Its a bit hard to tell from a photo, but have you tried the 4 allen screws around the threaded burr carrier?
Does anyone have any ideas as to how to remove the bottom burr carrier out of this grinder?
Top burr, hex nut, brass "centrifugal" nut and bottom burr came out relatively easy, but the bottom carrier seems to be stuck fast on the tapered shaft, i presume with coffee oil and grinds... unless i have missed a (threaded) fastning somewhere?
i am loathe to use WD40.... but if i have to, i have to :(
Its a bit hard to tell from a photo, but have you tried the 4 allen screws around the threaded burr carrier?
yes, i did, but they seem to be holding/stabilising the whole "innards" against the housing, not just the burr carrier... i suspect that, if i loosen some screws on the bottom of the unit, the removal of those allen screws allows the housing to be removed from the motor.
i think that the brass carrier, with the two visible "ears" should lift off the tapered shaft so the chamber underneath can be cleaned...?? :-/
You might have to fully dis-assemble the housing to check if there is a locking screw or nut underneath the burr carrier. If there isnt a locking device, having the unit apart will give you more accesibility and leverage if you have to force the burr carrier off the shaft.Originally Posted by Lizzi link=1184736302/0#2 date=1184737701
Good luck with it.
From just looking at your photo and your description of what you have already done, I would recommend that you either borrow, buy or manufacture a "Bearing Puller". Most fittings that are attached via a tapered fit as per your grinder burr carrier, will need considerable force to "break" the lock between the shaft and the fitting.
You could make one by getting some 10mm steel plate, cut a circular shape with the same O.D. as the burr carrier, drill an appropriate hole in the centre to accommodate a 10mm fine thread, then three more clearance holes at the same radius as the threaded holes in the burr carrier to accommodate some long bolts of the same thread as the ones in the burr carrier. Buy the necessary bolts, three for the burr carrier and one 10mm fine for the centre and an intermediate 10mm fine hand tap to cut the thread for this bolt. Just need to make sure of the proper lengths required by measuring up your grinder.
Once all this is done, you sit the plate above the grinding chamber with the burr carrier threaded holes aligned with the holes in the plate, screw the three bolts through the plate and into the threaded holes, screw the 10mm bolt down through the centre of the plate until it contacts the end of the motor shaft and take up the slack. Once the slack is taken up, continue to tighten up the centre bolt until enough force is exerted on the burr carrier to pull it loose and off. To make sure that the 10mm bolt centres itself on top of the shaft, just grind a 45 degree chamfer on the end of the bolt thread so that it stays centred in the hole on the end of the shaft.
And thats it. Of course, if you can find a set of pullers that will allow you to do all this then that will be a lot easier and the preferable way to do it. If all else fails though, then the above procedure will get you out of trouble without having to disassemble the entire grinder, after which you still may find yourself having to use a puller to remove the burr carrier. Gently, gently does it though..... the burr carrier is only made of brass and this is a fairly soft alloy and easily damaged.
If I may ask, why do you want to remove the burr carrier Lizzi? Giving the grinder a complete overhaul or something? Anyway, all the best with your challenge,
you techo-CSs are worth every cup of coffee you get!! now, why didnt i think of *bearing puller.... :-[
i bought the unit yesterday in one of the secondhand shops, Mal, *(nah, ofcourse i didnt NEED it... *;) ) and once i opened it for a general clean, i realised there is a solid cake of old grinds under the bottom burr carrier.
it is rather yuck smelling, so i was hoping that there would be a reasonaby comfortable way of dis-assembling the carrier to get at the mess.
i can scrape with satay scewers and small screw drivers until the cows come home, i could hang *the motor unit upside down and syringeing hot Miltons through the grinds evacuation hole until it runs clean, or i can borrow a bearing puller ( acutally, Rob may have one in the tools...)...hmmm...
its all for fun!
Thanks heaps, Lovey and Mal...
Where theres a will Lizzi ;),
it is raining today, cosy inside... a real day for finnicky stuff!
decided to cop out of the bearing puller approach, and even the Miltons option; if the easy option doesnt work, i can always go back to "hard" street.
quietly spent some hours poking and scraping and blowing and from what i can smell ( and what i can see coming out of the machine) i have got most of the crud.
i ran some beans through it just now and the grinds coming out of it are all uniform in colour, do dark oil-saturated specks.
i pulled the shot in the very deep double basket.... and managed, (what i believe to be at least) my very first ristretto!!
55 sec pour of very fine mousetail, about 35 ml, with a yummy fruity flavour i didnt realise this blend had... after drinking it for the last 5 days!!.
to put this in perspective, this ex-commercial beastie still has its very old burr-set, with a 3-4mm "flat" wear on the outer edge of both burrs .
