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Thread: Manual V Electronic dosing.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    This is a somewhat pointless question as far as Im concerned as Ive made my choice and paid my cash, however (rightly or wrongly) during the decision making process my preference was heavily weighted toward a machine with a manual doser.
    Im a strong believer in the KISS principle and as far as Im concerned the manual doser is simplicity its self, about the only thing with the potential to fail is the actuator spring, easily repairable by the user.
    Whereas the electronic is substantially more expensive and has the extra layer of electronic complexity, like everything electronic/computerised it has the potential to and probably will eventually fail, when it does I suspect the result will be a reasonably hefty parts and labour bill, not to mention down time waiting for the repairer to source parts and get around to doing the job, imagine, caffeine withdrawal, the horror :o
    Im sure others will disagree however rightly or wrongly these are my thoughts on the subject.
    Its all a little like cars, most of us could work on an HQ Holden or XM Falcon, the modern versions? forget about it, having said that modern cars are infinitely more reliable than the 60s and 70s models.
    Thoughts. *::)

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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    The only thing i dont understand is why you started a topic on a so called "pointless question" :-?

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 72765049494C53444B250 link=1274057884/1#1 date=1274059971
    The only thing i dont understand is why you started a topic on a so called "pointless question" *:-?
    As I said in the opening sentence Warren pointless as far as Im concerned, but thought my reasoning may be of interest to others contemplating an upgrade, but then perhaps not. :-/

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    Coffee+carbon=heaven Mono's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    I have the Macap M4D. At no time did I consider a dosered grinder, just dont like them for domestic use......mainly because of perceived stale coffee retaining. I like the Mazzer Mini-e but the timer is not very easy to calibrate and Ive been told grind time is about twice that of the Macap. Of course the big electronic conicals are exciting ;) but I would be out in the garage with the grinder............they are just too Huge :o

    Steve

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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Getting a reliable and consistant dose is the problem with the electronic grinders by all accounts. Even the Robur E is not perfect in that regard.

    The answer to this may also be different commercially to home use as well. A lot of us here will only be putting beans in the hopper for 1 or 2 shots at a time so due to popcorning a timed dose is not going to be any good to control dose level. Commercially with a hopper partially full and under the pump there is some merit in an E type but at 4 seconds/double for a Robur compared to 2 whacks of the lever the Doser wins for speed.

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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0E2C2D2C430 link=1274057884/3#3 date=1274062827
    Of course the big electronic conicals are exciting
    Quote Originally Posted by 0E2C2D2C430 link=1274057884/3#3 date=1274062827
    but I would be out in the garage with the grinder............they are just too Huge
    Mine would be in a glass display cabinet, with downlights shining down upon it 8-)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    What I was trying to convey was not the consistency and accuracy of the two types, but my perception of the simplicity/reliability of a manual doser mechanism V electronic.
    Of course doser V doserless is a whole new kettle of fish and obviously my preference is for a doser. :)

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 43476178787D62757A140 link=1274057884/5#5 date=1274064472
    Mine would be in a glass display cabinet, with downlights shining down upon it
    My Bezzera has pride of place on the bench with a light strategically placed above it.
    When my daughter first saw it her remark was geez its shiny.

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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C587E6767627D6A650B0 link=1274057884/5#5 date=1274064472
    Quote Originally Posted by 0E2C2D2C430 link=1274057884/3#3 date=1274062827
    Of course the big electronic conicals are exciting
    Quote Originally Posted by 0E2C2D2C430 link=1274057884/3#3 date=1274062827
    but I would be out in the garage with the grinder............they are just too Huge
    Mine would be in a glass display cabinet, with downlights shining down upon it 8-)
    If have heard how quiet a Robur is compared to a flat burr grinder or should I said if your wife......
    Not just noise, taste as well I dont think it would stay in a display cabinet.

    I dont really see the point with waste if you home roast. Even if the doser contains 20grams of old grinds that would equate to about 20-30 cents. It would take a long time to pay for that E doser, about 2500 20g "wastes".

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    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 787B69696D7B631A0 link=1274057884/8#8 date=1274066959
    Even if the doser contains 20grams of old grinds that would equate to about 20-30 cents. It would take a long time to pay for that E doser, about 2500 20g "wastes". *
    When I first got my mazzer mini doser I kind of regretted it, because it was leaving so many grinds behind and throwing to the left, so per 15g double I was getting about 5g of waste.

