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Thread: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

  1. #1
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Ditto.....

    Link to original thread in Coffee Equipment&#124;Roasters... http://<font color="#ffff00"><b><u>h.../u></b></font>

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    I spoke to KJM and Greg Pullman today, both are interested in the idea.

    That would give us a Gene and Hottop selection.

    Would be good to have a few more "subscribers". Anyone else?



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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Need to get a local commercial roaster on board too if possible hb. Has anyone talked to Coffee Barun yet?

    Mal.

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Before talking to Mark I was waiting a bit to see (a) level of
    interest and (b) the preferred way of conducting it. I think
    the way its going in Qld would work (sans Turquino though).

    I think lucinda might give it a try -- spoke to her in the market
    this morning. That would make four, which is probably viable.

    Anyone else ? ....

    PS Id be happy to trek out to Coffee Barun and pick
    up beans for the others, that should speed the process

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Yep I can be interested.

    Sorry t took so long to post a reply. I am about to go to a wedding.... (no not mine)

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Good to hear, lucinda.

    I sent Mark a PM yesterday, will see what can be done.

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Happy to run with it,

    We can follow other states lead

    We just need to pick a control bean thinking

    Png Kimel
    sweet collection daterra
    Rwandan Bourbon

    Please let me know whos intrested
    will post coffee and 500g bag for the comp

    maybe will close and post out on friday 2nd

    and cup samples aprox two weeks later TBA


    In your hands

    Mark

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Thats great Mark, thanks!

    I guess logistically we can do it similarly to Pioneer in Qld?

    As for the bean, Id try any of those, perhaps with a slight
    preference for the Kimel. The Rwandan could be interesting,
    but not sure what its like to roast.

    So far KJM, lucinda and Greg P have expressed interest, but
    Im sure there is some room for more.

    The dates suggested look good -- cofffee out this weekend, back roasted
    for the weekend of the 17th.

  9. #9
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Im sort of interested. My Gene Cafe is new and Im using Marks basic instructions to get what I consider is great coffee, so it is probably a very standard home roast.
    If that would be a worthwhile contribution then include me in.
    Greg

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Hi Greg

    Great to see you today, please join in our fun

    All

    After speaking to Andrew

    2kg of PNG Sigri AA will be the bean
    $14 to play
    Will give you bags for your returned roast
    Need to be back to us by the 17th cupping on the week end.

    Roast level is in your hands

    (we roast just before the rolling second crack in our 5kg)

    will cup the coffee, then through the Synesso

    Please let us know numbers

    Thanks Mark
    Mark

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Thats great, Greg! I think it will be interesting to compare them all.

    After talking to Mark yesterday weve pretty much settled on 2kg each
    of Kimel (could be more or less though).

    Im hoping to be able to go out late tomorrow afternoon and collect CS
    pickup beans, plus these, for KJM, Greg P and lucinda. Then we can all
    get cracking ...

    edit: just noticed cross-post with Mark -- at least we agreed (except that
    its Sigri, after what I had there last week, is something to look forward to!

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    So to get this straight in my head, do we have a particular day/date set for roasting?


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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Yep I reckon its tomorrow Lucinda. I think earlier in the discussion Mark mentioned a two week resting time. The only thing I would add is that the more standardised we can have the finishing point the more likely we are to be comparing roasting machines rather than roaster operators. To pull a figure out of the cooling tray, what say we pull the roast about 10 seconds after the first snaps of second crack? By this stage it should be just about to roll. Well also need to know how many samples were to submit.

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    all

    We believe that 7 day rest is pretty prefect

    This will give you a trial run through frist, and maybe an chance to adjust your profile

    Greg, 10 sec after first few cracks sound fine, as an genral point.

    500g sample to cup and then runing through the synesso, by the 17th
    -cupping on the saterday
    -espresso on the sunday
    -results on monday

    If we want to test roaster agaisnt roaster it best done side by side at the same time, same condition and same roasted level / profile
    happy to set up an roasting / cupping night @ the shop .

    Thanks Mark

  15. #15
    KJM
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Hmmmm. 500g. Thats 2.5 batches for me :o (I standardised on 200g lots in the Gene).

    This sounds like a hoot. Cant wait!

    /Kevin

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    "This sounds like a hoot. Cant wait!"

