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Thread: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" beans

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    Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" beans

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I am using a Mazzer Super Jolly but I presume the correct procedure would be the same/similar for all machines. I am not exactly sure of how Im supposed to properly use the machine (with doser) so could someone correct the following steps if they are incorrect?

    1. Ensure that there are no foreign objects in the grinding well (I presume this should be free of grinds/beans from the last use).

    2. Turn on the grinder

    3. Put in desired quantity of beans (if I want 14g or so for a double basket approx. how many grams of beans should I be putting in bearing in mind I have a doser?)

    4. Wait until the grinding well has been swept as clean as it will sweep

    5. Turn off machine and cover grinding well (hopperless)

    6. Dose


    I guess my main questions are whether the steps are correctly ordered (eg. turn on grinder before putting in beans or vice versa), and what quantity of beans results in what quantity of grinds).

    Yes I will "trial and error" but beans are expensive and secondly Im bored at work waiting for home time so I can buy some fresh beans and play :D

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    For the double basket ijn my VBM about 18g is what I have been using but it looks as though 19 or 20g is better. I used to use a scale but now I find a level 1/4 cup measuring cup provides exactly the right dose.

    I dont fuss that much about step 1 as there will be no foreign objects in there. Does your hopper have a gate? I find this almost essential for per-dose use.

    1. Hit the dosing lever a few times to sweep any old grounds out of the doser into the doser lid

    2. Add required dose of beans to the hopper with gate closed

    3. Turn on the grinder

    4. Open gate and ensure all bean to fall into the grinding chamber

    5. Start dosing straight into the portafilter after a couple of seconds.

    6. When grinding stops, I turn off the grinder and *sweep grounds out of the grinding chamber chute (that feeds into the doser chamber) using a brush. Then I turn the grinder back on so any grinds left in teh throat are ejected into the dosing chamber and then dose into the pf
    Step 6 may not be necessary for the SJ but the Mini always clumps here.

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Quote Originally Posted by flynn_aus link=1226880013/0#1 date=1226884104
    For the double basket ijn my VBM about 18g is what I have been using but it looks as though 19 or 20g is better. I used to use a scale but now I find a level 1/4 cup measuring cup provides exactly the right dose.

    I dont fuss that much about step 1 as there will be no foreign objects in there. Does your hopper have a gate? I find this almost essential for per-dose use.
    Im going to be going "topless" for a while so no, no gate.

    So when you did use a scale, did 18g of beans equate to 18g of grinds? Or do I need to put in significantly more than 18g to get 18g out?

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Ive got to know how much volume of bean in a measuring spoon I normally need to use, and this goes straight into the throat which is then covered with the doser lid and then the grinding starts. Its only an approximation, but my dosing / settling technique is always the same so if I end up with not quite enough I just add another half a dozen beans or whatever and carry on. If you get some spillage therell be variation too but providing your technique is the same youll be able to get consistency.

    Once youve used it a few times to build up the wearable gasket around the burrs, 18g in = 18g out, apart from whats left behind in the grinder. The exit chute looks to hold a lot of coffee but its only about 2g, so you can almost ignore the few dozen particles that may be left behind in the grinder. If you sweep the chute out after dosing you should get for all intents and purposes 100% return.

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadnz link=1226880013/0#2 date=1226885383
    Im going to be going "topless" for a while so no, no gate.

    So when you did use a scale, did 18g of beans equate to 18g of grinds? Or do I need to put in significantly more than 18g to get 18g out?
    Id put something over the top of the grinder chamber when not in use to stop stuff from going in there e.g. a drink coaster.

    No, youll get close to 18g back but there will be a small amount of loss due to grinds sticking to various parts of the grinder path.
    You grind enough to dose the portafilter properly - thats why I stopped weighing. Its the dose, not the weight, that matters. The scales helped to give me an initial idea of the qty of beans required.

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Ok thanks everyone. Is there a right/wrong over turning the grinder on before/after putting beans into the grinding well?

    I know that you shouldnt tighten the grinding adjustment without the machine running/being empty in case you clamp a bean between the burrs and then fry the motor, but my grinder will be "empty" so does it matter how it is turned on?

