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Thread: Rocky Upgrade

  1. #1
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    Rocky Upgrade

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I am interested to know if you were to upgrade from a rocky grinder what would you choose and why. The grinders I am considering are
    1 - Cunil Cafe Tranquillo
    2 - Macap M4
    3 - Mazzer Mini
    Would I see an improvement in coffee?
    I like the idea of doserless as the Rocky is a doser !

    Thanks
    Croweater

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lovey's Avatar
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    Re: Rocky Upgrade

    How much of a budget do you have?
    If its large, then another machine you could consider is a Mazzer mini e, which is a doserless also. Apparently theyre the ducks nuts, but fairly pricey.

  3. #3
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    Re: Rocky Upgrade

    It not a matter of budget it is more of an issue of end result quality!
    For example are all burrs more or less the same they maybe I would have thought not but I dont know?
    Do some burrs have a better cutting edge are the replacement burrs individually pack as to protect the cutting edge or are they throw together in shipment so hardened burrs can bang and clang together dulling the edge before you even use them?
    Thats the sort of thing I would be interested in hearing about. How sharp is sharp or does it even matter?
    Im a function over form guy and more interested in why and how a product produces a great result.

  4. #4
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Rocky Upgrade

    Hi Croweater,

    My understanding of what makes one grinder better than another from the coffee quality angle only, is that the coffee beans must be milled such that the resulting cuttings are of uniform size and remain consistently so, with little or no variation from one grinding session to another. Also, this must be achieved with minimum heating of the cuttings so as to result in losing little, if any, of the valuable volatile substances.

    Grinders that achieve this day in and day out are usually Conical Burr grinders because of the larger cutting surface area versus diameter. This means that the Conical Burrs are able to do the same job re throughput (in theory) as that of a much larger Flat Burr grinder. The converse of this is also true and is what you usually find in most readily available Conical Burr grinders, in that the Burr Rotational Speed is reduced, usually via a gearbox, to reduce heat caused by friction while still allowing for a reasonable throughput.

    One of our many Pros might like to chip in and give you real-life info from a more practical view-point than just that of theory. All the best,

    Mal.

  5. #5
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    Re: Rocky Upgrade

    Realistically, I dont think you would be able to tell the difference between coffees made using any of the 4 grinders you mentioned. Atleast not any difference that might be attributed only to the difference in grinds between the grinders.

    I reckon your rocky is as good as any of them in the "grind quality" department.

    The other three will THEORETICALLY give you a better control on the grind setting because the steps between adjustment stops are closer (and in the case of the MM its "stepless" so put in anywhere you like) together so you can set at a more "accurate" grind for the purpose.

    A lot of commentators on the net go on and on about the NEED for stepless adjustment in order to get the very best but I am not sure this is not just status symbol / image / branding stuff and if we all got together and did BLIND tastings to try & see if we could pick the diff betwenn brews made with different grinders that are entirely euqivalent in every other way except for stepped VS stepless adjustment (eg M4/5 vs MM), my money would be betting that no one could tell the difference really given that you get variations in the brews from other variables involved in the coffee making process..........!

    You can regulate your own technique in coffee making to account for "steps"...just that the steps on the rocky are further apart than they are on any other quality grinder I know of.

    So to answer your next question (that you havent asked yet).......if I was given the choice of a rocky and any of the other three and money was no object, I would take either of the M4/5 or MM but not the other two.

    The reasons are simple and selfish.....rocky looks rough and does not give quite the same level of satisfaction in use(and how do you measure personal satisfaction????) *- for me - than the real small commercial *grinders in the group (M4/5 & MM). They look stunning by comparison, are better built and extremely well finished and...they sound and operate better in use (eg compare professional doser units on M4/5 & MM to the crappy thing on the rocky)!

    The tranquillo suffers from messiness / excess static / and really only just looks like a utility item..and I am not looking for items that look minimalistic / utility (and to a certain extent rocky suffers from this too). Also not interested in the electronically timed dose setup it offers, and prefer the "naked beak" outlet on other so called doserless grinders to the round hopper outlet on the tranquillo. But that is not to say it isnt a good little small commercial utility grinder.

    So there you have it...a kind of personal comparison on 4 grinders that realistially probably all grind to the same quality, but are not the same.