    Well the beans have landed ...

  17. #17
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Where do we pick up the beans? At the Coffee Barun? or somewhere else?
    If its at the Barun, is there a time when people are meeting? Not too early I hope--I do like a bit of a snooze on Saturday morning.
    Greg

  18. #18
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    This final process sounds like:
    pick up beans this weekend--trial roast(s)
    final roasts next weekend (10th)
    beans to the Barun by 17th
    Greg

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Thats correct, Greg.

    I collected beans at the Barun yesterday, we
    werent able to make it today.

    Hoping to do a trial later today.

  20. #20
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Thanks, Andrew.
    I got mine this morning and am just about to do a trial roast. There is a fair bit of excitement at The Barun over the tastings!
    Greg

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    I did a trial roast Saturday and the results are pretty yummy. I plan to do another trial roast wednesday before I roast Saturday.

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    I tried my trial roast from Saturday this afternoon, and its a bit acid for me and my milk drinks--so it should be perfect for cupping and espressos.
    I sampled the Honduran Organic that I roasted the same afternoon and it is stunning! I prefer it to Marks roast of the same bean.
    Greg

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Ive now done two samples of this, with slightly different profiles but
    quite different results.

    The first I did last Saturday. Cupped 24 hrs later, I found quite low acidity. In an
    espresso yesterday, acidity was quite noticeable (more than I was expecting),
    but quite pleasant.

    The second I roasted yesterday, and cupped earlier this evening. Acidity quite
    high, and dominating the palate. Would be difficult as espresso I think. *Now
    have to figure out why this change :)

    I guess they key here will be to roast enough to keep this acidity in check,
    but not too much and lose the delightful "dark stone fruit" notes coming through
    in both roasts.

    All good fun ...

  24. #24
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    I noticed that my first roast of this went very quickly from first to second crack--and this agrees with Mark Baruns suggestion that this is a critical dimension, with a longer time giving a smoother, less lifted flavour.
    I may try to lengthen this time if it is still a bit too lifted for me tomorrow.
    Greg

  25. #25
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Is anyone representing using a popper, or better yet, a wok?

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    I had a little over four minutes FC to SC on that first roast, which I tried
    again tonight -- acidity still there, but less prominent now. Yet to try the second
    roast.

    as far as I know no wok roast, would be interesting though. Last time I tried it
    the range of colours of the beans at the end was impressive :)

  27. #27
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    My doppio ristretto picolo latte this morning was excellent! Its still a little lifted for me, I would like it a bit richer to cut the milk more but it sure wont stop me from drinking the rest.
    Im now of two minds about extending 1st-2nd crack time cause I know many espresso drinkers like a lifted middle palate and I dont want to lose the fruit. Maybe just a little extension?
    Mark--what time for the cupping on Saturday and on Sunday for the espresso tasting?
    Ill deliver my beans during the week--work will need some more beans anyway, so Ill be coming in.
    Greg

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    My first batch on Saturday I took to the very first snap of SC - or what sounded to me like the first snap and was about two to three minutes after the end of FC in the Coretto. I stopped the roast and immediately cooled it.

    When I tasted it after day two it was a bit acidic, but during the week it has settled down a lot and is much smoother and richer with the dark stone fruit Hazbean described and a hint of cocoa.

    I did some more the same way wednesday and it seems to be developing about the same.

    I will be roasting my 500gms today to send to Mark for next Saturday.

  29. #29
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    I just tasted my second roast of this and even though it has had only 30 minutes of ageing, it is smoother, less acidic and more to my taste, although the fruit is much reduced. I managed to stretch the time between the first pop of 1st crack to the first pop of 2nd crack to 6 minutes. Next roast--in about an hour--and Ill try for 5 minutes 1-2. The acidic roast was only 4 minutes 1-2. Ill be very interested to see how these age by next weekend.
    Im also looking forward to tasting other roasts--please bring along your roasting notes everyone. After tasting all the roasts I suspect Ill have ALL NIGHT to review them!
    Greg

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Roadtin notes??? erm, dont have any of those, apart from bunged them in turned on the mcoretto and the HG and off I went... ;D

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Finally got 500g packed up and ready to go. At 220g green in the Gene, it
    takes three batches to make 500g, so I tried to get them the same, with
    reasonable success, stop times within 30 seconds of each other. Greg, I was
    getting 5 to 5:30 between FC and SC start, so will be interesting to compare.