Ms Carimali, welcome to the family!! :-*
Well done Lizzi. *Perhaps a rag soaked in coffee cleaner will remove all the superficial oils in areas the beans come into contact.
By the way... do you keep your motorhome in one place, or are you constantly on the move? *Where do you get power for your appliances?
And what about the internet? Mobile? must cost you a fortune.
i put my answer to your questions here: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1184824727/0
it ran a bit off topic, didnt want to get intt trouble... :P
Sounds wonderful Lizzi 8-).... Whats going to happen to young Rocky now that Carri has moved in? :-?Originally Posted by Lizzi link=1184736302/0#7 date=1184811138
This is pretty normal Lizzi, these "flat" sections are pre-ground into the burr-plates to prevent the burrs catching on each other should you adjust them so close that they actually touch. No harm can occur this way :),Originally Posted by Lizzi link=1184736302/0#7 date=1184811138
Sounds like you got a real bargain there. And as Mal said, dont worry about the flats on the outer edge of the burrs.... just have a look at the edges along the grinding surface and as long as they arent blunt you probably wont need to replace the burrs for quite a while.
Check especially the edges (more like points) on the inner edge where they first contact the beans (and drag them into the burrs). This seems to be the first area which suffers wear and they become rounded and dont attack the beans as enthusiastically as they should. ::)
will do, JB...
young Rocky will stay put, Mal.. you may remember a post a few days ago where i considered buying a hand grinder for my decaf?
welllll, ::) now i will have to make the choice on which one is going to do what...
to be honest with you, the line-up on the side board looks pretty substantial, but as i explained when i came home, "its for in the house, later on, darling..."
i havent added up the weight of all this coffee stuff, but with the Bott, Rocky and Carimali plus the greens under the bed... :o :o ouch!
please dont tell Rob.... :-[
my bad... :-[... thought the flat area was bigger than usual... it aint ::)to put this in perspective, this ex-commercial beastie still has its very old burr-set, with a 3-4mm "flat" wear on the outer edge of both burrs .
pulled out the burrs again and had a closer look, no damage, inside pointy bits not super pointy, but not round either.
shell do for the time being ;)
anyone got a spare Carimali M3/pavoni ZIP/Obel Bregant hopper lying around? or knows of one? or knows of an easy to make jury-rigged/ make-shift one?
welcome to the retro grinder club.........nice score.
If it fits, you would be welcome to the hopper om my K8.
The base just sits "loosely" in the upper burr carrier which has a 50mm diameter.
Due to its immense size [1kg] and the fact I found it easier to dose staright into the throat , I dont need it.
It has a couple of cracks that I have repaired though.
Otherwise look "In that strangely glassy eyed CSer stare" at all manner of plastic containers/bottles/funnels/perspex tubing etc that you come across in $2 shops, Op shops etc..........geez, if you can find a grinder [wish I could!], surely you can find something to cutdown/invert/modify
HIya Lizzi et all,
Hey Lizzi, do you have any pics??!?!?!
I have scored a La Pavoni Zip,... wondering if its the same beastie!
Also wondering if anyone else has experience with an LP Zip, and what are they like.. apart from huge and beastie!!!
Reubster, thanks for the offer... but Carimalis throat is 67mm.
and yes, i am that strange woman wanderin the aisles *of variety-shops with machinery pieces in her hand, tape measure in her mouth.... ::)
Zedd, *i think the machine is the same... just re-badged Carimali/La Pavoni ZIP.
however, having said that, could you check what the diameter of your burrs is? the specs for the ZIP state 64mm, and the specs for the Carimali 63mm...which mine computes to.
yet in various coffee- related online shops the burrs offered ae for the Carimali/ZIP/Obel Bregant, and all 64mm *:-/
i found a supplier for spare parts here in WA, as well as an O/S one... with the cost of shipping nto much price difference.
ill PM you the sites for exploded views/parts lists.
i just got a tip from one of the *CG guys as to how to remove the bottom burr carrier... if it rains again this afternoon, i might try it! ;)
Zedd, PM sent....
from what i could get off the various websites the Carimali M3 is the same as the a Pavoni ZIP Maxi... the other ZIPs have only one button in the front...?? have a look at this link for comparison...:
I think all the Pavoni Auto grinders have two buttons on the front - as well as the main power switch... however I could be wrong.
I havent actually got mine in my hands yet,.. but I should on Monday!!!
I have seen specs for the pavoni that state a 63.5mm... maybe thats what they all are?!?!? ! :-/
Thanks for the pics... and the info! GREATLY appreciated! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Furthermore, theres a manual on pavonis website: http://www.lapavoni.it/PDF/MAN_MacinaComm.pdf
It has a burr removal procedure in the maintanence section... but its a bit vague.
