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Thread: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM5800?

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    Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM5800?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all. Just wondering if theres anyone using a Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with a Sunbeam EM5800 espresso machine, who might be able to offer some help. Im pretty new to the world of do-it-yourself, and am trying to learn as much as I can, but please go easy! Ive had the espresso machine for a few months now, and have recently acquired the EM0480 grinder after my blade grinder died.

    What setting do you use your grinder on? I started at about 12 and am now up to max courseness (over 20) and it still seems too fine. The espresso machine keeps on building up too much pressure and popping when I try to pour a shot. Most frustrating!! Ive tried tamping quite lightly but it still doesnt work.

    (The wet puck is like mud - is that how its supposed to be?)

    Ive been reading about the pressure problem that other EM5800 owners have described, so will try to source the Krups PF baskets. Is this my problem, or is the EM0480 just not suited to the EM5800....??

    Thanks for any assistance provided!

  2. #2
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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Hi CoffeeMike,

    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs [smiley=thumbsup.gif], hope we can make your journey through the world of great coffee both interesting and beneficial.

    Re your question about the Sunbeam EMO480 Grinder.... from all accounts this is an excellent little grinder that will satisfy all your coffee-making requirements for quite some time to come. As to why you are not getting the sort of espresso shots that you would expect.... it is possible that the PortaFilter Baskets in your EM580 are of the "Pressurised" variety.

    In a nutshell, great coffee and pressurised PFs do not belong in the same sentence together. I understand that there is an easy fix for this problem via the route you have indicated, re the Krupps non-pressurised baskets. One of our long time members, "mattyj" used to have a Sunbeam Espresso Machine (not sure which model) and he has posted many times about how to overcome the problem, so it might be worth your while to send him a Private Message and ask for his advice or do a search on the CS Forum to try and find relevant posts.

    Hope this helps you out :),

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Thanks, Mal, and thanks for the warm welcome! :) I plan to call Krups today to seek out the non-pressurised filter baskets. Hopefully that should do the trick.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    hmm ... if theres pressure build-up, popping portafilters etc, your baskets crema-enhancing section might be clogged up with crud. its a massive oversight from the basket manufacturers, IMHO. get some citric acid, mix a heaped table spoon with a few 100mls of warm water, stir to dissolve, and sit the basket on top of the water, so it floats.

    the water/acid (its only citric ... harmless) mix will work its way through the little hole, through the pressurised chamber and into the basket, which will fill up with water, and eventually sink. let it sit in the water for a while (15mins should do the trick).

    then rinse it all out, give the basket a good shake - youll hear water trapped in there, but if you shake it enough, it will all come out. pop it back into the pf, insert it into the machine with no coffee, and run plenty of brew water through it, to rinse out the chamber.

    brew some more coffee, and see how it goes!

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Thanks Mattyj. Im currently on hold to my local Krups service centre trying to track down the replacement filiter baskets, but Ill give your suggestion a try, too. Thanks for the advice.
    Cheers,
    CoffeeMike.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    I have the same two machines. Have been running the grinder on 11, and the pours are still too fast (~20 second doubles). Tempted to go finer but not chasing it too much as the beans arent fresh - when I start roasting Ill tweak it more, and de-pressurise my second set of baskets...

    Sounds like the machine is more the issue than the grinder - but to be sure, how does the ground coffee feel in your fingertips?

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt King link=1140956482/0#5 date=1140998925

    Sounds like the machine is more the issue than the grinder - but to be sure, how does the ground coffee feel in your fingertips?
    Thanks for the reply, Matt. Ill have to check on this at home tonight and get back to you.

    BTW - to anyone who has replaced their PF baskets with the Krups models mentioned elsewhere on this forum - I was just quoted $13.20 for the double basket (Krups part #0907163) and $16.50 for the single (Krups part #0925592) from the Adelaide Krups service centre. Do those prices seem reasonable? I read a post from Mearsey (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1128380756/21#15) that mentioned a cost of $12 including postage for both baskets from the Gold Coast service centre. Perhaps I should give them a call!

    Thanks!

