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Thread: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

  1. #1
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    Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    Have had Rocky for about 18-24 months now from new. Put through about 2 espresso a day on average (so its not had huge use). I have cleaned it twice during that time, the latest being this weekend.

    I did the following:
    1) Took the finger guard and hopper off
    2) removed the top burr
    3) Cleaned, vacuum, brushed etc
    4) Put the burr on, all the way till the burrs can touch themselves. The eased off a bit. This is, as far as i can tell, my "zero" point.

    This leads me to my problem... If i screw in the hopper now, the zero point is when the burrs are actually touching. This means when i start the grinder on grind "10", and gradually move in, i can hear the burrs start to touch at about 4-5.

    If i move the hopper to the next set of holes, then i grind at "0", the grind is far too course.

    So, whats the deal? What have i done wrong?

    The other thing that strikes me as odd is i used to be able to clog Silvia with a blend thats too fine. Now if i move the grinder to the finest setting, im still getting a 15 second pull on a double basket. (this is the reason i want to get it finer, for a longer extraction).

    Rob

  2. #2
    Member chonski's Avatar
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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Is it possible that you screwed the hopper back on in the wrong position?

    I think the theory is that the long screw that protrudes from under the hopper needs to stay to the right of the button you depress to change the grind setting.
    To see what I mean in pictures...look at step 10 of this page:
    http://www.sweetmarias.com/rockyhopperfix.html
    Does that help?

  3. #3
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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    hi there,

    yep, got that in the right spot, so when i approach "0" the screw stops it from going further... The only problem is that by #2-#3 the burs are starting to touch, and by #0 the are well and trually bound.

    The only thing i can think of is that my burrs are shot... I used to be able to choke my machine, now i cant.

    I have only put through about 25-35kg of coffee so im a little surprised.

    Rob


  4. #4
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D707D7276737376747A711F0 link=1301910491/2#2 date=1302075982
    when i approach "0" the screw stops it from going further... The only problem is that by #2-#3 the burs are starting to touch, and by #0 the are well and truly bound.
    Welcome Rob.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    When you refer to the Burrs as touching, do they make a continuous metallic whining noise or is it more a chink-chink sort of sound, as if the Burrs are touching once per revolution at a high spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D707D7276737376747A711F0 link=1301910491/2#2 date=1302075982
    The only thing i can think of is that my burrs are shot... I used to be able to choke my machine, now i cant.
    Seriously doubt that the Burrs are worn out mate. Genuine Rancilio Burrs will last for years and years in a home situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D707D7276737376747A711F0 link=1301910491/2#2 date=1302075982
    I have only put through about 25-35kg of coffee so im a little surprised.
    I would be too, theyre probably not even bedded in properly yet... Once you get to about 20+ times that amount of coffee, the Burrs may be getting a little less efficient than ideal...

    Dont get too hung up on where your actual Zero is as it it isnt necessary to have it coincide with 0 on the setting scale. Its more a situation that you know where it is as a simple reference. Much more important that the actual grind setting you use, for espresso say, is held within a fairly narrow band from one coffee to another, one bean type to another, beans age, etc.

    Probably the only time I get concerned with where the genuine Zero location is, is when I intend to strip the grinder down for a thorough clean. That way, when I go through the re-assembly steps, I am able to Index the preferred grind setting to the actual Zero, not something on a printed scale or what have you. This at least gets you back into the same ballpark grind setting you had before stripping her down.

    Also, quite a few of us usually remove the Blocking Screw if youre the only person using the grinder. Youre not likely to recklessly wind the setting down such that you lock the Burr Plates together and on the plus side, the Screw no longer presents as a nuisance when you want to do a quick clean out.

    Anyway mate, hope this helps a bit.... :)

    Mal.

  5. #5
    KJM
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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Rob: I used to have a Rocky, and have torn it down to clean on a few occasions!

    Your post says removed the top burr. My guess is that there is a tiny bit-o-grot sitting under it which makes it protrude a tiny bit more than it ought.

    Happened to me once. PITA - you discover this only after you put the thing back together...

    I suspect removal of top burr and cleaning of both it and the seat will resume normality ;)

    Cheers
    /Kevin

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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Excellent, thanks for your replies Mal and Kevin.

    Yes it makes a little chink-chink noise at about 4, and an awful noise if i wind it in further. I will do the teflon tape mod as the sound vanishes after i slightly lean on the hopper (indicating a bit of slop in the thread im assuming and non-parrallel burs).

    I guess what im concerened about is that fact im not getting my extraction times in the high twentys, and really im overdosing to get it into the high teens. I put this down to the grind not being fine enough.

    Im assuming im overdosing because the coffee is above the ridge in the [double rancillio] basket. There is also quite a pronounced indentation where the shower nut pushes into the puck. Cant be my tamp because that is quite firm.

    Kevin: When you mention the muck under the top burr, do you mean muck in the thread, or muck between the burrs?

    thanks all, Im determined to get this sorted.