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Nope. Thered be marginally more load being started full of beans, but theyre designed to be used with a hopper full of coffee pushing 1/2kg of beans into the burrs so without a hopper youll be being comparatively nice to it either way.

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    My method for ensuring fresh grind and no stale dregs (on my Maz Mini, but it should be similar):

    First, unscrew and throw away the shield inside the doser. *Clean out the throat of the grinder back to the sweeper blades with a small brush - I use the little pokey brush that came with my machine, I think it was for cleaning the group head area.

    1) pour a level 1/3rd measuring cup of beans into the empty hopper (1/3 cup is just about right for a double)

    2) grind until beans run out.

    3) clear the throat with said small brush

    4) run the grinder momentarily to clear out any remaining ground coffee from the sweeper.

    5) clear throat with the brush again.

    6) dose the whole amount into your PF until the doser is empty.

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    ahmadnz,

    I run topless too.
    I use rubber plunger as a lid [yes It was a new one!]
    My Compak retains quite a lot of grinds in the chute [~2g] so on completion of grinding, I give the plunger a whack with my fist and air blast all the excess grind from the chamber and chute.
    [The grind + the airblast = a double dose]
    Luckilly with the K8, in the throat there is a point where brass meets plastic and this pretty much my fill point for a double shot, other wise you could fill via a smallish measuring/medicine cup.



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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Quote Originally Posted by reubster link=1226880013/0#8 date=1227220536
    you could fill via *a smallish measuring/medicine cup.
    Just measure using the filter basket.

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b



    Or one of these....they hold exactly 18g,
    apart from measuring your dose they are just perfect for those occasions when you need to carry a double shots worth of beans around.



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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    *edit* Greg touched on this with the weight

    just been reading a little and came across someone mentioning inconsistent grind due to "bean hop" .

    Ive been using the level 1/4 cup deal but have noticed the beans start jumping around, so should we be grinding with more beans in the hopper to add weight and give a more consistent grind ?

    Darren

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Quote Originally Posted by Banjo link=1226880013/0#11 date=1227306819
    *edit* Greg touched on this with the weight

    just been reading a little and came across someone mentioning inconsistent grind due to "bean hop" .

    Ive been using the level 1/4 cup deal but have noticed the beans start jumping around, so should we be grinding with more beans in the hopper to add weight and give a more consistent grind ?

    Darren
    Thats the way the doser models are menat to work - hopper full, continuously supplying beans. This would probably provide best grinding performance

    For my low volume use, having more than a measure of beans at a time isnt feasible. But I wonder how long beans will keep in the hopper. Some have suggested 3 hours which is an extension of the rule of 3s for coffee storage.

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    I know this is probably dumb, but doesnt the Mazzer Mini dispense to order. Can you not dial in the required dose and hit "start"?
    I ask because Im contamplating upgrading to a Mazzer from the old Sunbeam, which, of course, grinds, straight into the basket.

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    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    No the Mazzer Mini does not dispense to order - you grind into the doser and using the thwacker (forgot the proper name) you dispense what you need. I only grind enough for what I am going to use into the doser than when I am finished if I ground a bit to much I dump it. ;)

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Sorry I could have misled a little you can adjust the doser to give you a measured amount. I find that this only works when you are grinding enough for several cups. I dont use this as I only grind for 2 doubles and I would have to grind a lot more beans to use this facility. :)

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Slightly off topic, but in my preparations for owning one of these - and my doubts about the doser, I cam across a most ingenious mod which consists of attaching a two-litre bottle instead of the doser. See here:http://www.home-barista.com/forums/mazzer-super-jolly-2-liter-bottle-doserless-modification-t3545.html
    Looks really simple and effective and, from the feedback, no downsides.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    The thought jumps to mind - why buy a doser model if you are going to modify it so it feeds straight into the PF- buy a doserless model

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Quote Originally Posted by flatwhite link=1226880013/0#16 date=1227320704
    Slightly off topic, but in my preparations for owning one of these - and my doubts about the doser, I cam across a most ingenious mod which consists of attaching a two-litre bottle instead of the doser. See here:http://www.home-barista.com/forums/mazzer-super-jolly-2-liter-bottle-doserless-modification-t3545.html
    Looks really simple and effective and, from the feedback, no downsides.
    I had a laugh - thats a stroke of genius! Great idea. ;D

  20. #20
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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    I dont see the point.

