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Thread: Be warned about Sunbeam

  1. #1
    DrT
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    Be warned about Sunbeam

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi All,

    Ill cut a REAL long story short.

    My EM0480 had problems and it was sent back to Sydney for examination.

    Problem is, Sunbeam told me they LOST it. Yep, lost it. They received it at the warehouse but still they lost it.

    Funny that they did not manage to lose my EM6900 - I also sent that in using the same carrier the same day and using the same delivery address....

    Consider yourself warned about ANY of their products let alone the functionality of the company.

    (Mods please move this to the appropriate place for maximum exposure).

    DrT

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    They lost it? But if they received it at the warehouse, presumably theyre going to replace it?

    Youve had an absolutely shocking run with this grinder, along with the problems with the 6900. Hopefully the problems with the grinder will now be circumvented by the brand new, shiny replacement one that theyll have to give you. Which begs the question - wouldnt it have been easier for everybody, in the long run, if theyd just done that in the first place?

    When you call their customer service people back, maybe its worth mentioning to them (if you havent already done so) that you subscribe to forums like this, where opinions about machines and backup service are regularly aired. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and youve got plenty to squeak about. Maybe thatll motivate them to give you a 6910 as well to fix your 6900.....

  3. #3
    DrT
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Hello varanid99,

    Yep, they got it at the warehouse and yep they "lost" it while in their possession. I guess its just as well since the damn thing was a piece of junk. The good news is that I get a new piece of junk out of it.

    I wrote in about my experiences with the company (and assocated squeaking here):

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1138058473/180

    At the end of the day, I wanted a new one from where I bought it - Harvey Norman Munno Para, but the franchisee decided he was not going to replace it since Sunbeam SA examined it and said it was performing "to spec". So much so that during the course of (repeated) phone calls to the 1800 number to try and get the head Sunbeam office to over-rule the SA branch and tell Harvey Norman to give me a NEW one, one of the ladies let slip that Sunbeam SA had sent in a note to head office saying "this machine is NOT to be replaced", despite the problems I was having.

    I am due to get my EM6900 back after they fixed a dead steam pump. I think its fair to say a new one was warranted given the track record of the machine, but Sunbeam thought otherwise.

    I told the Sunbeam SA people I am a member of this forum, but you will see what sort of response I got in the above hyperlink. It aint good !

    Stay clear of Sunbeam.

    Oh, and if anyone from Sunbeam is reading this, go ahead and ask the mods for my details so you can send me an EM6910, or even better, a bloody refund so I can buy a decent bit of gear!!!!!!!

    DrT











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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Dr T
    Go ahead and contact A current affair or Today Tonight. Telling the head office that something shpuld not to be replaced after having some fool who doesnt have a clue about what he is doing play with it is incompetant.

    Aas soon as A current affair calls them they will replace the unit - especially if they lost it in the warehouse.

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Good idea Lucinda,

    Didnt Paul Bassett do an infomercial for Current Affair a couple of years ago? Surely they wouldnt want their show to be associated with a recommendation for a dodgy consumer product, would they?

  6. #6
    DrT
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Not a bad idea lucinda, but, Im sure that my problem is rather petty compared to some of the things that go on around this place like the issues people have with banks, etc. If I have another problem though, I will probably do as you say and throw in a serving of the office of consumer affairs just to be sure... Lord knows that if the new/repaired products even so much as twitch on the bench when I am using them I will be up Sunbeam like a rat up a drain pipe and I would certainly contact the appropriate Government authorities such as the standards board and discuss the issues since you cant sell a product that has such a large failure rate. At the $600 price point, it should fail years into life, not weeks or months. Something like that needs to be pulled OFF the market.

    A new grinder is headed my way - that much they told me. However, since I sent my original grinder back to Sydney on the same shipment as the espresso machine, and I labelled it to death as they told me to, methinks the "loss" is a convenient way of saving face. That is, the head office probably did not want to be embarrassed by the thoughts and actions of the local morons who, I am sure, were CLEARLY wrong. If they do not have it, they cant tell me what was wrong with it....

    DrT




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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    That sounds like the most rational explanation DrT. Occam himself would sign off on that one.

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Dont give up on the ACA idea.
    Today Tonight and ACA seem to put some pretty mundane things on when they are scratching around for content.

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    My guess is maybe that is what they are doing Dr T, I will bet the Adelaide office is going to get their knuckles rapped over that stuff up. I think you are owed an apology though. I hope this one is going to be much better.

    As for Hardly Normal, Gerry Harvey seems to be on television a lot lately. I do not know how much control he has over the franchisee at Munno Para but I bet he would not be amused by his good business name being dragged through the mud by such behaviour of his employees. My guess is that it was Hardly Normal who sent the little note to Sunbeam as they (sunbeam) are generally very good with replacing stuff without to many problems.


