a gino rossi quiet....wow, maybe its just mine that sounds like a chaff cutter .... :o
Im a very happy chappy, pity I have no time to clean it and so on... Man its huge - the WAF is low, but then who cares right? Im already thinking about a special shelf just to house it... Im not fussed about the height but its much deeper than I thought.
It sure is quiet too - apart from the tamper being a bit loose, when I hold it all tightly with my hands its MUCH quieter than my Breville BCG450 :)
Im hoping to use this thread to help with taking it apart, cleaning it, and putting it back together.
Thanks you lot for getting me on this path ::)
a gino rossi quiet....wow, maybe its just mine that sounds like a chaff cutter .... :o
well, that was with no beans... maybe its noisier doing the business! *Or maybe the Breville sounds like a sick jet engine!Originally Posted by 2D252C223535322E400 link=1282653884/1#1 date=1282659177
Here are some obligatory photos:
the girl! loose tamper (it rattles) the throat (clean!) the doser looks fine only 6357 clicks! whats this bit for?
what is that white pad for in the doser lid? *Looks like a switch - but its over the exit hole where the grinds come out from being ground?
Now, is there a pull-apart guide for these things?
thanks :) :)
If its standard ?Originally Posted by 2F272F282224460 link=1282653884/2#2 date=1282698023
I think its a counterweight
If its not standard then the spring is broken on the flap
The flap is the overfill stop feature (but you probably knew that)
Thats not a flap.
It doesnt move, it just holds the overfill switch, which the white thing is.
Well really its the cover for the switch.
Ive never tried filling the doser on my Rossi to see how it works but I know if I press the switch it does cut the motor.
I assume that when the doser get full enough the grinds have nowhere left to fall and that then puts pressure on the switch, which is, obviously, fairly sensitive.
So its only 3 weeks old? *;DOriginally Posted by 3931393E3432500 link=1282653884/2#2 date=1282698023
(My Macaps up to 2500 since it "clocked" again last week.)
Id read it was something to do with the overfill switch but I cant figure it out.
The orientation is as in the photo - the white pad is perpendicular to the lid top, or "vertical". To press it, you push in the horizontal direction from the grind chute to the front of the machine. Im guessing that as the grinds are thrown out of the chute, they will push against this switch, if the doser is full enough. Still dont understand how they will push hard enough, but Im sure GR have tested it ;)
I just had a thought - this is essentially a motor cut-out microswitch... - on contact it cuts the motor (ie. N/O) I could replace it with an N/C switch and mount it against the edge of the motor base and use it as a OD portafilter switch ;D ideas ideas :) Then I need to make a grind chute & funnel to point the grinds into my pf as per http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1251536813
baby steps - I gots ta clean it first!
The white flap is the auto stop feature, attached the lid which means you cant sweep the basket after tamping, really annoying actually.
Good luck getting the retaining screws out of the doser, they rust in
i removed the auto fill thing. but to do it i took it out from the base wiring
if you remove the base it is wired into the switch with those little metal spade slidy things on the end of wires (what are they called.. spade crimps?)
anyway you can remove the wires to the the ,micro switch and jump the motor wire onto the switch. it was then just an on / off switch on the side that i preferred without that ugly doser lid. i had a very nice metal dome from a plunger on the doser :)
get some advice if your not a sparky etc.... 240V....
why not? you mean sweep / clean with a brush?Originally Posted by 5A525B5542424559370 link=1282653884/6#6 date=1282711593
I was reading your thread - any pics of your final version?Originally Posted by 5A565F52525B370 link=1282653884/7#7 date=1282713685
sparky, no. tinkerer, yes ;) I work with low voltage (ie up to 1000V) electronics, so I know what not to touch :)get some advice if your not a sparky etc.... 240V....
found one, i remember using a rubber band as a oring to stop the plunger lid rattling a bit, but i liked it better then the auto fill lid as you could quickly take it off and clean the doser etc.
i found the little metal chute i made really helped with the static in the grinds so if you get static yo might want to consider doing one. i just used a bit of a tomato tin can
sink plug works as a bean keeper in-er :)
man i am dodgy with mods *:D
i dont have the RR45 any more.
Hi Iann,Originally Posted by 464E46414B4D2F0 link=1282653884/8#8 date=1282715043
What I meant was when you level the basket before tamping
still dont get it :( how does the full switch affect anything to do with whats in the pf?
OK, I started taking it apart already (Im under strict instruction that if it sits around dead for too long it goes!), and so far the damage isnt too bad:
- catch tray broke in the post
- burrs are blunt as blunt, even a rust spot!