    Now with the really simple tape mod and spout, you can literally COUNT the leftover grinds in the doser, almost zilch.


  11. #11
    Coffee+carbon=heaven Mono's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D597F6666637C6B640A0 link=1274057884/5#5 date=1274064472
    Mine would be in a glass display cabinet, with downlights shining down upon it Cool
    Yeah..............right 8-) Hope you wife-2-be is as greater coffee lover as you are otherwise it may be another Mr & Mrs Smith scenario ;D

    Steve

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    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    I have had the privilege to use both doser and doser-less *styles of grinders

    I enjoyed using them both
    The doser-less grinder is easier to use & in the case of my M4D it was the cleanest machine I have owned

    I now favour the doser models as I like the clikity clakity routine

    This routine also sifts & makes the ground coffee more powdery & fluffy as its dispensed into the basket

    It all boils down to personal preference & I would happily use both * *:P

    KK


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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 79454C5441200 link=1274057884/0#0 date=1274057884
    Whereas the electronic is substantially more expensive and has the extra layer of electronic complexity, like everything electronic/computerised it has the potential to and probably will eventually fail
    Gday Jon...

    Youre not really comparing apples with apples mate.... Yes, improperly designed and specified electronic systems can be prone to early failure, say the electronic systems found on domestic appliances for example (complexity is a relative point of view, usually from a laymans perspective). However, properly designed and specified electronic systems are often more reliable than their mechanical counterparts. As with good mechanical design, the same holds true for electronics.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4245414E464C59494E47200 link=1274057884/4#4 date=1274063720
    Getting a reliable and consistant dose is the problem with the electronic grinders by all accounts. Even the Robur E is not perfect in that regard.
    This has not been my experience with the Kony-E "bf"; the exact opposite in fact. Consecutive doses have been measured using a jewellers scale and found to remain within a +/- 0.3g envelope

    Quote Originally Posted by 42415353574159200 link=1274057884/8#8 date=1274066959
    Even if the doser contains 20grams of old grinds that would equate to about 20-30 cents. It would take a long time to pay for that E doser, about 2500 20g "wastes".
    Never observed this with the Kony-E at all.... After a coffee making session, and a very simple and quick clean out via a couple of pulses and judicious use of a brush, only about a gram of coffee is left behind in the grinding chamber. Next to nothing really and certainly not a concern....

    Mal.

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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 012C282429450 link=1274057884/12#12 date=1274070089
    This has not been my experience with the Kony-E "bf"; the exact opposite in fact. Consecutive doses have been measured using a jewellers scale and found to remain within a +/- 0.3g envelope

    Hi Mal,

    how much in the hopper to get those results? Interesting to know how a "good doser" compares. Some of the comments here indicate that they are not consistant http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1268192465

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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 664B4F434E220 link=1274057884/12#12 date=1274070089
    Quote Originally Posted by 42415353574159200 link=1274057884/8#8 date=1274066959
    Even if the doser contains 20grams of old grinds that would equate to about 20-30 cents. It would take a long time to pay for that E doser, about 2500 20g "wastes".
    Never observed this with the Kony-E at all.... After a coffee making session, and a very simple and quick clean out via a couple of pulses and judicious use of a brush, only about a gram of coffee is left behind in the grinding chamber. Next to nothing really and certainly not a concern....

    Mal.
    Sorry but I meant a "normal" doser not a E-doser. So the reference was to the wastage in a standard doser to an E-doser (Mazzer mini vs Mazzer mini - E).

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B66626E630F0 link=1274057884/12#12 date=1274070089
    Yes, improperly designed and specified electronic systems can be prone to early failure
    Was not suggesting early failure Mal simply that eventually failure is on the cards, I cant think of a single piece of electronic gear I have bought within the past 10 years including TV, computer, kitchen appliances, phones, fish finders hi fi gear, cameras, washing machines etc that is still in service, the one possible exception being an old calculator that like the Duracell bunny just keeps going.
    Whereas my old Nikon cameras are over 30 years old taken 10s of thousands of shots and still going strong, not that I use them, like most Ive gone digital (Nikon D200) fantastic camera but I wonder if it will still be going in thirty years? I know I wont. :)

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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F636A7267060 link=1274057884/15#15 date=1274071651
    I cant think of a single piece of electronic gear I have bought within the past 10 years including TV, computer, kitchen appliances, phones, fish finders hi fi gear, cameras, washing machines etc that is still in service
    well you must have some shocking luck with electronics......ive never experienced such failures from electronic items, sure the occasional one, but ALL!!!!