  7. #7
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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by 302D202F2B2E2E2B29272C420 link=1301910491/5#5 date=1302086342
    Kevin: When you mention the muck under the top burr, do you mean muck in the thread, or muck between the burrs?
    I think Kevin might be referring to some foreign matter (coffee) getting between a burr-plate and the carrier its fixed to. Did you actually remove the burr-plate(s) from their respective carriers Rob? I took your statement to mean that you removed the burr carrier, not the actual burr-plate itself..... :-?

    Quote Originally Posted by 302D202F2B2E2E2B29272C420 link=1301910491/5#5 date=1302086342
    I guess what im concerened about is that fact im not getting my extraction times in the high twentys, and really im overdosing to get it into the high teens. I put this down to the grind not being fine enough.
    So, even when you grind with the Burrs slightly touching, the grind is still not fine enough?

    Mal.

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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Sorry yes, i removed the carrier only (the brass bit with the thread on it), didnt actually remove the bur.

    I did the teflon tape fix and it appears to have made it a little better. Instead of hearing the "chink chink" sounds at about 4, im getting it at about 3.

    This means that now i can get more of a "mouse tail" (2mm diamter stream) instead of a rat tail (about 4mm) from a naked portafilter.

    Thanks all for the help, ive had the rocky/silvia combo for nearly two years and i still dont feel as though ive got it nailed - who would have thought coffee would be so hard!

    Rob




  9. #9
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6974797672777772707E751B0 link=1301910491/7#7 date=1302164238
    Thanks all for the help, ive had the rocky/silvia combo for nearly two years and i still dont feel as though ive got it nailed - who would have thought coffee would be so hard!
    Youre most welcome Rob. Weve all been caught up in similar circumstances at one time or another, so always enjoy helping each other out, on the journey towards the enjoyment of great coffee.... 8-)

    Making great coffee isnt really "hard" per se. Its more about understanding the processes and why certain aspects of technique need to be employed. If youre still finding it a bit difficult to pull it all together, maybe you should consider taking part in some training with a reputable specialist trainer - Such courses are worth their weight in, er... Gold Beans, in my opinion. :)

    Anyway mate, glad to hear that things are starting to get back on track for you. ;)

    All the best,
    Mal.

  10. #10
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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Ive only just down the deep clean on the rocky myself, without taking the burr plates off, never had this issue, but the first time I put the thing together I was short by a full turn and what I thought would be espresso grind was coarser than plunger...

    What mal and kev say soudns about right

    only thing I can think of is that the top burr carrier is not aligned correctly for some reason

    when I put mine back together, getting the damn thing to screw back on properly took a few goes to get is screwing on flush, you may want to check that it is actually flush and you havent crossed the threads by mistake

    just a thought is all

  11. #11
    KJM
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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    I dont think itll be cross threaded - youd never screw it on!

    If the burr hasnt been removed - then Im a bit puzzled - the thing just screws together.. There is a tiny bit of up-n-down play though - if you get some coffee grit into the actual thread you might just cock it slightly which would account for the one point touching.

    Sorry - really thought youd removed the burrs!

    /Kevin

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    A_M
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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3028322F333439222F29400 link=1301910491/9#9 date=1302178865
    when I put mine back together, getting the damn thing to screw back on properly took a few goes to get is screwing on flush, you may want to check that it is actually flush and you havent crossed the threads by mistake
    You always turn the top in the reverse direction and when you feel a little click (it drop into the start position) you then screw in as per teh correct rotation.

    As per the manual / user instructions and as designed to ensure that the top goes on with ease and to reduce teh chance of a cross thread experience.

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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    AM

    Sounds like I had better review the book before my next tear down

    So in short, to get the top burr back on, go counter clockwise to get it positioned then go clockwise to do it up?

    crazy designs I had a laugh

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    A_M
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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by 726A706D71767B606D6B020 link=1301910491/12#12 date=1302262646
    AM

    Sounds like I had better review the book before my next tear down

    So in short, to get the top burr back on, go counter clockwise to get it positioned then go clockwise to do it up?

    crazy designs I had a laugh
    Actually logical if you understand the reasoning and when working with fine threads. Any number of tricks are used to ensure the threads can be located correctly, and this way is very good.

    However if one jumps in, assumptions will always catch you out. And yes I have been caught on other systems. Once bitten twice shy, hence I stay away from flowerpots ;)



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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Hi All,

    Starting to get a much longer extraction in the mid to high 20s now.

    I reccomend a quick wind of teflon tape around the top burr carrier to eliminate the slop.

    Now... to PID Silvia...

    Rob

  16. #16
    KJM
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    Re: Rocky help - have i done something wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by 130E030C080D0D080A040F610 link=1301910491/14#14 date=1302268150
    Now... to PID Silvia...
    Id rate that as one of the best things you can possibly do... Although - just having a temperature display is close to good enough!

    The slop in the threads seems to vary a bit from grinder to grinder - I guess it depends on how the lathe was set when the threads were cut...

    Im still a bit puzzled as to what changed when you re-assembled though - it is basically a threaded nut and I cant imagine what would have cocked the grinder plates unless you removed the burrs. Mysterious!

    /Kevin



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