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    I seem to have the same problem.If I set it at 15 or under it grinds to a fine powder around 20 grinds about right for my pavoni lever machine but anything under this just jams it up.I suppose its not a problem , just not what I was expecting . By the way , this is the first and only grinder I have ever used
    Regards Brendan

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Hi All,

    You dont have to worry about the quality of the new EMO480 Grinders... they have been reviewed by one of Australias most renowned coffee afficiandos, Mr. Alan Frew, and he gave them the big thumbs-up. You can read his review here....http://tinyurl.com/ac2vx.

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt King link=1140956482/0#5 date=1140998925
    how does the ground coffee feel in your fingertips?
    At a setting of 22, it feels a tiny bit gritty. But I didn really notice a huge difference between 5 and 22. Should the difference feel quite obvious? I could definitely feel a difference, but it didnt seem significant.

    I tried the citric acid trick tonight, but it still popped under pressure (grind was at 22). Im definitely going to have to get the Krups PF baskets.

    Now for the waiting game... The supplier said the Krups PF baskets will be 10-14 days...! :-?

    Thanks all for your assistance.

    Cheers,
    CoffeeMike.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Im by no means an expert, but I vaguely remember reading another thread about grind problems. (dont have time to try to find it at the moment) Turned out, the person took apart their machine to clean it and didnt put it back together properly. Have you taken yours apart? What made me think of this is the fact that you said there isnt much difference between the 5 or 22 setting. That was the problem of the other person. Apparenly, it is a bit tricky to put together - have to follow the manual step by step

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Thanks for the suggestion, Judy, but Ive only just bought it and havent taken it apart at all yet.

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    bc
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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Doubt the following is recommended practice but...

    I have a Breville espresso machine that had similar baskets. It did not take too long to realise that the "crema" that they produce is just forth generated by aeration as the filtrate is forced through the miniscule restrictor hole in the base of the basket. (for those who have not had to suffer a cheap machine, the Breville has a double bottom in the basket, the first with a conventional filter, and the lower one with a single small hole. The small hole is the pressure limiting step) I suspect it is designed with drip filter preground coffee in mind, and makes an impressive looking espresso when used like that..

    So what I did was to drill a series of holes through the bottom basket skin.. (carefully, with a small drill bit, as the two layers are close together). Now the pressure limiting step is coffee, namely the fineness and compaction of the grind.

    The other two steps involved the creation of a thin spacer to lift the basket up and fully compress the gasket seal on the espresso machine (it did not like having to generate real pressure, used to bypass once the grind got fine)..

    Finally removal of the "crema cup" in the bottom of the PF holder, so the filtrate just flows out.. (sorry, dont really know all the lingo yet)

    So now, I get a reasonable espresso, with real crema, nicely extracted, and kinda satisfying to have made the machine do a little better than the manufacturers seemingly intended.. It will do till Father Christmas brings a better machine.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeMike link=1140956482/0#9 date=1141039204
    I tried the citric acid trick tonight, but it still popped under pressure (grind was at 22). Im definitely going to have to get the Krups PF baskets.
    I hate to tell you this, but the krups basket wont fix the popping issue - youll have to start holding the pf in during the shot. Shot quality should improve though.

    As you look at the sunbeam grouphead, youll see that the part that the portafilter locks into is a fairly tough plastic. At first, I thought that popping portafilters was a problem with the seal getting old, but eventaully, they pop even with brand new seals. It seems to me that over time, the plastic grouphead bends out, meaning that you cant get as tight a seal. Water hits the puck at pressure, some of it escapes out the sides of the basket, lubricates the seal, and with the pressure and expansion of the puck, it works the portafilter out of the grouphead, and hey presto! youre covered in hot wet grinds.

    The only fix I found for this was to hold the portafilter in manually when pulling shots. It took me about a month or two to break that habit with my new machine!

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Im finding its popping even when the PF handle isnt moving (ie Ive jammed it in a little tighter and made sure its not moved). Ive only had this problem since getting my new EM0480 grinder. I used to have a cheaper Sunbeam blade grinder which didnt grind as fine, so the pressure build-up wasnt as great when pulling shots. However, that grinder died, so I decided to get the EM0480 after reading such great write-ups on here and by Alan Frew. However, it doesnt seem to be working for me...