You may have already seen it!
yes, i did see it, Mark and you are right, vague :-?... but the guys at CG suggested to type in "bottom burr" in the search engine of CG and read the first thread.... check it out!
it isnt raining here, so i havent tried it yet :P
That grinder of yours is even better than the average..... instead of a 4-Pole motor it is fitted with a 6-Pole job that operates at close to 850 rpm rather than the usual 1450 rpm and with about a 30% increase in output torque to boot, so is very unlikely to ever stall, no matter what you stick in there :o (better watch the stones, etc). A top grinder indeed 8-),
you have just confirmed my hopeful suspicion, Mal!!
when i read the thread on CG about the ZIP and its noisyness during operation i was expecting a rucus....when i trialled my unit in the shop and heard it hum i realised that it was probably a Maxi.... so i parted with my money happily!
looking at the score marks on the "floor" of the brass bottom burr carrier ( the bit which i have not been able to get out...) this grinder torque has tried to grind some very hard "beans" indeed: veritable score marks!
I had a laugh ;D,
I dont think the average stones that occasionally appear with our beans would worry this grinder too much, just turn em into dust before you even know theyre in there 8-),
That fitted tamper looks a little small, but the "push-rod" action looks like it would be fun.
If you decide to keep it [we know you will] you could get Greg/JavaB to turn up a Pullman "vanilla" tamper to fit on the end.
ill have to think about the tamper a bit, Reubster...
i actually have been looking for ways to remove the tamper&holder... it is a very convex & small based tamper, at a guess 55mm and its position obscures the view of the PF under the doser a tad...
dont know what ill do yet...have to work wth it for a while i suppose!
as to whether Ms Carimali will stay put? oh, yes, for sure!! she has just been promoted to "coffee grinder", and the Rocky demoted to "decaf grinder".
;) :D ;D
Looks great, Lizzi. Would stop a tank.
hmm, Rob calls it "my industrial grinder"... :-?.
....As opposed to his 9" industrial grinder.
so you see, Robusto, there IS equality.... ;)
(on some fronts, anyway..... ;D ;D ;D)
call it a mini hopper, a girls-mod, or just plain ugly ;)...main point is, it works and it is small enough for the space here in the bus!
the cups are from Kays Market, and i had to look hard for two with the exact right fit.... i took the top burr carrier with me and out of the 15 or so of the same cups on the shelf, only two sat tightly in the grinders throat.
the cup has a 450ml capacity and is made out of stainless steel., with a reasonably tight fitting lid.
no, i am NOT going to show you the inside of the cup or a better close-up.... my metal-working skills are not up to general inspection :P
suffice to say there is a hole in the bottom of the plastic bottom, the stainless steel inner-cup, and the slide ... if they line up, the beans fall out of the "hopper", if the slide is pulled out it blocks the hole in the cup, the beans are secure.
i have bought and "converted" two cups, one red and one blue.... so i can have two different beans/blends in "the hopper"....
hopper-problem "cuppered"... :)
and another one...
and the last one..
Wow! Very impressed Lizzi. Where theres a will...
And the splash of colour beats the drab smoked acrylic look of conventional hoppers.
Love the sliding stopper -- very inventive!
Well done. So neat.
*Well done. So neat.
;D ;D ;D ohh, the blessings of soft-focus photography!! But, thanks, Robusto, even if your tongue should be firmly somewhere in your cheek...
however, i will admit that the intent to create if not perfection, then at least a neat finish, *was there... ::)
cool little project, tho...more coffee stuff to play with ;)
Great solution Lizzi 8-),
What sort of cups were these exactly, prior to being upgraded to their current level of higher service? :P
they were 450 ml double-wall "thermos-style" travel cups with stainless steel inner cup and black plastic bottom, handle and lid, Mal... the ones you put in the cup holder of your car whilst driving to work...
they have a "rubberised" feel: there is a non-slip type of stuff on the powdercoat, which i have rubbed off the blue one.
they cost $7.99.
the slide is made out of a stainless steel ruler, $2.75 from the local news agency... not easy to work with (hence the crummy finish, Robusto!! :-[) but it has enough strength to act as high-tensile steel, allowing the slight wave-shape to keep the slide in place.
ofcourse now my brain is going: should-a... could-a... would have been better to... ::)
anyway, for the money i paid for the grinder and "modifications" i have had a ton of cheap fun, and very nice coffee to boot!!
Good one Lizzi,
Will have to trawl though our local shops and see if I can find something similar... like you, I find the original hopper to be a bit confronting, able to easily accommodate 1.2Kg of beans :o.... its huge. A very neat solution indeed 8-),
Great work Lizzi!!!!