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    FWIW, you dont see this happen in competition, or in cafes either for that matter...

    My suggestion is that its best to learn how to dose correctly and accurately...

    Chris

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    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Its just practice. I usually have some residual beans in the hopper and frankly for a one day turnaround (actually less because its late afternoon to morning next day) for beans in the hopper does not see them degrade noticeably (not to my palate at least). I ground for a split second and then hit the doser handle to get rid of what I have just pushed out of the shoot with that split second grind. You get to the point where you know from the time elapsed (by sound/feel) how much is ground and you usually get it right, so that you might have the smallest amount of waste or at worst have to grind a teaspoons worth more. I dont bother to clean the shoot after I use the grinder unless I am going away for a few days...i just do the split second grind each time to discharge from the shoot about half a tablespoons worth say.

    Everyone is different I guess, but I like the fact that I could walk into a cafe use what they have - ie a full hopper...and do it properly - funny I know but I like that idea.

    Cheers

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Quote Originally Posted by reubster link=1226880013/0#10 date=1227303625

    Or one of these....they hold exactly 18g, *
    apart from measuring your dose they are just perfect for those occasions when you need to carry a double shots worth of beans around.
    Great idea with the tin Reubster! *8-) *They look so useful but, apart from one I that I keep small blades in, I havent found a way of recycling them until now. *I hate throwing them out...
    -Carrie

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Im with Ozscott here - I throw some beans in the hopper in the morning, and use them throughout the day. *If there are a few beans left the next morning, I just close the gate before I put the next lot of beans in. *I dont find a noticable difference in taste, and to my mind opening and closing the bag of beans every time I*want a coffee would cause far greater degradation of the remaining beans.

    Stan, the Mazzer Mini only comes with a doser - the doserless is a different model again, has a timer and costs a few hundred dollars more.

    As far as using the grinder is concerned, I turn it on, hold the PF in place and thwack the dosing lever at high speed until I have enough grounds. *I do sweep out the shute with a small brush, and at the end of the day sweep out the dosing chamber. *Ive never bothered to set the measured dosing mechanism. *

    The doserless mod looks great, but it means getting back into clumped coffee and distribution techniques again, and I suspect youd be making a new one every few months as the old one gets clagged up with coffee oils and grounds.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    When I said buy a doserless model. I did not specify what brand :P

    I recommend that anyone try before they buy - if they have the chance. I didnt due to lack of reputable traders in my area. However I an very happy with the Mazzer.

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan link=1226880013/0#17 date=1227322820
    The thought jumps to mind - why buy a doser model if you are going to modify it so it feeds straight into the PF- buy a doserless model
    In my case buying a decent grinder at a price point I could afford made it impossible to get a doserless model (except the Sunbeam 0480).

    All used Mazzers (and most decent used grinders I could find were Mazzers) were doser models. So to buy doserless would be to buy brand new (well above what I could spend).

  27. #27
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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Weve had this discussion many times before.
    Im quite happy with my dosered grinder even though I usually only make one cup at a time for me.

    I dont leave beans in the hopper.

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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    IMHO, dosered is just fine. Like TG, I dose as I go (1/4 cup=double), and thwack it out. Frees up the grinds beautifully for the PF.

    I ordered a doserless, then got upgraded to a dosered due to an importing hitch and its been great - I can take it to events and turn into a barista-wannabe in motion without thinking twice about the dose. Works both ways.

    I dose beans into hopper, switch on, open hopper gate, make sure all beans make it in, close hopper to avoid popcorning, finish grinding, switch off, thwack. If I need the extra few grinds, sweep the throat, switch on to eject last few grinds, switch off, sweep the throat, and thwack.

  29. #29
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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Exactly how I do it.

  30. #30
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    Re: Correct procedure for grinding "just enough" b

    Absolutely....

    No hardship involved and lots of benefits 8-)

    Mal.



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