    Can you (or anyone else) suggest anything else I should try??

    I ordered the Krups baskets yesterday, but from what youve said, mattyj, Im still going to have problems. I thought the EM0480 was going to make things better, not worse! I must be doing something fundamentally wrong.

    My process: Run hot water through the empty PF basket (ie in the espresso machine). Then grind from the EM0480 (currently set on 22) straight into my PF basket, tap, lightly tamp, grind a little more and tamp with medium pressure [have tried light pressure, too, but makes no difference] until the grinds are sitting a few mms from the top of the PF basket. Place the PF basket in the group head and turn so locked in tight. Press single shot button. Then it all goes pear-shaped. You can hear the pressure building up, then it all goes kinda silent for a moment, then pfffff, it pops and water leaks out the sides. Result: more wasted coffee and more frustration...! :(

    Thanks, everyone, for your help thus far.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    replace the grouphead seal. or at least unscrew the shower screen, pry out the old seal, and clean it out - there might be a fair bit of gunk in the ridge that the shower screen sits in.

    the new seal will be about $4 from your nearest sunbeam service centre.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    p.s. youll need to replace those seals every few months ... theyre really soft rubber, and they dont cost the earth, so its all good!

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Thanks for all your help, mattyj. Ive actually only had the machine for 4 months, and once I started having these problems I did pull the seal out to ensure it was clean and hadnt developed any flaws that were letting the pressure out. It seems to be OK, but perhaps its not. However, at only about $4 each I will endeavour to get a replacement (and one or two spares to have on hand...!). I had read in the user manual that the seal would need replacing every 6-12 months, but as I havent used the machine an enormous amount and have only had it 4 months, I didnt think that would be it. However, its worth replacing to eliminate the possibility.

    (Sorry if it sounds like Im knocking every suggestion everyones making by saying "Ive already done that...". In hindsight, I should have described in my initial post all that I have already tried, but I really do appreciate the suggestions.)

    To Matt King: You replied that you are using the same two machines as me, so I was wondering:
    [1] Have you found it necessary to replace the PF baskets (eg with Krups)?
    [2] Can you feel much of difference in the grind from a fine setting (say 5) to a medium (say 11) to course (say 22)? As I posted earlier, there doesnt seem to be a great difference in feel to me, so Im wondering if somehow I have a dud (ie not that the EM0480 is a dud, but that my actual item is a dud)
    [3] What does your puck look/feel like when you have finished the shot? Is it like wet mud, or is it nice and dry?
    Thanks!!

    Cheers,
    CoffeeMike

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Hi again CoffeeMike,

    Its probably fair to say that your Sunbeam Espresso Machine does not have a Pressure Relief Valve of some description fitted to the discharge side of the pump. It probably just relies on most people using store-bought pre-ground bricks which are usually ground relatively coarse.

    Such being the case, the pressure building up in your machine is probably considerably in excess of the preferred 9 BAR range to make quality shots, maybe even spiking up to in excess of 20 BAR. When you consider that the PF lock design is depending on the shear and tensile strength of tough plastic to contain this level of pressure, it becomes quite obvious that "somethings gotta give", as the saying goes.

    That being said, I dont think all is lost and once you have received your new Krupps baskets, the following procedure might be worth trying....
    In order to get the best out of a machine that is not fitted with over-pressure protection, it is important that you start developing your grind setting from the coarsest end of the grind setting scale and slowly work your way in until such time as your shots are pouring within the prerequisite 25-30 second range. Once you are getting your shots to pour within this time-frame, you can be pretty sure that the system pressure is going to fall within the 9 BAR range, and this will hopefully prevent the PF from blasting out of the Group ;D.

    The above procedure will not work reliably, I wouldnt think, when trying to use pressurised baskets as it is too easy to slip over into a critical range that will stall the pump and create the same problem you are already experiencing. The other thing that you should try though, given that your machine is still covered by warranty, is to take it back to the retailer and explain the problem to them.... it may be that for some reason, the plastic in your machine and some others is softer than specd and maybe should be replaced. I would highlight the possibility of risk to you and yours personal safety. Definitely something that Sunbeam will take seriously Im sure.

