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Thread: Tapping the portafilter on the front end of the dosing chamber.

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    Tapping the portafilter on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    So today my boss brought to my attention that he didnt like the tapping of the portafilter on the front of the edge of the dosing chamber, because well, grinders are expensive and it might damage them.

    I being the know-it-all I am, spun a yarn of how dosing chambers are reinforced for these very things, they were made to be like that. Which was absolute rubbish, I didnt know if that was a fact or not, but has made me curious.

    Are the chambers strong enough to tolerate a few taps every few moments, 2000 times a day? Can we damage them with such a method eventually? or did the grinder industry know this was common and factor it into their designs?

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A676A7B7C697A080 link=1263033263/0#0 date=1263033263
    Can we damage them with such a method eventually?
    Id say so.
    I dont do it to mine.
    Find something else to tap on.

    Rule Number 1: The boss is always right.
    Rule Number 2: When the boss is wrong refer to Rule Number 1.

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    point him to one of the site sponsors and ask for tamping matts ;)

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Or you could have one of these made up http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1259976500/10#10
    still reckon its the best thing since sliced bread, but then Im a little biased. ;)

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Depending on the type of grinder you are using you could try collapsing on the group handle fork. I use the Robur and have not seen any visable damage after a few years. If there was damage the forks would be less costly to replace than the dosing chamber. The only damage that can visably be seen on grinders where people tap on the rim of the chamber, is a valley on the rim where the constant tapping wears away the metal. You can be certain that tapping on the rim of the chamber would be frowned upon in barista comps.

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    @ pearcey and Jon W

    Quote Originally Posted by 615C5140475241330 link=1263033263/0#0 date=1263033263
    tapping
    He said "tapping" not "tamping".

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D514C575D5C4B5E565D390 link=1263033263/5#5 date=1263085564
    @ pearcey and Jon W

    Quote Originally Posted by 615C5140475241330 link=1263033263/0#0 date=1263033263
    tapping
    He said "tapping" not "tamping".
    If your referring to my post TG (yes of course you were, had a very late night still half asleep) I also use the block for tapping, just neglected to say so in the original thread and its now too late to alter it. :-[

    Cheers,

    Jon. :)

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 08343D2530510 link=1263033263/6#6 date=1263086057
    I also use the block for tapping, just neglected to say so in the original thread
    Fairy muff.

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    I think TG makes a point, although one I already knew, just instigating the thought of the bad habit. One I am guilty of when I get on a doser.

    Time to shake that habit out of my muscle memory.

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    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Since getting my Mazzer Mini I tap on the group handle fork for collapsing.

    Shake that bad habit Robstar ;) ;)

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Indeed, a friend of mine actually questioned the settling of the grounds on the forks instead of on the chamber lip in question, and proposed a theory that it leads to unsettling of the grinds in the basket due to the vibration.

    I argued that unless you were hitting the forks with enough unreasonable force to unsettle the grinds completely to one side, the difference would be almost minimal once youve applied a tamp to even things out a little.

    Bad habit indeed, but what is a good place to settle? The forks? The bench? a seperate tool such as the Bumper? Maybe not even settle at all! Although if you arent using a doserless, you dont have that luxury most of the time. Perhaps the answer to all these factors would be a small mod on the forks to reinforce their vibration tensity, perhaps a small amount of electrical tape layered 5 or 6 times over the front lip of the dosing chamber to take the stress of the soft metal over time or ultimately a Bumper.

    Perhaps there is no wrong, only room for improvement. But with such a widespread habit, I wonder if the manufacturers of grinders add an extra bolt or two to the chambers so we peeps dont completely break it off from the grinder base?

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Im a bench person when it comes to settling grounds, first thing that rocky lost was the PF stand, couple of taps and smooth over with the fingers and a light tap with the tamper (wood part as the metal messes up the finish on the PF), seems to work well for me

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    hey robstar,
    i hear your point about collapsing on the grinder forks can unsettle the grinds a little, sometimes when you collapse you can kinda bounce the handle a little and can see the grinds shift about. edge of counter works just fine too. you could put some thick tape over the top front edge of the doser if you wanted. youll also notice that youll get etch mark on the bottom of the handle too from collapsing on the doser...


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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Has everyone forgotten the opening line?