    After all that, I looked at what was left over and thought hmm I can do a wok
    roast with that, so gave it a try. Much better than last time I tried, which was
    before I knew anything about roasting. 300g in the wok (big cast iron base
    helps with the heating), moved along quite well, yellowing at 6:30, FC around
    13-14 (reasonably even at that stage), but longer than I would have liked to
    SC at about 22. Unfortunately I pulled it a bit early, due in part to
    mis-interpreting an increase in smoke as rolling SC, and in part to fear of
    being murdered for ruining the wok. :) I dont think it will be hard to pick this one in
    cupping ...

    Yes Ill have my roasting notes.

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Well (courtesy of KJM) several bags of coffee were deposited at the
    Coffee Barun earlier today, so pretty much ready to go this weekend.

    Apparently proceedings will get under way *** 3pm Saturday. ***

    I did a quick cupping of mine before sending them off. Managed to
    maintain the subtle dark fruit notes observed earlier with moderate
    acidity (which seems to settle nicely with a few days age). Looking
    forward to trying it again after a week and comparing with everyone
    elses!

    Also cupped my wok roast which was interesting -- it started off a
    little sour, but that faded after a minute or so, with some but not
    excessive acidity and then becoming predominant a dusky / earthy
    flavour that was present in all the Sigri roasts (quite different from
    eg Toraja earthiness, seems to me to be specifically Sigri). It didnt
    come through as such in espresso, but Im sure contributed to
    the cocoa / mocha notes.

    Anyway its been fascinating to focus on one bean for a whole week.
    Should do it more often. Especially an interesting bean like this one --
    good choice Mark!

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    MOST OF SAMPLES IN

    CUPPING @ 3PM ON sAT

    SEE YOU THERE

    COME ONE COME ALL

    IF YOU HAVE A SPECIAL SPOON BRING HIM TOO!!

    MARK

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Sorry, I cant make it today.

    Please enjoy yourselves and let me know what you thought of my roast.

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Espresso cupping tomorrow @ 1.30pm

    see you there

    Mark

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    So, how did it go in SA guys?

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...


    Theyre obviously keeping us in suspense.... How cruel.

  38. #38
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky link=1208926653/30#36 date=1211182795
    Theyre obviously keeping us in suspense.... How cruel.
    Either that or theyre still at it! ;D

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    OK. OK. All a bit hectic at the moment. Rest assured lots of
    interesting things happened. Mark is writing a report which
    will come along in a day or two. I made it for the cupping
    on Saturday but unfortunately missed the espresso fun
    yesterday as I had to work all day.

    There were nine roasts all neatly lined up with cupping forms
    etc when we arrived. These were three Gene Cafe, two Hottop,
    two Corretto, Marks Has Garanti, and one wok roast.

    Have to go now, will try to post some impressions later.
    There were no definitive "winners" and "losers" as there
    were different preferences from different people on both
    cupping and espresso, with these preferences somewhat
    mixed over the roasting styles. But some interesting
    observations which will come out as we post more ...

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Quote Originally Posted by hazbean link=1208926653/30#38 date=1211185716
    ... There were nine roasts all neatly lined up with cupping forms etc when we arrived. These were three Gene Cafe, two Hottop, two Corretto, Marks Has Garanti, and one wok roast ...
    We also had 9 lined up ere in Qld, but predominantly Corretto based (7 of 9).

    The versatility of roasting mechanisms, & results, brought to the party by you SA CSers sounds alone as a great basis of discussion - let alone getting into the cupping (2 days cupping, one plunger the other espresso ... great commitment!).

    Onya ;)

    Methodology of roast wasnt focussed upon so much up here on Sunday (except comparing to Jasons Diedrich) due to commonality of machine used, but more of how the Cuban roasted via differing temp tamps, & consequent slurp in the cup ... geez, Belinda was there, so it was testimony to her that the Corretto reigned supreme as the choice way of home-roasting :D

    So, (or is that SO), how was Sigri? :-?



  41. #41
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Well i today cupped a sampe from the wok and a sample from a bread oven (didnt know it at the time) and funily enough, preferred the the wok, light fresh and delicious with lots of sweetness.

