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Thread: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

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    How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I took apart my Rocky tonight for the first time since I bought it (2006?). What I found was horrible, the built up rancid coffee stank. I got rid of 99% of it with cocktail sticks, my grouphead brush (actually pretty useless here) and a vacuum cleaner. However, while the gunk is gone, the rancid oil coating and smell remains. Can I use hot water and cafetto to clean the brass? If so should I take the burrs off? Can I clean the bottom burrs well (the "agitator" vanes are pretty grimy). Would "Grindz" get rid of the oils? I just want to get back to "square one" and then of course now Ive seen the horror I will be cleaning every month :)

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Take the top and bottom burrs off and wash them with detergent & hot water then dry them well

    A moist microfibre cloth should be used on the inside throat to remove oils

    Replace when satisfied with your cleaning

    KK


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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Thanks - the burrs themselves were actually the cleanest parts. After reading your post, I took it apart again, this time actually removing the burrs. I washed the top brass burr holder in cafetto, but as the burrs themselves werent actually too bad I just cleaned them with toothpicks. With the burrs removed I got rid of a lot more gunk with careful use of a screwdriver, toothpicks and a vacuum cleaner.

    Getting the bottom burr off, I actually managed to damage a screw slightly but luckily with a bit of cleaning and getting a bit of help in holding the holder steady with a 12mm socket, I managed to remove it in a still usable state. I havent got any spares but I havent overtightened it and think it wont be an issue to remove next time. I think I will need to do a coffeeparts/espressoparts order soon anyway so will get some more then. Another thing I almost did was cross thread the top burr set when putting it back in - I was being hurried along and forgot to turn anticlockwise until it drops into place, then screw in. Luckily after a turn or two I realised that it wasnt going in smoothly, and putting it in the correct way again it went in fine.

    The grind setting seems to be the same, but I notice that the "dynamic" zero point seems to be around 5, and the static zero point around 0. I cant remember what the dynamic point was before, and am a bit worried (but not too worried as I took it apart again to check that everything is screwed in right) that the burrs arent parallel. Im relaxed enough about it though as the same grind setting as I was using before just gave me 60ml in 30 seconds.

    We had a coffee from the machine, and my girlfriend reckons it was the best one I had made for a while. I thought though that I could taste something like hash in the coffee. Im not sure whether this is from some coffee oil residue or whether Im actually getting a flavour in the coffee (ethiopian harrar) which wasnt coming through before.

    And a thing I didnt figure out was whether it is possible to take out the bottom brass bit that the bottom burr sits in. I would have been able to do an even better job of cleaning if I could get that out - is it possible? Also by detergent, did you mean something like cafetto or did you mean washing up liquid (e.g. morning fresh). Is it possible for cafetto to damage either the burrs or the brass (assuming I dont soak for more than 10 mins)?

    Thanks in advance :)

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Use any detergent that does the job effectively

    This is a full schematic drawing of your grinder (manual doser model) and will help you to see what parts come apart

    KK



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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    I heard you can also clean well by running some dry rice through it.

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C2y4XHF6Tg[/media]

    and cleaning with GRINDZ

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFDkj7kmedQ[/media]

    anyone know what model grinder hes using?


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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D62796E7B647C6E790B0 link=1292672723/4#4 date=1292722743
    running some dry rice through it
    Not a good idea. Grindz is designed for the job and not that expensive. Quote from Sweet Marias "In the past, many people have cleaned grinders with rice. However, rice carries the risk of locking up the motor of a grinder as it passes through and is turned into a fine powder. The hardness and shape of Grindz Grinder Cleaner prevents this from happening. Using rice to clean your grinder also leaves a starchy residue on the inner mechanics of a grinder that is difficult to remove."

    Personally I like to strip and clean manually as it doesnt take to long and does a much more thorough job. A litle Cafetto in solution on an old tooth brush followed by a couple of rinses in fresh hot water and then dry all parts.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Quote Originally Posted by 436C7760756A726077050 link=1292672723/4#4 date=1292722743
    I heard you can also clean well by running some dry rice through it.
    Some investigation may lead you to believe like I do that this is one of those "pearls of wisdom" spread via the internet by people that havent tried it themselves.

    First thing you should notice in the first video is he said he got the idea via email from a friend.
    It also sounded like he was going to test it for the first time while making the video (risky).

    Secondly, he said it was "Minute Rice".
    Thats a brand name and specific product.
    http://www.minuterice.com/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minute_Rice
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_rice

    Its pre-cooked rice thats been dehydrated.