- bottom burr screws are fairly ... screwed! looks like they were inexpertly replaced. One is stuck in.
- bottom burr doesnt seem to sit exactly on centre, but it still turns sweetly
- top burr adjustment collar seems to have some hairline cracks - I cant remove it from the top burr.
- masses of thick hard compacted grinds EVERYWHERE, even where they cant get to while observing the laws of physics. I guess caffeto is the stuff to use here?
- tamper stem is bent, only a bit
- doser lid is missing some pins to hold it on tightly, but it still sits on
- doser lever was not operating smoothly, but it looks like the washer that compresses the spring was on the wrong side of the track, so it wasnt springing back into place. Seems to be fixed now.
- counter doesnt count because the spring pulling it over is broken.
- doser chamber gears have tracks worn in them, but I think I can swap them around, since they rub on different places.
That must be about it for the doser. Can I get burr screws from somewhere?
Also can I soak everything in caffeto - from plastic to chrome? I think I need some! I dont know how coffee grinds get so gluey... it smells worse than pre-ground too!
I am very impressed with the quality - there is some seriously thick steel in there, and the burrs turn sooo smoothly. You get what you pay for!
sounds like it was fairly neglected, dont you love the smell of rancid coffee beans / oil :P
i chucked the inbuilt tamper, and i dont think my counter worked either
a really good clean should sort most of those issues
hope you can sort it out ;)
Im trying, but dishwashing detergent seems a bit weak. Are there any tricks? Im looking for some cafetto since I heard that works wonders, but Im having trouble finding it.Originally Posted by 5F535A57575E320 link=1282653884/13#13 date=1282774096
Cafetto are a site sponsor. Most good coffee suppliers will have it, but in Darwin....I dont know.
Maybe rock up to your local *good* coffee shop and ask if you can buy some, its not overly expensive and goes a long way. i.e 50g would clean the average home machine perhaps half a dozen times
YEP... See many places selling little tubes of 100g - A silent and hidden surge ;)Originally Posted by 3038313F28282F335D0 link=1282653884/15#15 date=1282827604
yeah well, I only have the yellow pages to go by, and the first place I rang quoted $50 for 1kg :o
Now I KNOW theyre not getting ripped off, or they wouldnt be in business, but the bulk discount price comes to about $17 per kg, so with a bit of postage ($3 per kg?) theyre charging 250% of their buy-price... Things still work differently up here...
And I dont visit many cafes here cause I dont like their coffee :(
I heard ya pay ya bills in GJ vouchers :D ;D ;)Originally Posted by 676F67606A6C0E0 link=1282653884/17#17 date=1282829179
Well after lots of elbow grease to deal with bits like this:
Ive finally removed the oil and gunk from just about everything. Its nice and shiny now :) Ive labelled all the screws cause I usually have some left over when I put things back together ::)
Im stuck with one problem still - one lower burr screw wont budge:
Ive removed it from the body and cleaned it up as best I can without getting the motor wet, but still no luck. Either I soak it in WD40 overnight (the burrs are being replaced anyway and Id only need a tiny bit to sit in the recess) or I use one of the screw remover tools. Need to visit the local hardware...
It is looking nice and shiny though, I cant wait to put it all together :) :)
Yes WD40 would be the first optionOriginally Posted by 707870777D7B190 link=1282653884/19#19 date=1282829481
Use a ratchet fitted with a screw driver tip to remove for more leverage
Take it slow and remember L/H or R/H thread...Originally Posted by 11353C3C3F3F0511352937355A0 link=1282653884/20#20 date=1282829771
Seen many a person totaly screw them selves and or the item; by forgetting which way something goes ON or OFF ;D
Do you own a Power/Cordless Drill with a Hammer Function Iain (the setting used when using Masonry Drill Bits)?Originally Posted by 505850575D5B390 link=1282653884/19#19 date=1282829481
If you do, a very safe and reliable method is to use a new Philips bit of the correct size, set the drill on Hammer and Reverse, a low to mid torque setting, then go for it. You need to make sure you apply enough force to avoid allowing the bit to climb out of the screw youre trying to undo but this method works with screws of just 3mm right up to the largest bolts/nuts, without causing damage.
The largest Ive personally used this method on was a 6.0"(150mm) UNF Nut securing a coupling to a very large industrial motor - piece of cake.... ;) 8-)
DO NOT use impact that applies vertical force on the lower burr carrier screws.. EVER! hammer function impact drills designed to drill masonry have that function. The impact can easily throw the carrier out of alignment or damage the bearings or their races. remember that a grinder adjusts in increments of less than .001" so it doesnt take much to screw things up (pun intended).