    Hope some of the above is helpful :)

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeMike link=1140956482/15#17 date=1141183130
    To Matt King: You replied that you are using the same two machines as me, so I was wondering:
    [1] Have you found it necessary to replace the PF baskets (eg with Krups)?
    [2] Can you feel much of difference in the grind from a fine setting (say 5) to a medium (say 11) to course (say 22)? As I posted earlier, there doesnt seem to be a great difference in feel to me, so Im wondering if somehow I have a dud (ie not that the EM0480 is a dud, but that my actual item is a dud)
    [3] What does your puck look/feel like when you have finished the shot? Is it like wet mud, or is it nice and dry?
    Thanks!!
    1) I havent done so, but then I only started internet coffee research about a month ago. Ill explain my situation a bit more though: Im not a hardcore coffee drinker/snob/geek, so take my words with the due diligence...

    This is our second EM5800. The first lasted a year, then developed some (it appears) thermostat-related issues and wouldnt behave properly, so it was returned under warranty. In that time it developed the popping-PF issue, though generally only if the PF wasnt inserted tightly enough. We now habitually tighten it all the way to the right, not just to the mid-point. Havent had any popping issues from the new machine. (touch wood)

    We kept the PF and baskets from the first machine, so I now have a 2nd set that I am considering de-pressurising. 8-)

    After buying the grinder in Dec 05, I figured Id better ensure I was getting the most out of it... hence the internet research and the start of geekiness.

    2) I honestly havent played with the extremes of grinding coarseness, though I definitely notice a grinding-time difference between say 16 and 9... There is definitely a flavour difference over that range, though the pour times are still too short for my liking (~20 seconds). Not sure if thats just a machine thing, however the finer ground shots taste over-extracted... 11 seems to work OK for flavour.

    I havent pushed it too far because Im not in possession of some properly fresh beans, and Im sure that will make a difference. Green beans are sitting in the pantry awaiting purchase of a popper :)

    3) Sometimes get mud-pucks, at least on the top layer, and especially if the PF is removed just after brewing. Im not sure this isnt related to the lack of a 3-way valve on the machine, which means that there is water left sitting on top of the puck. If I leave the handle in for a bit (say to do some steaming) it comes out dry (as the steam pressure is vented through the puck).

    Sorry if that raises more questions than it answers...

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1140956482/15#18 date=1141185535
    The other thing that you should try though, given that your machine is still covered by warranty, is to take it back to the retailer and explain the problem to them....
    Thanks for the information and advice, Mal. I will wait (agonisingly) for the Krups baskets to come in, but may yet resort to tackling Sunbeam on this. This, perhaps, highlights the potential perils of ebay - I actually purchased this item from a private seller on ebay. It was brand new and had never been used - was an unwanted prize. As such, I do not have a vendor receipt, but do have a delivery slip from Sunbeam to the prize recipient showing details of when it was delivered (and that it was a prize). So, I know that I am within my warranty period, but was hoping to avoid the possible headaches I might encounter due to how I acquired the item. I would think they should still honour the warranty, but wanted to avoid finding out if possible.

    Now to wait for my Krups PF baskets...

    Cheers,
    CoffeeMike

  22. #22
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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Hi again CM,

    Providing the "prize" was awarded in Australia under Australian Laws and Regs then I think you should be ok.... having the original delivery receipt from Sunbeam will definitely help. Hope the Krupps baskets help the problem though :).....

    All the best,
    Mal.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1140956482/15#21 date=1141211061
    Providing the "prize" was awarded in Australia under Australian Laws and Regs then I think you should be ok.... having the original delivery receipt from Sunbeam will definitely help.
    I spoke with Sunbeam today who advised that they will honour the warranty on this, provided I have the paperwork. So, no worries there.

    On the subject of the replacement Krups PF baskets - I commented in an earlier post that the Adelaide service agent (which is the same company that is now the sole service agent in Adelaide for Sunbeam) was going to charge me $16.50 for the single filter basket (part 0925592) and $13.20 for the double (part 0907163). Mearsay had previously posted (link here) he had received these sent to his door for around $12.00. I tried calling the 2 service agents on the Gold Coast (where Mearsay sourced his from) but to no avail, so reluctantly I ordered them from Adelaide.