    Quote Originally Posted by 330E0312150013610 link=1263033263/0#0 date=1263033263
    So today my boss brought to my attention that he didnt like the tapping of the group handle on the front of the edge of the dosing chamber, because well, grinders are expensive and it might damage them.

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Could always just lay a small square of whatever soft-rubbery material as a tapping point. To completely negate the tapping of any part of the grinder.

    Tapping the edge of a bench is too flimsy for myself when its full on and tapping a portafilter directly on the bench indents marks into the finish.

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    Senior Member Luke_G's Avatar
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    I sometimes do as you said you were doing on the grinder at a friends place but thats because its rim is part of the grinding unit(1 piece).

    At work with the Mahlkonig i only pull double shots but in two dosings. Between doses into the basket i usually give it a light tap on the edge of the bench(not the spouts). But in the past i have had a folded cloth to knock down on in front of the grinder.

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    i dont know about you guys but i find two taps on the bench seems to do the trick. Settles the grinds. Then you can level it off with your index finger. Talking about the machine at work not my sunbeam though 8-)

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Just watched an instructional video on the ECA website and noticed World Barista Champion Scott Callaghan doing exactly this

    http://www.espressocompany.com.au/grinding-dosing-video.htm

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D6C66756B6E74070 link=1263033263/17#17 date=1263477987
    Just watched an instructional video on the ECA website and noticed World Barista Champion Scott Callaghan doing exactly this

    http://www.espressocompany.com.au/grinding-dosing-video.htm
    Ya... But what ya do at home; on ya own equipment and at home throughput...

    Is different to what might be OK in a work place... Or with the through put, what the equipment can stand..


    AND

    Quote Originally Posted by 536F7269636275606863070 link=1263033263/1#1 date=1263038231
    Quote Originally Posted by 5A676A7B7C697A080 link=1263033263/0#0 date=1263033263
    Can we damage them with such a method eventually?
    Id say so.
    I dont do it to mine.
    Find something else to tap on.

    Rule Number 1: The boss is always right.
    Rule Number 2: When the boss is wrong refer to Rule Number 1.

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D5C56455B5E44370 link=1263033263/17#17 date=1263477987
    Just watched an instructional video on the ECA website and noticed World Barista Champion Scott Callaghan doing exactly this

    http://www.espressocompany.com.au/grinding-dosing-video.htm

    NO...he doesnt.

    He taps the group handle on the built in tamper mount of the grinder, NOT the edge of the dosing chamber.

    Completely different kettle of fish; not that Id recommend this either as I doubt the mounting point was designed for the punishment hes giving it.

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1E223F242E2F382D252E4A0 link=1263033263/1#1 date=1263038231
    Quote Originally Posted by 5A676A7B7C697A080 link=1263033263/0#0 date=1263033263
    Can we damage them with such a method eventually?
    Id say so.
    I dont do it to mine.
    Find something else to tap on.

    Rule Number 1: The boss is always right.
    Rule Number 2: When the boss is wrong refer to Rule Number 1.
    As much as I understand the sentiment, its hard to follow this when the boss wont let you adjust the grind.

  22. #22
    A_M
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D444C4C574A4B405F50484C250 link=1263033263/20#20 date=1263505996
    Quote Originally Posted by 1E223F242E2F382D252E4A0 link=1263033263/1#1 date=1263038231
    Quote Originally Posted by 5A676A7B7C697A080 link=1263033263/0#0 date=1263033263
    Can we damage them with such a method eventually?
    Id say so.
    I dont do it to mine.
    Find something else to tap on.

    Rule Number 1: The boss is always right.
    Rule Number 2: When the boss is wrong refer to Rule Number 1.
    As much as I understand the sentiment, its hard to follow this when the boss wont let you adjust the grind.

    Ya, know a few like that.... Their contract and or service agreements may imply that other than teh service people... No touch :-?

    Then the are the others that think they know better... And besides if teh customers dont complain... The it must be OK ::)

    Ya need to come up with a method, where they make the decision that it needs to be adjusted...

    Ie. Every one starts complaining after xxx and it gets worse as the day get on... Must be temp and the beans sweating... Toss out and replace beans or change teh grind setting... What do ya recon ?