You would be much better off completely disassembling the thing to get the motor out and taking it to a machine shop to have the screws drilled out. If you want to do it, drill through the center of he screws head to get the head to fall off then you can deal with the remaining shaft of the screw. There are penetrating oils that are superior to WD40 for releasing stuck hardware.
Thanks for all the advice :)
After soaking overnight I still couldnt budge the screw. Then I thought about removing the whole burr holder. According to coffeeparts the top nut should come away.
I didnt know if it was a LH or RH thread since it was on a spinning shaft. I tried both ways, and wedged a bit of paper towel between the burr holder "sweeper" arms and the grind chute to stop it turning. It came of fairly easily - its a normal thread (righty-tighty lefty-loosey!).
The burr holder wouldnt come off though, till I found a washer under the nut covered in muck. I had to apply reasonable force under the burr holder through the chute, then keep turning it and trying to lift. Eventually it "cracked" and I could take the burr holder off.
Have a look underneath, Im surprised this cafe sold any coffee, it must have tasted disgusting!
At least now I can apply a bit more force on the stuck screw :)
Ill keep you posted!
RE: photo of under the carrier :P yuck
Now you can use an impact type of toolOriginally Posted by 7971797E7472100 link=1282653884/24#24 date=1282884189
Ya think many others out there are any different... Wait till ya get a few commercial machines to look at..Originally Posted by 737B73747E781A0 link=1282653884/24#24 date=1282884189
They would make ya sick - once ya take teh covers off or look at shower screens..
As for grinders... If any staff even look like touching to adjust teh grind... Let alone clean teh owner usually goes troppo and yells about some Service tec who sets it up and to NOT touch.
Thus the sheep get to have crap - while you and me have real coffee. Opps thats right - Your paying me in GJ vouchers ;D
That has NEVER been my experience Randy and that is going back over several decades of doing this very thing. Much worse for newbies to use high impact devices such as Impact Drivers, etc.Originally Posted by 0D3E313B260018715F0 link=1282653884/23#23 date=1282836194
Never had a single bearing fail early or cause other issues as a result of doing things this way as the action is usually so brief and of such short throw, subsequent inspections of bearing races have never revealed any sign of impact cratering or brinelling of the case hardened surface.
Im not in the habit of making recommendations to fellow CSers about which I have no personal knowledge and experience.... After all, the intent here is to remove all components so that New Bearings can be fitted.
buy some waterbased screw grab from the boltmasters , or whoever is close to you .it is made from left over diamond cuttings ex jewellers etc place an amount on the screw and on new condition screwdriver bit pref new one and see some magic happen . do not use impact equipment, hot water poured first to introduce some heat then dry off , then use product may help kev.
There was about 1mm of play in the burr before it hit the burr holder arms, so I hammered it back and forth a few times, pivoting on the stuck screw. That was enough to loosen it and I finally got it off. More gunk underneath.
Now Im down to the shaft and theres STILL crud stuck on it but I dont know if I can go any further. These are the parts that cant be replaced according to the coffeeparts schematic! Do you think I should take out the circlip and keep cleaning? It seems as though some coffee is still getting under there somehow...
Also, what do you think that discolouration is on the inside, top left of the pic above?
There are two types of impact drivers. One works like an impact air wrench used in automotive repair shops. This tool applies the impact force in a rotary (circular) motion. The force is applied in a plane parallel to the fastener being removed. I would agree that when used correctly this would be an appropriate tool when used correctly. for a number of reasons I would recommend it as a last resort to someone not familiar nor experienced with such a tool, particularly on a precision device such as an espresso grinder. At least to say, I would recommend having replacement hardware on hand for the parts being removed.Originally Posted by 173A3E323F530 link=1282653884/27#27 date=1282895265
The other style of impact wrench, the one you mentioned, with "Hammer Function" applies the force in a vertical place, perpendicular to the part being removed. It was that style tool to which I referred. We might be dealing with a nomenclature difference. It could be that where you are, "Hammer Function" means something different, but here I have always heard that function used to designate a tool designed to drive special, carbide-tipped drilling bits into concrete and masonry. I would never recommend such a tool on precision parts that were not going to be replaced. Since the burr-retaining screws are located away from the axis of the lower burr carrier, the pounding can bend the carrier itself, bend the motors shaft, mis-align the motors mount, or damage the bearings.