    As far I know that means its not as hard as raw rice.
    Raw rice might be hard enough to damage a grinder.

    Such potential damage is why I dont like people passing on unsubstantiated "help".
    Its like scams on Facebook and in emails that have some kind of "sob story" base that turns out to not be true.
    The scammers know most people wont investigate.

    I do my best to stop the spreading of the "misinformation" every time I come across it.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    I read a thread (maybe here on coffeesnobs) where someone read that "2 minute rice" was good, and he thought that meant that the rice should be cooked for 2 minutes. So he put cooked rice through his grinder. :o

    I might try getting some grindz but looking at that schematic it looks as if I could have undone the bolt from to get the bottom burr carrier off, which should mean I could give the whole thing a full clean.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    I owned a Rocky for a few years and never found the need to put anything through it other than fresh coffee beans.

    Cleaning was a simple activity that only required the removal of the top burr carrier, the use of a cheap stiff bristle-brush and the vacuum cleaner. Doing this every couple of weeks or so prevented any nasty build-up of coffee oils and dust. I reckon that once youve got your Rocky cleaned up, this is all youll ever need to do as well.

    The same routine can be used for most grinders of similar construction too of course. This is all I did with my La San Marco SM-90A, my Macap M4 and now my Mazzer Kony-E. Easy as..... 8-)

    Mal.

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    Senior Member bennett's Avatar
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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Quote Originally Posted by 132F3229232235202823470 link=1292672723/6#6 date=1292733141
    Some investigation may lead you to believe like I do that this is one of those "pearls of wisdom" spread via the internet by people that havent tried it themselves.
    I once heard via the internet you could put the old white apple imac keyboards in the DISHWASHER for a clean!!!!!!!

    I never tried it - but I was tempted.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Ive used rice. Stuff that Id put in a container after using it for blind baking - and hence it was very dry and I was not going to use it for anything else. Never had any problems. Only used it when I couldnt be bothered pulling the grinder apart, and I just vaccumed it up as it came out in a powder. As far as I could tell, the dry rice powder picked up some of the oils but it mostly just pushed stale grinds out of the chute that had got stuck on the sides.

    Often people on forums get caught up in talking about stuff theyve never done. I didnt see how rice was any different to the grindz stuff.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Quote Originally Posted by 526B61616D6E6D4E63767667020 link=1292672723/10#10 date=1293072796
    Often people on forums get caught up in talking about stuff theyve never done. I didnt see how rice was any different to the grindz stuff.
    And so have you used Grindz or not or are you talking about stuff you have never done?

    This is one of those urban coffee myths using Rice to clean grinders, like storing beans in a fridge continuing to perpetuate the myth doesnt make it right. Rice creates some problems as well as fixing some so dont do it.

  13. #13
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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    I did use rice for this purpose... Once. :P

    Many years ago (before broadband ::)), when I owned a small conical grinder. It made such a hell of a racket that I thought the burrs were being chewed to bits and in the end, it didnt do all that good of a job cleaning the grinding chamber down.

    Have never used Grindz but from what Ive read from people who have credibility in the industry, it seems to be a quick and dirty ;) (bad pun) way to clean things up if you havent got the time to strip the top of the grinder down.

    Even with the Kony, its a very quick and easy thing to pull down then clean up spic and span, using a stiff long bristle brush, toothbrush and the vacuum cleaner. Probably takes me all of five minutes every couple of weeks. Not something one could call arduous.... ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Quote Originally Posted by 6265616E666C79696E67000 link=1292672723/11#11 date=1293074286
    And so have you used Grindz or not or are you talking about stuff you have never done?
    I compared the look of grindz in di bartoli to the rice. Didnt see any difference. Not like I was quoting a website or anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6265616E666C79696E67000 link=1292672723/11#11 date=1293074286
    This is one of those urban coffee myths using Rice to clean grinders, like storing beans in a fridge continuing to perpetuate the myth doesnt make it right. Rice creates some problems as well as fixing some so dont do it.
    Yes Mum. ::)

    Quote Originally Posted by 4245414E464C59494E47200 link=1292672723/5#5 date=1292724131
    Quote from Sweet Marias "In the past, many people have cleaned grinders with rice. *However, rice carries the risk of locking up the motor of a grinder as it passes through and is turned into a fine powder. *The hardness and shape of Grindz Grinder Cleaner prevents this from happening. *Using rice to clean your grinder also leaves a starchy residue on the inner mechanics of a grinder that is difficult to remove."
    I see you forgot to mention that quote was actually written by the manufacturer of grindz. Not like theyd have a vested interest or anything though so not to worry.