    But by the same token... Has a barista in a top hotel complaining that he was not allowed to make changes etc... Then when I asked for a long black... Just hit the button twice/three times...

    So...

    Rule Number 1: The boss is always right.
    Rule Number 2: When the boss is wrong refer to Rule Number 1.
    Rule Number 3: When the boss is wrong get him to think differently and then refer to Rule Number 1.

  23. #23
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 222B23233825242F303F27234A0 link=1263033263/20#20 date=1263505996
    Quote Originally Posted by 1E223F242E2F382D252E4A0 link=1263033263/1#1 date=1263038231
    Quote Originally Posted by 5A676A7B7C697A080 link=1263033263/0#0 date=1263033263
    Can we damage them with such a method eventually?
    Id say so.
    I dont do it to mine.
    Find something else to tap on.

    Rule Number 1: The boss is always right.
    Rule Number 2: When the boss is wrong refer to Rule Number 1.
    As much as I understand the sentiment, its hard to follow this when the boss wont let you adjust the grind.
    So let me understand.
    a) The boss wont let you adjust the grind - check
    b) The boss says dont tap on the dosing chamber edge - check

    a) is easy - do nothing
    b) Do it - get caught - get another kick up the @r$e because youve been told before

    See Rule Number 1: The boss is always right.

    I was told by a very well known, highly credentialed, award winning barista that even they had to compromise on their standards when working for someone.

    You might know better and I might agree with you but in the end you either do what youre told by the person that pays you or else go find another job.

  24. #24
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6B574A515B5A4D58505B3F0 link=1263033263/19#19 date=1263505336
    Quote Originally Posted by 5D5C56455B5E44370 link=1263033263/17#17 date=1263477987
    Just watched an instructional video on the ECA website and noticed World Barista Champion Scott Callaghan doing exactly this

    http://www.espressocompany.com.au/grinding-dosing-video.htm

    NO...he doesnt.

    He taps the group handle on the built in tamper mount of the grinder, NOT the edge of the dosing chamber.

    Completely different kettle of fish; not that Id recommend this either as I doubt the mounting point was designed for the punishment hes giving it. *
    Not really a different kettle of fish - the built in tamper mount connects to the dosing chamber. So by tamping on the tamper mount, you increase the moment arm and thus the force exerted on any bolts that hold the dosing chamber on. So technically, thats even worse than tapping on the dosing chamber

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 774B564D474651444C47230 link=1263033263/22#22 date=1263508047
    Quote Originally Posted by 222B23233825242F303F27234A0 link=1263033263/20#20 date=1263505996

    As much as I understand the sentiment, its hard to follow this when the boss wont let you adjust the grind.
    So let me understand.
    a) The boss wont let you adjust the grind - check
    b) The boss says dont tap on the dosing chamber edge - check

    a) is easy - do nothing
    b) Do it - get caught - get another kick up the @r$e because youve been told before

    See Rule Number 1: The boss is always right.

    I was told by a very well known, highly credentialed, award winning barista that even they had to compromise on their standards when working for someone.

    You might know better and I might agree with you but in the end you either do what youre told by the person that pays you or else go find another job.
    Just that one for me mate, the tapping on the grinder isnt my issue.

    As it stands, I want to serve the best coffee possible for my customers. If that means that I butt heads with the boss, then so be it.

    In the above instance I did leave because a comprimise couldnt be reached. When I arrived the coffee was flowing out in about 12 seconds, including pre-infusion.

    I adjusted it to a nice 25-28 second flow, and got lots of compliments from customers. The boss was a franchisee for a small Melbourne based cafe chain, so he didnt really know coffee.

    He insisted there was a problem with the coffee, had the roasters tech come out, check the grinder, said I made the best espresso using their beans that he had tasted, boss still not accepting it.

    Had the head of the cafe chain come out, said the same thing. In the end a compromise could not be reached so I left rather than have the stress.

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 68606F69613B3E0A0 link=1263033263/23#23 date=1263508862
    So technically, thats even worse than tapping on the dosing chamber

    i agree the lever force would higher and *more damaging IMO.

    i sometimes put mine there to sweep (on doser) if making multiple shots but why not just tap on your mat or bench?