    PS, im not any of my electronic gear anywhere near your house! *;D

    PSS i definately agree that they dont make em like they used to, but, they didnt do what they do today either, with electronics, ya buy cheap, ya get cheap, when the good components are used, they are nearly unbreakable....

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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    And to continue off topic,
    Only the well made products from yesteryear is still around. So when someone says "See, this was built in 1957 and it still is working" is only showing a product that has survived and forgetting to show all the products that have failed.

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    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A495B5B5F4951280 link=1274057884/17#17 date=1274072479
    And to continue off topic,
    Only the well made products from yesteryear is still around. So when someone says "See, this was built in 1957 and it still is working" is only showing a product that has survived and forgetting to show all the products that have failed.
    I still use a Tube amp for my Hi Fi

    Quote Originally Posted by 714D445C49280 link=1274057884/15#15 date=1274071651
    I have bought within the past 10 years including TV, computer, kitchen appliances, phones, fish finders hi fi gear
    When I first read this I thought you said fish fingers ;D ;D

    KK

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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 72565F5F5C5C6672564A5456390 link=1274057884/18#18 date=1274072642
    Quote Originally Posted by 4A495B5B5F4951280 link=1274057884/17#17 date=1274072479
    And to continue off topic,
    Only the well made products from yesteryear is still around. So when someone says "See, this was built in 1957 and it still is working" is only showing a product that has survived and forgetting to show all the products that have failed.
    I still use a Tube amp for my Hi Fi
    And how many tubes have you gone through? Enough to buy a SS amp that would last longer, sound better, more fidelity, more efficient, weigh less...etc.
    If you still are listening to a Valve amp then you must have gone through a set of ears ;D

  21. #21
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 52767F7F7C7C4652766A7476190 link=1274057884/18#18 date=1274072642
    I still use a Tube amp for my Hi Fi
    I had an American made Marantz 1120 SS amp made around 1973 until a couple of years ago when one of the channels failed, after 3 visits to the doctor they declared life extinct :( its still in a box down in the shed.
    Btw the tube amp has made quite a come back over recent years, serious audiophiles pay an arm and leg for em, and dont try to tell any of these guys SS is better. :)

  22. #22
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 280C050506063C280C100E0C630 link=1274057884/18#18 date=1274072642
    When I first read this I thought you said fish fingers
    Electronic fish fingers at that ;D

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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 080C2A333336293E315F0 link=1274057884/16#16 date=1274072091
    PSS i definately agree that they dont make em like they used to, but, they didnt do what they do today either, with electronics, ya buy cheap, ya get cheap, when the good components are used, they are nearly unbreakable....
    Have to admit the exception is cars, much more reliable than they ever were, oh and good power tools seem to be pretty reliable. :)

  24. #24
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Hi again Jon....

    If you read my original response post to your question(s), I did make mention of the fact that you cant really compare the quality of domestic appliance electronics with that of full-on commercial or industrial - totally different genre of design and component quality....

    Mal.

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    Re: Manual V Electronic dosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 686F6B646C667363646D0A0 link=1274057884/13#13 date=1274071554
    Hi Mal,

    how much in the hopper to get those results? Interesting to know how a "good doser" compares. Some of the comments here indicate that they are not consistant http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1268192465
    Gday "bf"....

    I just emptied a 250g of beans into the hopper to setup the Single/Double Dose Times (used about 100g of beans). Once set, I added another 250g of beans then ran off a series of single and double doses and achieved the results posted above.

    The only criticism Ive read about the irregularity of dosing with this system seems to be related to the Robur-E and I think that is more to do with the design of the discharge chute into the funnel - Apparently a load of ground coffee can build up on the chute threshold and then avalanche into the funnel. I havent observed this phenomenon with the Kony-E (yet )....

    Mal.



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