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Thread: Tasmania Against Roaster

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    Tasmania Against Roaster

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1560213.htm

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    Its getting to be like that in more and more places. Two small local roasters here were forced to install afterburners because of neighbors complaints and even that didnt stop the complaints. One of these was just a couple of blocks from a lake where in the summer the smell permiates for blocks around. I suppose next theyll be calling to get rid of the lake because of the smell.

    From what I hear in many major cities now in the US its not uncommon for them to require an afterburner on any roaster capable of doing 5 pounds or more.

    Java "Taking pride in stinking up the neighborhood" phile

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    I chuckled at the line...

    CARLOS KINDRED: Oh yeah. If they want to lock horns, Im in
    Gotta love the coffee passion!

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    I had a simlar thing (Im based in the UK) it resulted in us having to move roastry to a place out in the countryside to avoid complaints and be ok for polution targets, no fun at all

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    Looks like a typical case of NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard).

    Ill use an analogy. In a more well to do suburb of Sydney, there was plans to build a KFC along the main road. The community banded together to completely block the development application. Main reason given was the smell. In the same lot of shops where the KFC was going to go were a car dealership, and several small takeaway shops (pizza, thai, etc.). Across the road is a large pub with outdoor bbq facilities (grill your own). I guess the smell of pizza/thai/bbq meat is better than deep-fried chicken. Nothing is said about the car exhaust coming off of the high traffic road. Seems it is very selective what is good or bad.

    It also seems people are quite repulsed by the idea of an exhaust stack from a tunnel near where they live. The people in question live in close proximity to one of the main arterial roads in Sydney. Its ok to have a large area-source of pollution next to your house (the road), but not a small point-source of pollution that is raised above the ground, above the level of houses. Mind you, the road is encompassed by a hill on one side with multi-storey units, and multi-storey units on the other (think canyon of pollution and you get the idea). Such narrow-mindedness seems to be rife today.

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Has Bean Steve link=1138831988/0#3 date=1138837235
    I had a simlar thing (Im based in the UK) it resulted in us having to move roastry to a place out in the countryside to avoid complaints and be ok for polution targets, no fun at all

    Hey Steve, do people use wood fires in that area? If so, seems a bit hypocritical to me.

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    there are wood fires and the thing that made me laugh was not 200 meters away is a rubbish dump that smelt to high heaven in the summer.

    But I gave a few people something to complain about for a while :)

    steve

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    Good people of the CoffeeSnobs Forum....

    Anyone living or working or even lingering close by to a commercial roaster not fitted with anti pollution gear will usually complain about the smell and the smoke...and as a commercial specialty roaster with many years experience, I can understand their point of view.

    You have to understand we are not talking a small amount inconvenience, and this has nothing to do with "being serious about coffee". The smoke is black and voluminous, and the smell is acrid, sweet and in some circumstances quite overpowering. Both are concentrated, and if there happens to be an inversion layer in the area, the smoke and smell do not get blown away but are actually kind of "held down" to linger.....

    Office workers are particularly vulnerable. Consider the smoke and smell that is taken in by the air conditioning system of nearby office buildings and gets pumped around...this is unpleasant in the extreme.

    And the concentrated smell is not burned away unless the afterburner is run at a much higher temperature than will get rid of the smoke. So just because you cant see smoke, doesnt mean there isnt a really unpleasant smell lingering....

    And from my own point of view, there is the other side of the coin. Why should I be a good corporate citizen and comply with regulations and not upset nearby people or pollute the air around my business, at considerable cost (the afterburner costs twice as much to run than the roaster does) to the actual roasting mix cost, while johhnycomelately competitors come and go without (antipollution gear) , to their considerable business advantage (the cost of building and fitting an afterburner could easily match the initial investment in a small commercial roaster).

    All coffee/snobbery aside fellas, this is a legitimate problem and must /should be addressed *by all those who wish to take up commercial coffee roasting. If they dont know about afterburners, then they havent done enough homework in their business plan. Frankly, anyone that doesnt comply with anti pollution considerations / regulations whether they be draft laws or real ones, should be shut down by the authorities.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    I read an article recently about GJs roasterie in Castle Hill. It is in a commercial/light industrial area. People working nearby in the commercial/industrial area were complaining of asthma and headaches, from the smoke. They do use an afterburner at the roasterie. Whats the difference?

    Ive been nearby at different times of the day, and you really cant smell the smoke. Looks like someone just wanted to point the finger. You could simply take GJs out, and insert your favourite roaster here. While smoke of any type is harmful, I really dont think smoke from a roastierie is anywhere near as bad as the pollution that comes from our roads.