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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    why not just change the grind when he is not watching and put it back when you get off the machine?

    but yeah sometimes your just better off leaving...... it can be hard working for idiots and just not worth it whatever they are paying

  28. #28
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D444C4C574A4B405F50484C250 link=1263033263/24#24 date=1263509090
    the roasters tech come out, check the grinder, said I made the best espresso using their beans that he had tasted, boss still not accepting it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4D444C4C574A4B405F50484C250 link=1263033263/24#24 date=1263509090
    Had the head of the cafe chain come out, said the same thing. *
    Quote Originally Posted by 4D444C4C574A4B405F50484C250 link=1263033263/24#24 date=1263509090
    In the end a compromise could not be reached *
    There must be more to it as I dont see that there needed to be a compromise from what Ive read.

    The boss agrees the coffee had a problem.
    The tech says you make the best coffee.
    The franchise head said the same.

    Theres no compromise needed. *The franchise head should have told your boss that you were right and that hed go tell all the other franchises to do the same.

    Id have left to.
    Sorry you had to.

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A465B404A4B5C49414A2E0 link=1263033263/27#27 date=1263509615
    Quote Originally Posted by 4D444C4C574A4B405F50484C250 link=1263033263/24#24 date=1263509090
    the roasters tech come out, check the grinder, said I made the best espresso using their beans that he had tasted, boss still not accepting it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4D444C4C574A4B405F50484C250 link=1263033263/24#24 date=1263509090
    Had the head of the cafe chain come out, said the same thing. *
    Quote Originally Posted by 4D444C4C574A4B405F50484C250 link=1263033263/24#24 date=1263509090
    In the end a compromise could not be reached *
    There must be more to it as I dont see that there needed to be a compromise from waht Ive read.

    The boss agrees the coffee had a problem.
    The tech says you make the best coffee.
    The franchise head said the same.

    Theres no compromise needed. *The franchise head should have told your boss that you were right and that hed go tell all the other franchises to do the same.

    Id have left to.
    Sorry you had to.
    The compromise was that the boss wanted the coffee gushing out in 12 seconds again. :P

  30. #30
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Oh I see.
    It was all about serving as many customers as quickly as possible. ::)

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Strictly with regard to the title of this topic.

    Do not do this. *It damages the equipment...the equipment earns income. The grinder usually doesnt even belong to the cafe it belongs to the coffee supplier. Why damage equipment that earns income and doesnt belong to the cafe?

    In mild case scenario, it chips out the rim of the perspex and eventually, or in the worst case scenario, cracks up or breaks the perspex.

    According to Murphys Law, this always happens at the worst possible time.

    Someone with a proper command of technique and with a healthy respect for the equipment and their business wouldnt damage it.

    Regardz,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor.

  32. #32
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    I dont think its a very good idea to rap the pf on the dosing chamber. It damages the portafilter and adds really ugly lines on the bottom of it.

    If you want to collapse, do it on the pf forks!

  33. #33
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    We just use a tamping mat. You can actually tap pretty hard as you have the firm rubber mat and there is no damage to anything!

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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.


    I agree with Wushoes, use the group handle forks if you have to tap. :P

  35. #35
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Im not a professional barista but Id tend to agree with Cremachine - why not use a tamping mat? Even tapping on the forks is still metal banging against metal. Id never do that with my own equipment nor anyone elses.


  36. #36
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    Re: Tapping the group handle on the front end of the dosing chamber.

    Hi all,

    if you do it anywhere on the grinder it will eventually get damaged or break...somewhere.

    The best place to tap is on the edge of the bench. That way you tap the bottom of the group handle, NOT the spouts which also eventually break off when you use them as "tappers".

    You can now buy tamping mats that have a right angled bend in them so they fit on the edge of the bench and go down the edge. That way you wont damage your granite benches.

    Do not tap the spouts on the tamping mat. The tamping mat always has spilled grinds on it, the spouts are wet when in continuous cafe use, so they pick up grinds and then drop them into the cup during brewing.

    For final tamping after you have settled the grinds by "tapping", you can now buy a raised tamping jigger that the group handle slots into. It keeps the spouts OFF the grinds which live on the tamping mat.

    These barista aids are not expensive and help to better your system of operation and technique.
    Hope that helps.

    Regardz,
    Attilio
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