    However, I decided today I would also purchase a replacement group seal, to eliminate all possible sources of trouble, so called the Adelaide service agent again, who quoted me $13.20!! Mattyj posted that these should be only around $4.00 each, so I decided to call a service agent in Melbourne. I spoke with Rob at Ellis Electrical in Dandenong (nice chap, helpful service, 03 9791 1486), who can supply the seals for only $2.00 each. And he can also supply the Krups baskets for only $8.05 and $6.30 each, respectively. (Plus $10 P&H.) Me thinks the Adelaide service agents are charging a little too much...!! Thankfully, I have been able to cancel my original order and have now placed an order with the Dandenong agent.

    In speaking with Sunbeam re my warranty queries, I let them know about the Adelaide agents pricing strategies (given that they now have a monopoly in Adelaide) to let them know how this reflects on Sunbeam. They said that the agent is an independent company and Sunbeam cant dictate what prices they can charge for spare parts, yada, yada, yada... Oh, well, let market forces decide. It just irks me that naive folks will be charged way more than they need to pay (am I allowed to say "get ripped off"?) for their parts. Even with postage I am way in front. And, in principle, I dont want to purchase from the Adelaide agent if I can avoid it.

    Before anyone has a go at me, I understand people in business have to earn a living, and Im quite OK with that. However, given the significantly different prices being charged by others (who are obviously still making a living out of it), it seems that the Adelaide agent is perhaps a little expensive.

    Anyway, enough of my ranting. If youve stuck with me and read this post to the end, youve done well! I just thought that the info might be useful for anyone else who finds themselves in my situation.

    Thanks again, all, for your assistance with my troubles.

    Cheers,
    CoffeeMike.

  24. #24
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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeMike link=1140956482/15#22 date=1141357148
    Anyway, enough of my ranting. If youve stuck with me and read this post to the end, youve done well! I just thought that the info might be useful for anyone else who finds themselves in my situation.

    Cheers,
    CoffeeMike.
    Its all good CM :),

    Mal.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    one thing that hasnt been talked too much about here but is a symptom you mention is the "mud puck". I think, in the words of guru-FC, that shows "too few grinds in the basket".

    My personal thought about the grind and not being able to discern a difference in the coffee between fine and coarse settings is that the burr carriers arent moving in relation to each other, so the burrs arent moving and the fineness isnt changing. I dont know the internals of the grinder, but there could easily be some reason this is occurring, and might help explain this? Perhaps AndyCJ can provide some sage advice on the internals, and if not, Alan Frew has pictures that may help :)

    Good luck, and welcome to the journey!

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    My troubles are over...!!

    Well, my troubles are over. I should have listened to Judys suggestion... Despite having never taken the machine apart, at Sunbeams suggestion today I checked that the top burr was sitting in correctly. It wasnt. It must have somehow dislodged in transit before I purchased it (or it never sat right in the first place). Anyway, theres now a discernable difference between fine and course, so now I just have to work out the optimal setting for my machine. (Before fixing this, the grind was so fine it was like powder, which is why it was compacting down so much and not letting any water pass through, and there was absolutely no difference between fine and course settings.)

    Thanks to all for your assistance. Its all very much appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Coffee(backinbusiness)Mike.

  27. #27
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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Ahhh,

    Its always the simple things that catch you out and get overlooked. There has to be a good lesson in there somewhere ;),

    Mal.

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    Re: Anyone using Sunbeam EM0480 grinder with EM580

    Sorry to dig this old thread up, but these old threads regarding the em5800 have been very useful to me as a new coffee brewer.

    I have finally gotten around to a kurps basket (non-pressurised), and the thing still leaked !

    arrgh,

    so I unscrewed the portafiller head group (plastic thing), to discover that a corner of it had cracked and broken. So now I ma chasing a new part for this.

    I am posting this because if anyone else finds their portahandles poping off, or the seal leaking and sputtering coffee everywhere, it may be worth checking the head group (platic thing).

    Cheers

    Brett



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