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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by DrT link=1170029626/0#5 date=1170044358
    Not a bad idea lucinda, but, Im sure that my problem is rather petty compared to some of the things that go on around this place

    Dr T,

    Yes, couldnt agree more. This week on Today Tonight, the diet that really works. Next week on Today Tonight, the diet that really works. The following week, Is Shane Warne a love rat? After that, the diet that really works. You wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell against that lot.....

    On a more serious note - yeah, it definitely sounds like a face-saving exercise. I hope the next grinder works better for you. All I know, after all this, is that when it comes time for me to upgrade my machine, the 6900/6910 wont even get a look in, based largely on your experiences.

    J

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    DrT
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Hmm, some of you are insisting on the ACA type option: What about a poll or something to ask what percentage of people (who take their coffee seriously) would also take the ACA option seriously given the Sunbeam troubles (mine and others) ? Dunno how to set that up and if the moderators would let it through since its not all that positive a thing to discuss. (By and large I like reporting sucesses !)

    Yes varanid99, and others, avoid ANY Sunbeam coffee product. You might as well flip a coin each morning and see what the odds are of the equipment working that day, or making it though the day without problem. Unacceptable.

    Sunbeam knows customer service alright *- they concluded, I, as a customer, do not know how to use the equipment AFTER completing the Sunbeam coffee appreciation course. And the crowd goes wild !!

    DrT

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    <soapbox>
    I never take ACA or TT seriously. I stopped watching them years ago. The incessant drivel they spew on an unsuspecting public who still associate them with journalism is despicable. They have all the integrity of Kopi Luwak!
    </soapbox> :D

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    DrT

    To avoid all of sunbeams products is a bit unfair.

    I have once owned the sunbeam grinder and found it performed perfectly. Obviously you just have a dud one (although I have not read the nature of its faliure). I have since sold it as it didnt grind good enough for my liking. (I had a La Cimbali Cadet at the time too)

    I sold my Silvia and bought an EM6910. I am more than pleased with its performance so far. It hasnt missed a beat yet. Its a quality product and Sunbeam have learnt from the EM6900 fiasco. Of course sunbeam losing your machine is not acceptable and a new machine should be sent out pronto.

    As a barista, I have had lots of opportunities on many different espresso machines and grinders. For home the EM6910 does a bang up job for a small price.

    What I am saying is that, although I understand you are annoyed and p*ssed off to say the least, be fair. If you do get the 6910 upgrade, Im sure you will be more than impressed. I am.

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Dr T,

    I personally wouldnt take anything on either of those shows seriously. But Sunbeam did use ACA basically as a marketing exercise - from memory, they compared 5 domestic espresso machines - I think 2 low-end Sunbeams, the 6900 (it was just being released), and 2 other machines which escape me at the moment, but Im sure someone here will remember. 2 or 3 judges rating the machines, one of whom was Paul Bassett (I also recall that they mentioned he was the world barista champion, but I dont seem to remember them saying he was on Sunbeams payroll. Of course, I could be wrong).

    With that in mind, how many consumers bought the 6900 on the strength of the ACA report, where of course the 6900 came out on top? So my take is that theyve basically given Sunbeam a gratuitous plug, without knowing and/or caring that a) the machine is a dud, and b) that the customer service is appalling. Id be more inclined to take that angle - this show that purports to be the champion of the little guy has fed the little guy a crock o shtimpy.

    Do some muckraking of your own. Talk to Harvey Norman/Myer/David jones/etc, and find out how often these things get returned. Ring the service guys (youve probably used the list in your box numerous times by now) and ask them about failure rates. Armed with this info, and the threat of consumer affairs/media maybe youll get some satisfaction.

    (Or, you could always borrow a machine from a site sponsor, and spend your idle hours making coffees in the Harvey Norman carpark for potential customers, just to dissuade potential 6910 buyers.......)

  15. #15
    Flo
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Hi DrT.

    I hope things turn out ok for you. If not, contact the Department of Fair Trading. If you still get no joy, maybe then consider your options...Honestly, I think its time we had some sort of "lemon" law here...maybe then manufacturers wouldnt give punters the run around.

    Having said that, I know that lots of people are happy with their Sunbeam gear; both grinders and machines. Hope yours gives you many more years of trouble free service! ;)

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1170029626/0#12 date=1170049699
    DrT

    I have once owned the sunbeam grinder and found it performed perfectly. <snip>I have since sold it as it didnt grind good enough for my liking.
    Thats an interesting interpretation of perfectly, but point taken. I havent had any problems at all with my 0480, and there are quite a few others on CS that have reported the same. But you have to admit that the failure rate is pretty high - whether and by failure I mean results that are poor when compared with the user manual. The manual says that a grind for espresso should be within a certain range (cant remember the exact numbers, but about middle of the scale) - while we know that this isnt realistic a lot of the time, there are a fair number of people here who are grinding at the absolute limit of the machine. What makes this even worse is that this is not just the case with non-Sunbeam machines, but also with the machine that the grinder is designed to be paired with. The odd problem here and there can be expected, but there seem to be more than youd expect with this gear.