    Regardz,
    FC.
    PS should explain that we have sold all of the above at one time or another and still sell 3 of the 4 right now, so not trying to "sell" one item over amnother just because I may not sell it.*

  6. #6
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    Re: Rocky Upgrade

    I certainly agree that the doser on the rocky is poorly designed I dont know why they bothered. Does the Macap M4 come in doserless or with a better quality doser it probaly doesnt matter. Fresh Coffee can you send me a pm on price of the M4.

  7. #7
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    Re: Rocky Upgrade

    The M4 doser sweeps pretty clean, but not as clean as a modified mazzer doser and is not as easy to modify. The doserless M4 is designed to grind into deli bags and has the same problems that many doserless grinders have, as well as a spout that is relatively hard to brush clean.

  8. #8
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    Re: Rocky Upgrade

    Greetings Croweater,

    and many thanks for your rquest for info. Ill get a message off tomorrow.

    Came in late today from the combined Aroma / Int Catering Trade Fair thing and am very very tired.....but well! Aside from the work / coffee special interest aspect, the weekend away from "regular" work represented "time off...." and a very nice time indeed. There was lots of networking at ICTF, to the point where you travel 10 feet and run into someone else you know. Makes for slow going to get through the show, but you get to talk to people you havent seen for a while and some are really nice people in the industry.

    Ok to get back on topic I was pleased when I got in today to find that the contents of our latest container shipment is strewn all over the floor in the back of the warehouse. A quick count this arvo about 5 oclock showed my M5 / M4 / MC4s are there as ordered. There should be a mixture of the regular silver as well as chrome bodies but I didnt get to that.

    To answer your question with regard to the M4. As the M4 & M5 are the same grinder just with the choice of smaller M4/larger M5 hopper, you can take your pick of either one with the doser unit OR the polished exit tube with smaller or larger hopper. The NON doser grinder with the exit tube is intended to be a "deli" grinder and that means the exit tube has a a sprung / hinged clip on the top thats intended to hold a 250 gram packet over the end of the tube while coffee flows down the tube and into the bag. It s a nice polished cylindrical aluminium tube, not the plastic beak affair you get on the cheaper grinders.

    Its all a bit academic really because grinders of this size are relatively small in terms of commercial use so very few commercial operators actually buy them.....most M4 / M5 / MM grinders in our market now are purchased for special interest domestic use...and some opt to take the C model (as in MC4 or MC5 which is the deli grinder code ie without doser unit) and use it in a "doserless" situation.

    I honestly havent had anyone mention they are not happy to have purchased the "C" model from the point of view of possible messiness when using this model in a "doserless" way to grind straight into the coffee filter/group handle. The tube is relatively easy to brush clean...you just poke an artists brush up the thing easily & move it around after each use. Every now and then if you wish you can suck it out with a vacuum cleaner but thats not compulsory and if you keep it brushed, probably dont need to do this anyway.

    So there you have it, will unpack one tomorrow & see if any small detail changes / improvements may have been made by the manufacturer since the last consignment came in.

    Regardz,
    FC.


  9. #9
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    Re: Rocky Upgrade

    I was at Rio Coffee yesterday and eyeballed the Mazzer grinders for the first time. The two that caught my eye were the doserless ones (although what appeard to be a grind hopper at first was actually a big funnel) with electronic adjustment and - OMG - electronic dosing. Press a button - single or double basket - and bingo. Jeez, if I had known this sort of thing existed (even at $990) Id have hung off from upgrading to the Rocky and saved up for one of these beasts.

  10. #10
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    Re: Rocky Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR link=1153468934/0#8 date=1155784856
    electronic dosing. Press a button - single or double basket - and bingo. Jeez, if I had known this sort of thing existed (even at $990) Id have hung off from upgrading to the Rocky and saved up for one of these beasts.
    Sorry to burst your microfoam DavidR ;)
    The dosing thingy on the Mini-E is rather inconsistent in terms of volume that the grinder will spit out.
    The Mahlkoenig competition grinder (from what Ive seen) has a fairly accurate dosing system. Also in 1/4 the time of the Mini. About 2-3 times the price of mini-e

    http://www.mahlkoenig.com/machines/cf-k30es.htm

  11. #11
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    Re: Rocky Upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by rice link=1153468934/0#9 date=1155787087
    Sorry to burst your microfoam DavidR *;)
    The dosing thingy on the Mini-E is rather inconsistent in terms of volume that the grinder will spit out.
    Thats actually good news - I dont feel half as bad now - really.



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