    Love when i get suprised!

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Results! We need results!!

  43. #43
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Pullman link=1208926653/30#41 date=1211327559
    Results! We need results!!
    Cmon Croweaters..... Youre dragging the chain a bit with this ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1208926653/30#42 date=1211355727
    Cmon Croweaters..... Youre dragging the chain a bit with this ;)

    Mal.

    Yep..... I want to know how the roasts from the variety of roasters used compared to the commercial roast......

  45. #45
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    While I dont know the official results I do know a tiny bit of a teaser that Gregs measured up very very well, Congratulations!!

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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Sorry havent had much to say this week, going to China for three week
    working trip on Friday, preparation takes a lot of time.

    Ill make a few comments about the cupping session on Saturday. Mark
    has detailed scores which he will post with his comments before too
    long Im sure. My cupping experience is certailnly limited by comparison!

    After going through the lineup a few times, I focussed on four that were
    standing out (in my opinion; others were slightly different). These were
    two that showed noticeably more sweetness and had good depth, one that
    was nicely balanced, and one very nice typical Sigri characteristics but a
    touch brighter (too my perception anyway). Then I noticed a third with
    similar sweetness to the first two.

    It turned out that the three showing this sweetness were the three Gene roasts,
    the one I saw as balanced was Marks, and the other, one of Gregs HT roasts.
    Which was best? Personal preference I think would decide that.

    What I find interesting there is that the three Gene roasts all had a similar
    characteristic. Need to work at it more to figure out why.

    Marks blind cupping had the *Has Garanti roast a couple of points ahead,
    then lucindas Coretto roast, then 1 pt back a group of three
    together (2 Gene and HT), then another group with the same score
    (1 Gene, 1 HT and 1 Coretto). Last of course was my wok roast;
    it was actually quite pleasant to drink, just technically not very
    good "coffee".

    What to make of all that? Hmm.

    As for the espresso session, unfortunately I couldnt make it. But
    from a brief conversation with Mark I get the impression that the
    Coretto roasts droppped off a bit here (lighter roasts?), but that
    the Gene, HT and HG roasts were all pretty close together. Will
    leave it to Mark to elaborate on that.

    All very interesting. Obviously need to do it again ...



  47. #47
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: S.A. CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

    Nice summary hazbean, I can only add a little bit. All of this (bar roast notes) is from memory.

    Mark Barun was the only judge to actually score the 9 different roasts. Kiril (http://www.espressorun.blogspot.com/) did a non-numeric evaluation and ranking.

    From my rememberance the rest of us cuppers were gross amateurs and spend time tasting, trying to work out what we were tasting, talking, and referring to the score sheets for ideas. In all it was a good afternoon. All tasting (on the Saturday) was double blind.

    The coffees were all remarkably even in the scoring, varying from a low of (about) 65 to a high of 75 points. Mark actually managed to score his own roast (double blind remember) as the best, with most roasts in the low 70s. My Gene Cafe roast scored 70--a three way tie for either 3rd or 4th place.

    Kiril was generous enough to rate my roast as the best of the day--balanced, chocolate with dark fruit, and very smooth, with good body and sweetness. This was enough for me and confirmed that home roasting is in my home to stay.

    We all made comments about what we liked and how we thought they would go in various coffee techniques. The wok roast was very light and enjoyed for its predominant fruit and was recommended for a black coffee--french press or similar.

    The darkest roast had the best aroma and it was anticipated it would make a great espresso--probably with milk. Most of the other roasts were more "middle of the road" with varying fruit, chocolate, and acidity levels.

    My roast:
    300 gm of the PNG Sigri in a Gene Cafe.
    Set temp to 230C and on first crack reduced the temp to 220C in two steps 30 sec apart. Second crack occurred 6 minutes later and was let go for .6 minutes more until just into rolling. Cooling was automatic.

    I like my roast stretched a bit between 1st and 2nd crack to develop the chocolate flavours and smoothness and to reduce the acidity without the beans getting too dark. Mark says he prefers his roasts a bit more acidic as he drinks his ristretto short black. I make a piccolo latte from by doppio ristretto and find the brighter more acidic roasts make the milk taste like its off.

    I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask questions and test my memory.

    Greg



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