Looks better than my MONSTER genuine hopper!!!! :-?
Hey Mal,.. *can you tell from the pic if mine is a Maxi!??! *Its certianly quite in its operation,.. *even with beans going through.
Thanks,.. *and sorry to hi-jack your thread Lizzi!!!!
actually, Zedd and Mal ...
i did a little more digging and found that Zedd was right when he said that ZIP Auto and Maxis all have two little buttons on the front and also discovered that according to the manual (see :http://www.lapavoni.it/PDF/MAN_MacinaComm.pdf) my machine is a"normal ZIP... on the compliance-plate in my machine it states that the motor is 250W which is the spec for the ZIP Auto, whereas the Maxi has a 370W motor.
still, enough oomph to grind and grind.... ;D
Ahh ok,Originally Posted by Lizzi link=1184736302/30#40 date=1185426059
Thought your machine was an actual Caramali M3 Lizzi, and they are definitely 6-Pole, 850rpm, 370W output jobs.
As you say though, it is still a very significant beastie and will likely never let you down. And Zedd, I was just going to suggest to you to have look at the manufacturers name-plate underneath your machine for the reasons that Lizzi has just outlined. If its marked either 370/500W, then it is a 6-Pole motor.... 250/350W, then its a 4-Pole motor. Still a great grinder by any comparison..... 8-)
my machine is a Carimali, Mal, but the M3 bit came from a website, where the M1 was without the buttons, and the M3 withm.
there is quite a bit ambiguous info about these units about, and i think , short of looking under the hood, i have to rely on the only readable info on the compliance plate: 50Hz and 250W at 240V.
i took the top off again today and tried the CG s suggestion of levering the bottom burr carrier whilst (gently) tapping the nut-screwed-on-the -shaft.
so, once the bus is on site in Vic we might make a bearing puller ( Rob hasnt got one... :( ) and work the bottom carrier loose... and do a burr change-over at the same time.
Originally Posted by Lizzi link=1184736302/30#42 date=1185428504
Guess who has a bearing puller ::) ::) and will be visiting before too long.
Makes for a very confusing scenario doesnt it :-?? Carimali rate their grinders as 500W Input on the M1/M3 leading one to believe that they have opted for the heavier duty, slower revving motor. Anyway, its probably neither here nor there as far as domestic use is concerned.
Id be very wary of trying to lever the Lower Burr Carrier Lizzi, its only soft brass and you risk distorting it this way, and that would be a real bugger :(. Looks like JB may be coming to the rescue though so hope that works out. All the best,
ehh, Father Christmas???? *:o
that would be great, JB... just bring your waders and snorkel... if the rain keeps up we will be sitting on an island *soon; the dogs are getting Surf Life-saving lessons *:P
How did you end up gettin gon with that bottom burr carrier???
i gave up... couldnt get the darn thing out :(
so, i used a wooden meat scewer to prod and poke loose as much of the old grinds and built-up rubbish as i could ...heaps came out!
i intend to repeat that in a week or so, and this time backed up by the air-compressor hose... ;)
but, she grinds beautifully... and i simply purge the doser before the first shot of the day by running the grinder for about 5 seconds, dose into the tray and dump the grinds. then i start grinding for the shot.
hows your ZIP?
I cant remember if you mentioned it or not, but theres a good chance the main nut securing the lower burr-carrier assembly, will have a thread that is "in opposition" to the direction of rotation of the Rotor, i.e. if the Rotor turns Clockwise then the nut will turn Anti-Clockwise to tighten and visa-versa.
If Im trying to teach you how to suck eggs, please tell me to get lost ;)....
Get lost, Mal.... *;D ;D ;D
yep, i got the brass nut off, but the bottom carrier is *wedged on the tapered shaft and shes wedged tight and fast!!
there is nothing holding her but the taper, as far as i can see in the exploded diagrams i found online.
it didnt matter how i levered it (and yes, *:o i will admit i was geting frustrated and on occasion have been known to give it a good heave-ho... sorry, Mal... :-[...) but it was just too tight.
i have been thinking that, eventually, i might get a service centre to do a "big overhaul" on it, new burrs and all... and then sneakily ask them to make sure they remove the bottom burr carrier to clean underneath too.. ;)
i have in the meantime secured some very nice hand grinders, so i am considering to put Mr Rocky up for sale as he only gets used for the decaf now... and i can do that with one of *the hand grinder.
and, it would save some space on my sidebrd, not to mention some kilograms in the bus.... we were about 600 kg heavier than when we left Melbourne in 2005... :o :-[ :-X
Lucky the guys at the Ceduna Traffic Check Point let us through ... veeery lucky... ;)