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    In regards to homework in the business plan, I had our environmental health and pollution control team around on the first day of looking at our new premises, and asked them what they wanted me to do in regards to smoke and pollution , and the answer was nothing apart from to only roast during office hours.

    To be fair I think it also matters the size of roaster your using. A big 120kg machine needs an afterburner for sure, a 2kg, 5kg and 15kg (which is our set up) doesnt. I think it also matters if your in the middle of the town or city. We were out on an industrial estate on the edges of town, and now out in the sticks.

    Steve

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    You should have just hung a few hundred Vanillaroma trees off the top of your stack.

    People complain even when industrial businesses are in industrial estates. You really cant win.

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    There are a number of points I can address.

    Re: *
    "People complain even when industrial businesses are in industrial estates. *You really cant win."

    This is true, *but real people that live and breath, work in industrial estates so the "industrial" estate thing doesnt cut it. If what you do affects people, then you take steps.

    Working only *during working hours doesnt cut it either...thats when all the people you are polluting are around...I used to roast in an industrial area, OUTSiDE of everyone elses working hours....until I got an afterburner. Now I roast whenever I like.

    The trouble is that the smell and smoke from an "unchecked" roaster is a million times more obvious and much more acrid than any smog Ive ever smelled and not seen in a traffuc jam on a sydney road during peak hour.

    What really does matter is the kind of "micro" environment (in terms of prevailing weather conditions) that any individual roaster may have had the good or misfortune to set up in. Anyone that inadvertently sets up in an area where the weather conditions dont coopoerate to blow your fumes away, is in trouble.

    If GJs is running an afterburning system then in all honesty there would be almost no possiblity of anyone seeing any smoke. If however their afterburning system were to allow a good deal of the smell to be smelled...it could mean the afterburning is not hot enough. This is unlikley as any professional afterburning system is fitted with interlocking devices to stop you from doing anything other than to run it as intended.

    You might however be interested to know that (from memory) european laws allow roasters to run their afterburners at temps as low as *450 degrees C. This certainly takes care of the smoke. But Oz legislation calls for afterburners to be run at over 700 degrees C. This takes care of a lot more of the smell than the european case but can (depending on the circumstances) still leave you with some. *This should help explain why it is so expensive to run with an afterburner (over here).

    If the afterburning system is run as it should be, it is unlikely anyone further away than directly next door would know you are roasting and even if they did, any complaint could not be considered legitimate.

    There are two sides to the coin. People who complain just because they can, get nowhere. The feds respond to complaints. But they are not silly and if they visit and see you are running your antipollution gear according to legislated guidelines, they leave you alone and tell the complainants ever so politely, that they have no case. So it cuts both ways.

    In terms of the Tasmanian scenario, certainly it could be a furphy...making some nice sensational copy for people to read when you dont have any real news to put in the "news"paper........on the other hand, it could be quite legitimate in the case of someone running roasting equipment without anti pollution governance.

    Forum members should therefore keep an open mind rather than dismiss the incident just because they are "coffeesnobs"!

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    Maybe Im weird, but there used to be a coffee shop up the street, run by a little old man. *I always knew when he was roasting when I was up the street shopping. *I loved the smell! *It was hypnotic, I had to go and buy coffee, every time I smelled it. * :D *He eventually retired, sold his business. *The new owner bought a bigger shop further up the street. *I guess he must have bought an afterburner, because one can never smell coffee any more, except when he burns it. * ::) I dont like his coffe much, either. *:-) *(cant seem to roast it to the same degree twice)

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    I have Roasted Chiles,
    Smoked Fish, meats etc
    and Intend to roast Coffee.
    All at home in semi Commercial Quantities, for home use.
    Im in a residential area and do it all in my front yard, "theres the rub".
    I can probably get away with it..
    Tepin

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    Love the smell of coffee -- but respect the right of EVERYONE to breathe in fresh air uncontaminated by food/cigarette/other odours.

    I love the occasional smell of frying garlic in my kitchen -- find it abhorent when the air conditioning at work is contaminated by it from the restaurant in the building, first thing in the morning especially.

    Love the bouquet of freshly-poured wine or beer, but doesnt by any means mean Id be in my element living next to a brewery.

    In any case, not EVERYONE likes coffee or its aroma, so why foist it on them via a commercial roaster.

    Robusto

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    Youre right Robusto - I lived most of 2004 in Cape Town on a volunteer program. The program paid for food and lodging, which happened to be in a beautiful little cottage in a very middle class neighbourhood, right next to Newlands Cricket & Rugby stadiums, nestled beautifully at the foot of Table mountain. Problem is it was next to South African Breweries Cape Town brewery. If the wind blew right, the smell was nausea inducing. Id imagine it would be quite similar living near any industrial sized food prep factory, coffe roasters included.