    You could also read these pages on the same site that promote the use of rice for cleaning grinders.
    http://www.sweetmarias.com/zas.instructions.html
    http://www.sweetmarias.com/espresso-grinders.php

  15. #15
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Gee piccolo, I think bf was only trying to help.

    Though then again, if youve
    Quote Originally Posted by 5E676D6D616261426F7A7A6B0E0 link=1292672723/13#13 date=1293081181
    compared the look of grindz in di bartoli to the rice. Didnt see any difference.
    Then nothing will convince you. They are absolutely nothing alike in appearance, structure, or composition.

    Youve presumably spent several hundred dollars on your grinder and have saved a few bucks by using rice.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Im having vindaloo on grindz tonight...Same same.... ;)

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    I give up too, maybe wheat might work to clean the rice out of the burrs better, like the garbage flour and wheat husks I took out of my Climax when I got it *::)

    Nothing beats a quick strip and mechanical clean.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Quote Originally Posted by 11303B3B3C26550 link=1292672723/14#14 date=1293085679
    Gee piccolo, I think bf was only trying to help.
    Perhaps. But it came across as condescending.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3730343B33392C3C3B32550 link=1292672723/16#16 date=1293092133
    Nothing beats a quick strip and mechanical clean.
    Completely agree. In fact going back to the OP, if you havent cleaned your grinder in four years nothing short of a strip and clean would help.

    Didnt mean to come across too prickly above. Ok, so maybe a little. But its Christmas, so lets fogheddaboutit

    Quote Originally Posted by 0134393E0A163A33333030550 link=1292672723/15#15 date=1293086506
    Im having vindaloo on grindz tonight...Same same....
    It didnt work so well when I threw it at my sisters wedding. Perhaps youll have better luck.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Ok, hoping now that all the BS and the jokes are over, here is my own opinion on this *;)

    I am of the opinion it is not a good idea to give members of the general public schematic diagrams that will help them to get into a piece of design engineering and either electrocute themselves or wreck the thing putting it back together, not to mention losing parts or ending up at the end with some parts left over or as has been seen in other threads, snapping things off.

    I am of the opinion that members of the general public shouldnt be encouraged to pull these pieces of design engineering apart including taking the top plate off for internal cleaning. God knows enough of them have cross threaded the thing trying to put it back on afterwards, and many thereafter never seem to be able to find the "right" grind again because they dont know enough about the black art before delving inside of the equipment.

    How many times have we heard things like....."I just bought this great (insert here machine or grinder) and want to know where / how to start stripping the thing". It is often their first machine, they dont even know how to use it yet or even understand the principles of use and set up, and already they are going to pull it down......

    In home use I do not *keep* beans in the hopper as in to empty a bag full of beans in and use it up over time. I just put enough beans in there for a couple of coffees at a time. The grinder then runs out of coffee frequently enough.

    When the grinder has spun out all remaining loose grinds, all I use is a small paint brush to brush around inside the throat, then hit it with a vacuum cleaner both from the throat, and from the bottom outlet, and again use the small paint brush or similar to brush grinds away.

    "Build up" when using a grinder in this way is minimal, and any grinds that do stick in the nooks and crannies inside the grinder in low volume home use DO NOT I think in most cases affect your cupping pleasure unless possibly you also go by the name "Len Evans". Common sense dictates if they are stuck in there, that means they are not coming out with your fresh grinds ergo are not ending up in your cuppa.

    Dont let whats going on inside your brain (fueled by a lot of stuff read in these forums) affect what your taste buds think they are tasting.

    Yes when a grinder has had little attention over a period of years or has been bought second hand and is well encrusted, more muscle is required BUT.......not much more than I have described & usually to remove caked gum from the inlet throat by careful scraping and then vacuum out, and often enough to also clean out the dosing chamber if one is fitted. I still do not recommend members of the general public with little to no expertise in the field to go pulling the top off the grinder and you will find that the greatest majority of readers in these forums, fall into that category. If you have had a win and managed to "steal" an old commercial grinder for very little money in some evil site and it looks like its been dragged out of the bottom of the harbour, then maybe you should be getting it professonally serviced. Yes it will cost you but...

    Rice....I dont think so.

    Grindz.....if you want to atleast it is a proprietary product that is marketed for the purpose and therefore is "safe" to use.

    There is enough BS on the broad topics of coffee and coffee equipment out there, to sink a battle ship *;D

    Rgeardz to all,
    Attilio
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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Common sense prevails at last! ::)
    Utilising the "KISS" principle!

