.

  3. #3
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    I updose to around 20g.
    Never had a problem with Campos beans.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    4,512

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    Since when is 20gm updosing?

  5. #5
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    If you take 7g to be a single and 14g to be a double.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    32

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    Yeah there is nothing wrong with Campos beans in capable hands, I had an espresso while I was there and it was nothing short of fantastic! I just havent worked them out yet :P

    I thought that 14g was basically standard, and 16-18g for over-dosed.... but 20+ seemed way excessive. Im also more worried about the cost per shot, Im only a poor uni student! Considering Im not so much drinking most of the coffee, more tasting and experimenting, Id rather get have another 25 shots to experiment with ;) In a commercial cafe Im guessing they would also consider this as well, as the cost of an extra 30% more coffee would add up very quickly.

  7. #7
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    Roast your own.
    Its cheaper.
    My wife prefers my coffee to Campos.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,687

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    re: campos and updosing; in their cafes (most that Ive seen) they use LM triple baskets. Seems to work for their coffee.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    32

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    Im considering that too! Might be a fun endeavor for my uni holidays :D Ive only just started the journey as far as espresso goes, hunting around for the flavors that enjoy!

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    255

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    For me its between 16g to 25g in a synesso/ascaso double basket depending on the blend.
    Real pain in the ass trying to play around with dose levels... there never seems to be enough coffee to experiment with at home.

    Single basket has given me the most rounded and best tasting espresso at home... not much in the way of volume.

    p.s. anyone know how much ground coffee the sunbeam triple basket holds?

  11. #11
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    17,123

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    Dont think you need to get too hung up on the weight of beans in the basket. We all know that 7/14g is the nominal weight but in the overall scheme of things (as with many other variables attached to espresso) you want to consider this as more of a guide rather than a rule. Most (commercial sized) espresso machine baskets are deigned and manufactured to standards that ensure enough coffee can be dosed so that it is possible to pull continuously excellent espresso (if you do your part).

    Forget the weight and think more in terms of volume, i.e. when the volume in the basket is correct after normal dosing, distribution and tamping (and correct grind) you will soon be able to pull excellent quality espresso on demand, at any time. A bit of practice doesnt hurt of course.... ;)

    Mal.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    255

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    The (coffee) Hoffs succinct explanation
    http://www.jimseven.com/2007/01/02/espresso-extraction-ratios/

    Home-barista has some good reading on the topic. George Sabados wrote an article in the Oct/Nov 2005 issue that is worth finding.
    ========================

    brewing ratios for espresso beverages
    http://www.home-barista.com/forums/brewing-ratios-for-espresso-beverages-t2402.html

    basket overdosing time for serious re-evaluation
    http://www.home-barista.com/forums/basket-overdosing-time-for-serious-re-evaluation-t4501.html

    updosing revisited
    http://www.home-barista.com/forums/updosing-revisited-t792.html

    PF.net posts
    http://www.portafilter.net/2006/01/updosing-again.html
    http://www.portafilter.net/2006/01/updosing-again-again.html

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    35

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    Many thanks for the excellent resources, Rice :)

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,954

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    Regarding Campos, note that they offer multiple blends and you might actually prefer something different. For example, you might find that dark city is easier to work with and produces espresso more to your tastes than superior.

    Cheers,

    Luca

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    32

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    Wow excellent readings there Rice! Kept me up last night :P I think that the some blends lend themselves better to being*up-dosed definitely has a lot of merit. Also, YeeZa must be right about the triple baskets for Campos. After another day of experimenting... I couldnt get a shot that was sweet enough using 16g, still rather bitter with a really slow pour. If I went any finer it would have stalled my machine!

    So I upped it to 17g, which is basically as full at my basket gets without messing about to much... the result was magic! I finally got it to balance out, and the sweetness was there... Still not quite the same as what I was getting at Campos, but its on its way. Im going to try 18g tomorrow, submitting to the leveling techniques :P We shall see how that goes!

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Earth!
    Posts
    15,876

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    As previously mentioned try dosing by volume.

    General: Fill, and of course tamp, the pf until the top of the puck just barely touches the screw/screen when it is locked into place. Adjust the grind keeping the fill level of the pf consistent until you get the shot youre looking for. :)

    More detailed: The exact degree of contact between the freshly tamped puck and the screw/screen will vary enormously depending on the exact model of espresso machine you have. On some the shower screen is held in place by a screw/bolt with a large head that protrudes out from the shower screen several millimeters. On others the screw is flush with the shower screen. Ideally you want the absolute minimum contact, preferably none at all, between the fresh puck and the screw/screen.

    The pf should be filled enough so that when first locked on the puck doesnt touch the shower screen but as it expands during the pull it rises up to touch the screen. If you dose too low you end up with a wet sloppy puck. If you dose too high you fracture the puck when locking the pf on leading to channeling and bad pulls. Youll also clog and potentially damage your shower screen if you dose too high.

    These are of course generic rules and as always the exact procedure that people end up using will be determined by their equipment, beans, and taste buds. :)


    Java "Start with the basics and then experiment" phile

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    32

    Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile link=1225707204/0#15 date=1226132877
    As previously mentioned try dosing by volume.

    General: Fill, and of course tamp, the pf until the top of the puck just barely touches the screw/screen when it is locked into place. Adjust the grind keeping the fill level of the pf consistent until you get the shot youre looking for. :)

    More detailed: The exact degree of contact between the freshly tamped puck and the screw/screen will vary enormously depending on the exact model of espresso machine you have. On some the shower screen is held in place by a screw/bolt with a large head that protrudes out from the shower screen several millimeters. On others the screw is flush with the shower screen. Ideally you want the absolute minimum contact, preferably none at all, between the fresh puck and the screw/screen.

    The pf should be filled enough so that when first locked on the puck doesnt touch the shower screen but as it expands during the pull it rises up to touch the screen. If you dose too low you end up with a wet sloppy puck. If you dose too high you fracture the puck when locking the pf on leading to channeling and bad pulls. Youll also clog and potentially damage your shower screen if you dose too high.

    These are of course generic rules and as always the exact procedure that people end up using will be determined by their equipment, beans, and taste buds. :)


    Java "Start with the basics and then experiment" phile
    Wow, everyone here is full of little snippets of wisdom! :) That basically mirrors what I found when I was changing the dose amount, 14 grams was way too little and I was getting a really wet puck. Ive now settled back into eyeballing it to an amount so that after tamping, the grind is just level with this circular scratch on one side of the PF (which Im presuming was created by the edge of the shower screen ;)). The resulting puck is nice and solid with a little carbon copy of the screw head. It also leaves very little grind on the shower screen as well, which Im presuming is a good thing, not to mention some nice espresso too :)

    Thanks everyone for all of there advice! :)



Similar Threads

  1. Scales.
    By Yelta in forum Brewing Equipment (non-machine specific)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 28th June 2010, 05:23 AM
  2. Digital Scales
    By thegoodies in forum General Coffee Related...
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 15th January 2010, 02:50 PM
  3. WOW! My First awesome cup!
    By jmcclumpha in forum General Coffee Related...
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 15th November 2009, 09:30 PM
  4. Scales
    By aedion in forum Brewing Equipment (non-machine specific)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 23rd February 2008, 04:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •