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Thread: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

  1. #1
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    Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi there, Im a new user and have a couple of questions I hope someone might be able to assist with before I go and buy a Silvia / Rocky combo.

    Essentially I wanted to know the good and bad points of the Rocky Doser v Doserless. Why would I buy one over the other?

    Secondly, where in Brisbane (affliated with this site if possible) could I buy a Silvia / Rocky combo at the right price?

    As a relative amateur, would I be able to appreciate the difference between a Gaggia MDF for $249 Ebay and the Rocky $400?

    Lastly, thankyou to all involved with this great site, I have found it very informative. ;)

    Cheers
    Walshy25

  2. #2
    LiquidHeaven
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Welcome!!!

    CS are a great bunch of people, very very helpful. I am pretty new myself and have had a steep learning curve.

    I recommend the doserless for home use. The doser on the rocky is not that crash hot, so avoid it and Ill leave my opinion at that. The MDF has problems with the doser as well... flimsy... cleaning problems etc.

    Rocky is a flat burr grinder which means that you will be getting the most consistant grind apart from a full commercial conical grinder... unbelievably expensive.

    Basically grinding is ultra important to the end product and in many peoples opinions maybe the most important thing to get right first.
    Rockys are on the middle of the scale of the flat burr, you have mazzers and macaps up the top end in the mini commercial. Rockys are built to do the job, they have a good exterior, a good motor and they are stepless... meaning that they adjust the grinding more sensitivity allowing a far more skilled approach, so that the user is the limitation and not the machine per say. So a Rocky is an excellent choice for the budget conscious, the macap and mazzers are built to survive a bomb and will outlast all of us in a home environment... overkill many say.

    So in grinding these are important things... Id support the rocky, macap and mazzer.... and think that if you have the money and want the sheebang then they are the ones that Id consider... under that get a sunbeam for $175, cause they are all the same guts.

    Silva and Rocky is popular choice and you really will have a pretty good product that you will be happy with.

    Talk to a sponsor, that do freight from anywhere in Aust. I am sure you can get a good deal, and as Ive come to learn paying the least for a machine will usually get you less help after sales... the sponsors here might be asking for more but youll discover why pretty soon and will be glad you payed that little bit extra.

    You can also check out the coffeegeek website there is tons of info there...

    Good Luck

  3. #3
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Well,
    I have a doser model and I quite like it.
    There are a couple of things you need to do to make it sweep out efficiently and stop beans getting caught (I think the beans thing happens on both), but I have become quite used to the doser and enjoy having it now.

    The cons:
    It is not really useful as a true doser. IE: The amount swept in each click is not really going to dose as a commercial setup does.

    If you want to grind large amounts of coffee in one sitting (IE: You want to grind 250g+ to take somewhere), the doserless is probably better.

    The Pros:
    It frees you up a little. You can load it up (I only grind what I need each time), turn it on and go and do other things. Like get the milk out, get the cups organised, flush the group if required etc. With the doserless, you need to hold the portafilter in place whilst grinding.

    When ready to dose, I do 3 clicks, tap portafilter on bench to collapse, do 3 more, this fills the portafilter (double), tap again, tamp, load and away we go.

    In short, I think you would incorporate either style into your routine.

    I strongly recommend you have a chat to a sponsor on the site. They might give you other options to consider.

    Dont try to save a few bucks buying on auction sites, in the end, it is false economy. Buy off someone who knows their stuff and will help you out if there are any issues.

    Brett.

  4. #4
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Doser v doserless is something that should come down to personal preference. However, like Liquidheaven and Fatboy have said, the Rocky doser isnt exactly a piece of precision engineering. Id steer clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidHeaven link=1155972397/0#1 date=1155974286
    Rocky is a flat burr grinder which means that you will be getting the most consistant grind apart from a full commercial conical grinder... unbelievably expensive.
    Often said, but seldom proven. Im yet to see anyone take a domestic conical grinder and a domestic flat burr grinder and play them off head to head. For what its worth, I think that the domestic conicals deliver a very good quality grind and I wouldnt at all be surprised if one were able to out-perform a Rocky with a stepless Iberital conical grinder.

    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidHeaven link=1155972397/0#1 date=1155974286
    Rockys are built to do the job, they have a good exterior, a good motor and they are stepless... meaning that they adjust the grinding more sensitivity allowing a far more skilled approach, so that the user is the limitation and not the machine per say. So a Rocky is an excellent choice for the budget conscious, the macap and mazzers are built to survive a bomb and will outlast all of us in a home environment... overkill many say.
    The underlined portion is incorrect. The rocky has a stepped adjustment and this is the main reason why I wish that I had a mazzer on my bench at home instead of a rocky! I find the adjustment to be a limitation relatively often ... especially when I have just come home from work after using stepless grinders.

    The one difficult part of the espresso process that I think is always under-stressed is the difficulty of dosing consistently. It is not just a matter of grind until its full. It is possible to get an extraction of the same volume and time with different grinds and different doses, but the resultant espresso will taste different. Using a larger dose tends to emphasise chocolate flavours and richer mouthfeel, whereas a lower dose will accentuate acidity and associated fruity flavours. If your grind adjustment is not sensitive enough, you can miss out on the ability to control these variables entirely because you have to vary your dose to get an acceptable extraction instead of deciding on the dose that you want and then varying the grind. However, it requires a fair bit of experience to get to this point.

    Walshy, I think that you should expect there to be some difficulty in dosing consistently at first. Until this is under control, I wouldnt expect the stepped adjustment on the Rocky to be a source of irritation.

    Cheers,

    Luca

  5. #5
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    I think you do need to take your relative weather conditions into consideration when purchasing a doser or doserless grinder. No matter what the brand.

    Very dry and low humidity conditions will create a hassle for you with static and youll find coffee grinds sticking to everything everywhere! :D

    Personally, I have the doser and only grind to fill the portafiller at the time. Also, the small issue of the dosers arms not reaching the edges of the hopper, is IMHO, a small issue. As I dose, I find that the coffee does get swept up and when I have looked into the hopper have found that the coffee has been swept up. If you find it to be a problem then get a soft bristled pastry brush and sweep it clean yourself.

    My pet hate is coffee grinds being everywhere! And being a professional barista, your work area must be kept clean so I find myself constantly wiping stuff down. At home, I really hate seeing those stray coffee grinds and I imagine that for myself I would hate being an owner of a doserless version of any grinder! :o

    It all comes back to personal preference. I think that we do very well with the Rocky doser and Silvia combination here at home. Even my other half, who is not trained and only has taken a few tips from me can get himself a very reasonable, even drinkable cup of long black when he wants it! He did take a bit to get used to it, but we all do that! :D

    Youll get heaps of varying info and advice from a lot of CSers here. It will ultimately be up to you to decide what youll like to have gracing your kitchen bench! (and what youll like to clean up afterwards too!)

    Good luck.

  6. #6
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Quote Originally Posted by Walshy25 link=1155972397/0#0 date=1155972397
    Secondly, where in Brisbane (affliated with this site if possible) could I buy a Silvia / Rocky combo at the right price?
    Gday Walshy25,

    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs [smiley=thumbsup.gif],

    For Brisbane members, check out Barazi here... http://www.barazi.com.au/ or click-on their link in the top L/H corner of the page. They can help you out with most combinations of machines and grinders :) so dont worry that Silvias or Rockys might not be listed. All the best,

    Mal.

  7. #7
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Quote Originally Posted by Walshy25 link=1155972397/0#0 date=1155972397
    Essentially I wanted to know the good and bad points of the Rocky Doser v Doserless. Why would I buy one over the other?
    When I purchased my rocky I was set on buying a mazzer mini and walked out with a silvia/rocky combo. The advice provided was that the Rocky is 95% as good as the mazzer mini and I wouldnt notice a difference. This is completely not the case.
    If I was to purchase a rocky again, Id go for the non dosered. The build quality on the doser isnt great and you have to be gentle on it or you may risk damaging it - I had a doser replaced under warranty.
    Since then I have upgraded to a mazzer mini and have found the grind quality infinitely better. IMHO the build and grind quality of the mazzer is well worth the additional $.

  8. #8
    LiquidHeaven
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1155972397/0#3 date=1155983953
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidHeaven link=1155972397/0#1 date=1155974286
    Rocky is a flat burr grinder which means that you will be getting the most consistant grind apart from a full commercial conical grinder... unbelievably expensive.
    Often said, but seldom proven. *Im yet to see anyone take a domestic conical grinder and a domestic flat burr grinder and play them off head to head. *For what its worth, I think that the domestic conicals deliver a very good quality grind and I wouldnt at all be surprised if one were able to out-perform a Rocky with a stepless Iberital conical grinder.
    Luca

    Here are some reviews...
    http://www.home-barista.com/feature-spotlight-grinders.html

    some home conical grinder can have resin set burrs and Ive read home conicals can have a wobble in the grinding. I am looking for the links because I did do my research before my purchase, I then spent more to get a flat burr. *

    Go down and look at "Grind Quality"...
    http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-stuff.html

    Though this is just on the home barista site and there is other info out there that Ive read.

    My mistake if the rocky is not stepless. But everyone agrees about its doser.

    Home conicals are excellent value, but I am still reasonably sure that the flat burrs are better in grinding, reliablity, heat... but maybe not surface area... conicals would probably have less contact than flat burrs (generally meant to be a good thing). (just from memory)

  9. #9
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidHeaven link=1155972397/0#7 date=1156075445
    some home conical grinder can have resin set burrs and Ive read home conicals can have a wobble in the grinding. I am looking for the links because I did do my research before my purchase, I then spent more to get a flat burr.
    Just to get a minor point out of the way, I have read of plenty of rocky owners who teflon tape their burrs to stop them wobbling.

    Id love to get a gander at those reviews if you could find them. Theres so damned much written about coffee stuff on the internet that its easy to drum up conjecture and conflicting opinions. Ive come to the conclusion that the best possible thing to do is to just try things out for yourself. One good example that spins to mind is the whole tamp, tap, polish, tamp routine. Last year it was an essential part of everyones technique. This year when we put our new machine in I pulled the bottomless portafilter out to make sure that I wasnt getting channelling when I was getting used to it. Embarassingly, there was a fair bit of it happening. We were all kind of miffed. The uh-huh moment was when I decided to just dose and tamp once. I havent had any channeling since.

    Back on topic, Jim, who wrote the guide that you linked to, had the following things to say about grind quality in his Innova Conical review and Mazzer Mini review:

    The Mazzer produces fines at about the same miniscule rate as the Innova conical, and produces a shot that is as good or slightly better. The ground coffee itself is easier to handle, since its less fluffy than a the conicals output.
    GRIND QUALITY
    Heres where the Innova conical makes the grade big time;the grind is in the same league as that of any commercial grinder. The test results Mark gives in the detailed review are mirrored by my own experience. The grind is extremely even, and this permits a finer grind, since theres no dust to choke the espresso machine, and since it creates a more even extraction. In addition, the stepless adjustment makes it easy to achieve perfect shot timing.

    All this show up in the cup. Espresso from it has better crema, and the origin flavors are simultaneously less astringent and more distinct than in shots from my old Mulino, or even from the NS Grinta and Isomac Granmacchina that I had a chance to try out.
    Of course, to confuse matters even more, Jim is currently using a grinder with both flat and conical burrs ;P

    The HB buyers guide is great, but it doesnt talk about the home conicals.

    To confuse matters more, you can also take a look at Alan Frews grinder evaluation and sunbeam grinder review. I think that Fresh_Coffee also posted a recent head-to-head comparison between a mazzer super jolly and a lux type grinder in which he concluded that grind quality was identical. Im sure that it would be equally possible to drum up a list of people saying the opposite. Then theres the whole factor that not all of the cheap conicals will necessarily be equivalent.

    There are a heap of mazzer vs rocky head-to-head trials documented and they are all pretty unanimous in saying that the mazzer is superior. But I havent read anything where there is a rocky and a conical on the same bench at the same time. The closest thing that I can think of is having a lux in for a play at the cafe that I used to work at; we thought that the adjustment was inadequate, but the grind quality seemed OK compared with the mazzer major that we had. Of course, it wasnt stepless, so it wasnt possible to dial it in for the same dose. Unfortunately, I dont have access to an iberital or an ascaso, or Id do it myself at some stage.

    Anyhoo, like I said before, the best advice must surely be to see the machines in action and taste the results if at all possible.

    Cheers,

    Luca

  10. #10
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Wow - thankyou to everyone for you honest advice and feedback!

    As somewhat of a new user of home machines your assistance is greatly appreciated.

    I think the Doserless option is sounding like the one for me, although Alan Frews review of the Sunbeam at is making it look like great value at $170.

    Im going to check out Brisbane CBD stores today to see if I can locate one at this price.

    Thanks again
    Walshy25

  11. #11
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Quote Originally Posted by Walshy25 link=1155972397/0#9 date=1156121571
    although Alan Frews review of the Sunbeam at is making it look like great value at $170.
    Hi again Walshy25,

    While I have every respect for Alans opinion concerning coffee and its extraction, I cant help feeling that most people who buy the Sunbeam EMO480 will find that it falls short of the ideal quite soon, if for no other reason than it has very coarse adjustment steps which can play havoc for newbies trying to dial-in their technique to say nothing about the grinder/machine requirements.

    Conical burr grinders are great but that doesnt mean that every conical burr is. A great little conical grinder is the Ibertal Challenge, being very well made with a high build quality and stepless grind adjustment that will see you through to any level of espresso machine upgrade. I would give serious thought to your future requirements before making a final decision about the Sunbeam grinder. Our site sponsors can assist you with the Ibertal and other units, doesnt hurt to ask :-??

    Cheers,
    Mal.

  12. #12
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Hey Mal, you beat me to it!

    The Sunbeam grinder is probably OK for the first six months, though. Then you can sell it to me for my french press and go and buy an iberital ;P

    It just occurred to me that the sunbeam adjustment might actually seem more precise on a sunbeam paul bassett machine because of the quadruple double basket. Can anyone comment?

    Cheers,

    Luca

  13. #13
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Hey all,

    I think for my needs at this stage in my coffee life the Sunbeam will do the job just fine. :D

    Plus I have just picked one up from Harvey Norman in Brisbane city for $165 (floor demo), so at that price it is hard to pass up.

    I will see how this little baby performs with the new Silvia hopefully in my home within a week or so.

    Cheers to all
    Walshy25

  14. #14
    LiquidHeaven
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidHeaven link=1155972397/0#1 date=1155974286
    ... under that get a sunbeam for $175, cause they are all the same guts.
    Smart choice, $165 cant complain about that! You can be happy to get as good a grinder quality of any stepless conical machine out there. They just won a design award as well.

    (Forget about our snobbish debate... all good fun :D)

  15. #15
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    Re: Rocky Doser v Doserless????

    Thanks Liquidheaven

    Ill be sure to let everyone know how it goes. :D

  16. #16
    Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Holy thread resurrection Batman!! Is doserless still the recommended for home use?

  17. #17
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    I consider a doser more versatile.

  18. #18
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    G'day "flashpixx"...

    While the Dosers on many other grinders are considered to be reasonably well designed and functional, the Doser on the Rocky is not so considered and is really very dinky...

    If you were thinking of a more upmarket grinder then sure, a Doser variant is well worth considering...

    Mal.

  19. #19
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    I've used the doserless for many years and it's still going strong. The doser just seemed like too much stuffing around for my liking. I grind fresh and straight into the PF. Now that I've upgraded to a Mini-E the Rocky is my filter brew grinder.



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