    Well said Attilio.

    A Merry caffeinated Christmas to all CSs :D

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Quote Originally Posted by 0C382F39221509252C2C2F2F4A0 link=1292672723/18#18 date=1293141965
    I am of the opinion it is not a good idea to give members of the general public schematic diagrams that will help them to get into a piece of design engineering and either electrocute themselves or wreck the thing putting it back together, not to mention losing parts or ending up at the end with some parts left over or as has been seen in other threads, snapping things off.

    Ill have to respectfully disagree with you there.

    As a member of the general public (MGP) myself, I have found schematic diagrams downloaded from the web to be invaluable when working on many pieces of design engineering. Id certainly have spent much longer dismantling and possibly broken several household appliances without at least basic guidance from the web.

    Reassembly is usually far more straightforward than initial disassembly as by that time us MGPs have some previous experience with the item concerned. Many items are designed to be assembled easily, but difficult to take apart, for legitimate safety and manufacturing reasons.


    How often have we read on forums such as this, complaints from MGPs who took their (insert here machine or grinder) to an appliance repair shop only to be told it was user error or everything is now fixed, we had to clean/replace XYZ and pay large sums of money only to find it is no better than before, or in some cases worse. They then ask for help and are pleasantly surprised to find they can fix it themselves with little effort and sometimes without even opening the case

    Quote Originally Posted by 0C382F39221509252C2C2F2F4A0 link=1292672723/18#18 date=1293141965
    When the grinder has spun out all remaining loose grinds, all I use is a small paint brush to brush around inside the throat, then hit it with a vacuum cleaner both from the throat, and from the bottom outlet, and again use the small paint brush or similar to brush grinds away.
    I recently bought a used commercial grinder and the first thing I did was take it apart - it was truly disgusting inside and the grind exit path needed a good soaking in hot soapy water (all polycarbonate components), the rest needed an internal vacuum/blow clean and a scrub with a modified toothbrush (bent head).

    Interestingly, I looked at the grind chamber and decided that spinning it by hand with a vacuum running on the exit path would clean it well enough and disassembling that part before I knew the machine in detail would be too risky. So at least some MGPs have common sense and I suspect, from reading CS, that there are a significant number of us.

    Like all else - it is a matter of personal responsibility and taking reasonable safety precautions. Sure there are some that will break things - Ive done it myself on occasions, but if you break it, you fix it, or pay someone to do it and (hopefully) learn from the experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0C382F39221509252C2C2F2F4A0 link=1292672723/18#18 date=1293141965
    There is enough BS on the broad topics of coffee and coffee equipment out there, to sink a battle ship *
    Im in full agreement there. Always read advice on the net with a highly critical eye.

  22. #22
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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Quote Originally Posted by 343C323A3822223E323A510 link=1292672723/20#20 date=1293178114
    As a member of the general public (MGP) myself
    Ill have to respectfully disagree with you there.
    Youre a CS and that trumps MGP.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    A well thought out reply Who me? and there will always be repairers that occasionally get it wrong, as there will always be a small percentage of DIY home tinkerers.

    The problem in these forums in my opinion, is that a small number of home DIY tinkerers encourage thousands upon thousands of readers to get into stuff that they really shouldnt, and there is an awful lot of encouragement for people to go much much further in many instances than they really need to.....

    Its all good food for thought.

    Regardz,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    The one place I really see that behaviour on these forums is people encouraging use of coretto roasters. Messing around with heat guns is every bit as risky as opening up a grinder or espresso machine.

    Im not sure how much the diy stuff on internet forums affects behaviour though, usually it takes a certain kind of person to research in that kind of depth and then act upon it.

    There does seems to be a tendency for people to get a bit carried away and do more tweaking than is really necessary, but if they are having fun and not harming anyone else, who is to say that is wrong.

    As you say, food for thought.

  25. #25
    A_M
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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Quote Originally Posted by 49414F47455F5F434F472C0 link=1292672723/23#23 date=1293330575
    The one place I really see that behaviour on these forums is people encouraging use of coretto roasters. Messing around with heat guns is every bit as risky as opening up a grinder or espresso machine.

    Im not sure how much the diy stuff on internet forums affects behaviour though, usually it takes a certain kind of person to research in that kind of depth and then act upon it.

    There does seems to be a tendency for people to get a bit carried away and do more tweaking than is really necessary, but if they are having fun and not harming anyone else, who is to say that is wrong.

    As you say, food for thought.
    The issue is that MANY over estimate their Skills and often are not aware of many of the risks!