It has been shown that orienting a burr on its carrier by rotating it one screw-hole one direction or the other can change the precision of a grinders performance (either to the good or to the bad). I do not know this grinder, but if I remember correctly, one click on the Rancilio Rocky is 0.001" of adjustment (.03mm) change in distance between the burrs. It is not difficult to see that using a hammering impact on the lower burr carrier while it is still mounted to the motor could be detrimental to the future precision of the grinder.
Now.. if the lower carrier was pulled off the motor and on a bench or other supporting surface then using a hammer drill would be a different matter. But while mounted on a motors shat, and unsupported? I do not agree that hammering impact is a good idea.
So what do you guys think? Should I keep taking apart and cleaning or should I stop there?
Vacuum after using a stiff brush is all you needOriginally Posted by 7C747C7B7177150 link=1282653884/31#31 date=1282970738
It will get dirty again on first use
Also have a look at the motor compartment for ground coffee that has migrated down
I would check the motor by turning the lower carrier by hand- We called it the safecracker method when checking bicycle bearings. Turn the carrier but do not "roll" it between your fingers. Hold it firmly and rotate your entire hand at the wrist without changing the way your fingers grasp the carrier. This should reveal any bearing problems. if that seems OK, use compressed air to clean the rest out as much as possible and then deal with it as you see fit. I would say that once the grinding chambers clean and the burrs are out and ready to be replaced, do as little as necessary. make sure that the motor retaining hardware if properly torqued at least.Originally Posted by 404840474D4B290 link=1282653884/31#31 date=1282970738
Some [(many?) most??] motors of this sort often have bearings that should be removed with the proper tools and/or equipment. I do not know this grinder, so this is something you will need to look into. Doing that job incorrectly will render the thing useless for anything other than working at Starbluks.
BUT... be SURE that when replacing the burrs that the mounting surfaces are 100% clean, free of coffee particles, and flat. Hone all surface deformations or burrs.
I was more worried about the stain and smell of the old oils that I cant get to unless I take the cover off the shaft... Im not at the bearings yet - it appears the cover is just held on by a circular nut with two holes that you somehow have to twist.Originally Posted by 40646D6D6E6E5440647866640B0 link=1282653884/32#32 date=1282971903
yup, bearings seem fine :) Its very quiet and smooth.Originally Posted by 596A656F72544C250B0 link=1282653884/33#33 date=1282974107
Ah, compressed air sounds good for the motor. For the bottom of the grinding chamber (top of the shaft) that I am trying to get to - I cant scrub it with detergent if its fixed to the shaft cause I dont want to get water down the shaft and on the motor...if that seems OK, use compressed air to clean the rest out as much as possible and then deal with it as you see fit. I would say that once the grinding chambers clean and the burrs are out and ready to be replaced, do as little as necessary. make sure that the motor retaining hardware if properly torqued at least.
Maybe i could just sit it upside down in detergent and give it a scrub upside down so any water falls away from the motor?
How would I hone the mounting surfaces? It looks like the upper and lower burr carriers are made slightly rough, out of some sort of brass or copper (quite heavy, but soft). I dont have a sander or anything.Some [(many?) most??] motors of this sort often have bearings that should be removed with the proper tools and/or equipment. I do not know this grinder, so this is something you will need to look into. Doing that job incorrectly will render the thing useless for anything other than working at Starbluks.
BUT... be SURE that when replacing the burrs that the mounting surfaces are 100% clean, free of coffee particles, and flat. Hone all surface deformations or burrs.
thanks guys :) Im not doing much more till I get over thsi wretched cold :( Hopefully I can finish it next week!
It looks like you have done a pretty good job at getting it cleaned up. If all the surfaces that contact the coffee are clean, then just blow the thing out as best you can and leave it at that.
For the burr-mounting surfaces, just check the interface areas and be sure there are no burrs or distorted areas (such as around screw holes) where the burrs have to sit.
It is hard to say just how far to go without being there to examine it, but again, the areas that the coffee touches are the most important, and if the ventilation paths for the motor are clear, that should be sufficient. If you dont have a compressor, just take it to an auto shop or similar repair center and ask to use and air gun to blow it out.
Randy...Originally Posted by 4C7F707A674159301E0 link=1282653884/30#30 date=1282929286
My background is an engineer of several decades experience and I dont need advice on how to suck eggs...
What size hammer would you recommend using to adjust the Webers on a 68 Porsche Carrera?Originally Posted by 54797D717C100 link=1282653884/36#36 date=1283069919
If you are recommending using a HAMMER drill on a coffee grinder there were some classes you missed in engineering school.