    Pete

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    Coffee row boils over: Aldermen clash before HCC committee backs business
    By MARGARETTA POS
    07 Feb 2006 - The Mercury

    A FIERY meeting of the Hobart City Councils Development and Environmental Services Committee last night voted to support the Battery Point coffee business at the centre of a public row.

    And it dismissed the need for an afterburner, which would cost the business at least $10,000.

    But not before a slanging match between two aldermen erupted.

    At issue is the smell from the coffee roaster operated by Carlos and Nikki Kindred at Oomph! Tasmanian Gourmet Coffee in Hampden Rd.

    Alderman Ron Christie said Alderman Darlene Haighs daughter wrote a report on the issue commissioned by the HCC.

    Alderman Haighs daughter, Emma Riley, a consultant planner with GHD Pty Ltd, recommended that the Kindreds application to roast coffee be refused.

    A furious Ald Haigh denied she had a pecuniary interest and said her daughter was an independent professional.

    Asked to clarify the situation, HCC general manager Brent Armstrong said she did not have such an interest.

    Ald Christie countered, saying she had a "conscience interest," which she should have declared.

    "You shouldnt be in here," he said.

    Calling him offensive, Ald Haigh said: "I will not be spoken to again in this manner or I will take legal action."

    Ald Christie stormed out until she finished talking, saying he would not listen

    to her.

    After the acrid debate, the committee voted 3-1 to allow the Kindreds to continue roasting coffee beans, with certain conditions, one being that an environmental officer monitor the business for six months.

    The motion will go to a full council meeting for a decision next Tuesday.

    Those in favour last night were Alderman Lyn Archer, Jeff Briscoe and Ron Christie. Greens Alderman Helen Burnet voted against the motion.

    Alderman Haigh is not a member of the committee, so could not vote. Nor could Alderman Eva Ruzicka, who also attended.

    Several people had prior permission to speak to the meeting for three minutes each.

    Speaking as a Battery Point resident, John White, who is senior vice-president of the Battery Point and Sullivans Cove Community Association, said those who protested against the terrible smell had been lampooned in The Mercury as "whingers, wowsers and Mafia".

    In turn, Battery Point and Sullivans Cove Community Association president David Edwards said it was a planning issue, and the HCC must enforce its own regulations which he said deemed coffee roasting as "light industrial".

    But Battery Point Business Association representative Stuart Jones said coffee roasting in a five kg roaster should be considered "special use" not "light industrial".

    Co-owner Carlos Kindred said his family had been victimised and harassed over the issue.

    Mr Kindred said he would consider moving the roaster to other premises if it was viable.


    from:
    http://www.themercury.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,18064886%255E3462,00.html



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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    a 5kg roaster?

    geez, dont some snobs do that in their back yards?!

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    I hot Smoke 5 Kilos of Fish in my front yard on a regular basis, I catch lots, it all about light lines..
    Tepin
    Wonder what the neighbours will say when I start cutting up that Sika/Chittal Stag I have been stalking for a month or so..
    Ciao

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by TEPIN link=1138831988/15#18 date=1139306046
    Wonder what the neighbours will say when I start cutting up that Sika/Chittal Stag I have been stalking for a month or so..
    I had a laugh That reminds me of the time I gutted and butchered a deer in front of my house at 11pm. I think every cop in the city drove by just so they could say theyd seen it. Once the first cop spotted us 45 minutes into the process (In the heart of a metropolis of 3 million people with the exit ramp from a major freeway right in front of us.) we had a new laughing visitor from the boys in blue every 5-10 minutes for the next couple of hours until the job was done. They had no interest in where wed gotten the deer (deer were months out of season at the time) or in seeing any paperwork or even in how wed gotten it. They just wanted to see the nuts butchering a deer in the middle of the city. giggled like a schoolgirl

    And yes, we drank lots of coffee while reducing bambi to its component parts. ;D

    Java "The nut case" phile

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    CARLOS KINDRED: Oh yeah. If they want to lock horns, Im in
    [/QUOTE]


    Becomes Carlo when roasting for his Italian Customers.

    Becomes Karl when roasting for his German Customers.

    Becomes Charles when roasting for his British Customers

    Becomes Chuck when roasting for his US Customers.

    Becomes Chas when roasting for his local Customers.

    ;) ;D


    And just plain old Carlos to his existing Spanish clientele.



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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    Actually guys Carlos is not spanish, as his surname Kindred attests... :)

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    Re: Tasmania Against Roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerJoe link=1138831988/15#21 date=1140587903
    Actually guys Carlos is not spanish, as his surname Kindred attests... :)

    Actually that was the point of my post. ;)



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