    Problem is that some of the risks involved, can mean death and or serious injury.

    Even something as simple as drilling a hole in a wall can kill. If you failed to check wiring locations etc. Friends put up some picture hangers with a toggle type screw system for plaster board. Their main power for their Entertainment system was then found to be not working.

    Some many $$$ later, it was found that the toggle had caught and damaged the wiring in the wall.

    OR

    Two large a charge and big nail gun and firing into light pine framing into a course type cement slab with some good size pebbles... He was lucky; the nail bounced and came back up. Ended up in his upper inner thigh and just missed a number of vital bits.

    Assumptions and a LITTLE knowledge can be very dangerous....

    Now about that grinder and that Top burr nut...

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1292415372

  26. #26
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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Quote Originally Posted by 1D323B392E113D323D3B39313932285C0 link=1292672723/24#24 date=1293336180
    Two large a charge and big nail gun and firing into light pine framing into a course type cement slab with some good size pebbles...He was lucky;the nail bounced and came back up. Ended up in his upper inner thigh and just missed a number of vital bits.
    Been there, done that.

    Well not done it myself but been in the firing line.

    One day at work with dad (a builder) we were having lunch in a garage of a block of flats under construction when a nail came through the wall and ricocheted all around.
    Luckily it missed us all, including the boss.
    A very large building company today and many iconic Sydney building may never have come into existence if that nail had hit the boss.


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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C786F79625549656C6C6F6F0A0 link=1292672723/18#18 date=1293141965
    Ok, hoping now that all the BS and the jokes are over, here is my own opinion on this *;)

    I am of the opinion it is not a good idea to give members of the general public schematic diagrams that will help them to get into a piece of design engineering and either electrocute themselves or wreck the thing putting it back together, not to mention losing parts or ending up at the end with some parts left over or as has been seen in other threads, snapping things off.

    I am of the opinion that members of the general public shouldnt be encouraged to pull these pieces of design engineering apart including taking the top plate off for internal cleaning. God knows enough of them have cross threaded the thing trying to put it back on afterwards, and many thereafter never seem to be able to find the "right" grind again because they dont know enough about the black art before delving inside of the equipment.

    How many times have we heard things like....."I just bought this great (insert here machine or grinder) and want to know where / how to start stripping the thing". It is often their first machine, they dont even know how to use it yet or even understand the principles of use and set up, and already they are going to pull it down......
    This seems very condescending. *Firstly, I dont think that the frequenters of this board count as the general public. *The general public will buy a coffee machine from the Good Guys, and when it breaks, theyll throw it away. *(More likely, theyll just stop using it and it will just use up space). *I personally consider the fact that these machines are so easy to take apart to be a feature. *Ever since I was a child, I have taken apart everything I come across. *VCRs, walkmans, CD players, radio controlled cars ... anything which had screws really. *And then Ive put them back together again, having learned something about how they work, and how to fix certain problems that occur with them. *Ive had Silvia in pieces several times, (PID, leaky pump, replacing steam wand o-rings etc) and much prefer to fix something myself (and gain an understanding of how something works) than just take it to the shop to get it fixed. *Dismantling the machine is my decision, and if I cross thread the grinder putting it back together, then its my fault. *Having schematics available though or instructions / walkthroughs can only help, else I am going at it blind.

    I am sure I am not the only person who likes to take things apart. *In doing so I acknowledge that yeah if I break it then its my own fault ... but even if I do break something, well its a learning experience.

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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    I too like to tinker (e.g. Buy 2nd hand and refurbish in my own small way) and when doing so its my own responsibility.


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    Re: How to get rid of rancid coffee oils

    Hello all.

    The post was never intended to be condescending and it and the other post *I placed a couple of replies further down are entirely self explanatory. My ideas, opinions and thoughts are tempered with actual industry experience, and usually adopt the KISS principle. I believe in KISS and it usually helps people not to get themselves into deeper trouble than they can handle. *For every person like you that may be capable of tinkering effectively, there are thousands of readers here that shouldnt do so but are egged on to do so through what they read in these open forums.

    The references to BS were directed squarely at the tangential discussions re using rice and the petty level (my opinion) they had reached in the discussion. Also, the rice thing is a great example of BS thats done the rounds of the internet (courtesy of endless regurgitation by people with keyboard experience) for so long that it somehow assumes "fact" status OR is misinterpreted in
    "the translation". I wouldnt put rice in my grinder.

    After that, these are all opinions in a public open forum*:)

    Hope that helps.

    Regardz.,
    Attilio



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