My Alfa Sud Ti had twin Webber carburettors and I never used a hammer on them ::)Originally Posted by 0B38373D20061E77590 link=1282653884/37#37 date=1283131386
Just a dustpan and brush to sweep up the rust? :-? ;DOriginally Posted by 76525B5B58586276524E50523D0 link=1282653884/38#38 date=1283143298
Yes unfortunately mine went that way with rustOriginally Posted by 1A2F2225110D2128282B2B4E0 link=1282653884/39#39 date=1283143709
But it was a fun car to drive and out of all my cars the Alfa Sud had the most precise steering
To continue in off-topic mode just a little longer, I agree with the Sud being *fun to drive ... around the city. Quick off the mark and great handling but I remember a big difference between 2nd and 3rd gear (4th was pretty much an overdrive) and gutless uphill. I can clearly remember swearing as I crawled uphill, constantly changing up and down between 2nd and 3rd.Originally Posted by 62464F4F4C4C7662465A4446290 link=1282653884/40#40 date=1283144293
I didnt own it long enough for rust to be a problem but I had lots of other problems. One of my happiest moments was receiving the insurance check after I wrote it off.
It was a 1200 CC engineOriginally Posted by 69637661616E7A7C0F0 link=1282653884/41#41 date=1283146910
That did not stop me clocking over 200 km in it
OK back on topic you lot ::)
I think Ill just order the burrs, screws, and catch tray. I rang CoffeeParts today - very knowledgeable. He didnt have to look up anything, and quoted item numbers off his head :)
Only question is about the top burr adjustment collar. Theres hairline cracks around the edge where you push it on the top burr. Do you think I should get a new one? I guess I can stick it on and decide later. (It also smells a bit of RP7!)
So my parts list is:
sheesh thats about $80 :-?
- Set of burrs
- 6x burr screws
- Counter spring
- Catch tray
This is going to taste good whether it tastes good or not :P
I bought a 2nd hand one a few days ago myself, and went over there today, and picked up a catch tray, a new spring and some bits for the Pavoni. I also got a second clip that holds the top burr carrier in place, as I want to attempt to create a stepless mod, and plan to make irreversible changes to the existing stopper :) I also grabbed a new spring for the stopper, as the one that was in there feels a bit worn, and I need some more spring pressure for the mod.
I was going to pick up a new set of burrs too, but upon close inspection the new burrs do not look or feel any different to the current ones, so I will run with them for a little while before I make a call on whether I need new burrs.
Gday Nico....Originally Posted by 22252F234C0 link=1282653884/44#44 date=1283489506
Really, the best way Ive found to work out if the burr-plates are worn out (or not) is to just grind some coffee. See if you can locate a very fine sieve and then do a rough calculation of fines to larger particles. For my experiment, I just used a Tea Diffuser. My old burr-plates produce a ratio of fines to large particles of close to 40%. The new burr-plates reduced this ratio to just a fraction over 10% and the difference in the cup was like chalk and cheese....
This is a very rough way to conduct this type of experiment of course but it works well enough and is quite repeatable, and very interesting into the bargain ;)
good idea - I just assumed the burrs were flat because they felt so .. flat. Should they have that "knife edge" feel to them? Mine dont.
I have some beans so Ill test it out before I buy... although I need the screws anyway, hm.
I like it. Of course the only way to really know the difference is after you replaced the burrs :)Originally Posted by 0825212D204C0 link=1282653884/45#45 date=1283490518
Mind you, I still have my Cunill around to use as a reference, as well as an unopened bag of preground someone gave me as a gift a while back.
I am thinking of just grinding for espresso with both, spreading the grinds on a white surface, and using the macro shooting mode on my camera, and examining the result on a big screen or starting a "Rate my Grind" thread here for the old hands to comment on.
Generic screws from bunnings should be fine for testing. Some may say even permanently.... Nobody here probably ;)Originally Posted by 7F777F787274160 link=1282653884/46#46 date=1283491487
The new burrs also did not have a knife edge feel to them, which is why I did not bother with them for now.
I like the idea of a rate my grind thread, as I was also considering changing the burrs on the Cunill before I sell it, but if the grind looks consistent enough, then I will just sell it as is.
+1Originally Posted by 76717B77180 link=1282653884/48#48 date=1283492410
In fact, there should be a "rate my ..." section, under which are various pages: grind, crema, art, etc. (ok some of this may overlap with whats here already).
Rules for rate my grind: 1. must post picture (duh), 2. must have obvious item of scale (ruler, 5c piece, etc).