    On top of that, yes, the 6910 may be a fantastic machine, and hopefully theyve ironed out the kinks from the 6900. But its still pretty early days yet, so if I were upgrading tomorrow Id steer well clear. In 12 months time, if theres very few complaints about it, maybe Id reconsider. But given that they obviously know about the faults in the 6900 (theyve supposedly fixed them, after all), and given that theyve already stuffed the guy around with his grinder, why not just suck it up and give him a new machine? Makes sense to me - maybe they could actually salvage some good PR from the exercise, instead of having someone tell everyone they know about 2 crappy machines and poor customer service...

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Well perfectly shouldnt have been the choice of word there...perhaps within specification would be more fitting...it performed what it said it would....nothing more, nothing less. Granted, it didnt grind well enough for my liking...no fault of the machine build itself. The adjustment steps were just too large.

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    When I sent my EM6900 off for its 2nd repair the other day the courier said that he takes heaps of stuff back to Sunbeam. He said that his warehouse is full of crates to go back to Sunbeams Sydney office. I dont know if they are all EM6900s or other appliances as well. But it would seem that they have a quality control problem...

    I know the courier guy isnt the most authoratative source, but it is more evidence of the extent of the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by varanid99 link=1170029626/0#4 date=1170043721
    Good idea Lucinda,

    Didnt Paul Bassett do an infomercial for Current Affair a couple of years ago? Surely they wouldnt want their show to be associated with a recommendation for a dodgy consumer product, would they?
    Has Paul Bassetts reputation been soiled by Sunbeam? What does the professional barista community think of all this?

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    I do know that I would be very sceptical about anything that has been endorsed by an "expert" in the field.

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffee Schnüffler link=1170029626/0#11 date=1170049461
    <soapbox>
    I never take ACA or TT seriously. I stopped watching them years ago. The incessant drivel they spew on an unsuspecting public who still associate them with journalism is despicable. They have all the integrity of Kopi Luwak!
    </soapbox> :D
    Perfect... 100% correct that statement.... they twist things just to make a story.... Its pathetic!

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by Viviane link=1170029626/15#18 date=1170110875
    I do know that I would be very sceptical about anything that has been endorsed by an "expert" in the field. *
    Maybe I have gotten cynical in my old age because I feel much the same way.

    All too often I have found that just because someone has a trophy or a piece of paper doesnt mean they are very good at what they do. Generally I am disappointed.

  22. #22
    Flo
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by Viviane link=1170029626/15#18 date=1170110875
    I do know that I would be very sceptical about anything that has been endorsed by an "expert" in the field. *
    Who else would you get to endorse it then?

  23. #23
    Flo
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by marcstolk link=1170029626/15#19 date=1170112107
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffee Schnüffler link=1170029626/0#11 date=1170049461
    <soapbox>
    I never take ACA or TT seriously. *I stopped watching them years ago. *The incessant drivel they spew on an unsuspecting public who still associate them with journalism is despicable. *They have all the integrity of Kopi Luwak!
    </soapbox> :D
    Perfect... 100% correct that statement.... they twist things just to make a story.... Its pathetic!
    Ohh come on Marc! The punter has a right to know! I dunno what you guys are all so worried about..

    TV Journo Rule #1: "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." *:D

    TV Journo Rule #2: "If its on TV (or the internet) it has to be true!"

    Win/win

  24. #24
    DrT
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    It seems you good people know just why I am hesitant to use TV as a medium for "twisting" arms. Most people that appear come across as shows like ACA come across as complete dingbats!! Just last night, a 19 yr old single mum that took out a car loan for more than she is paid in a year and guess what, boo hoo, she is not paying it back so of course its the lenders fault for giving her the money in the first place. (At least thats what I made of it). Oh pleeeease.

    I admit I am harsh on Sunbeam. My singular experience alone justifies that but people do write in saying they have returned the gear two or even three times - what on earth does that say about QC? If you get a good one, great. Consider yourself very lucky. And yes, what about the grinder that says use settings 12-16 (specifically with the EM6900) and people write in saying they are right down there, like me, at setting 4 or even worse, setting 1 !! Too much variation and so the products are just not up to standard.

    There should be no one person to get behind the machine to endorse it - if its so good, they need a PERMANENT test bar at various places that sell the equipment. Let taste be the authority. Then, you will have to excuse from laughing hard right now, what do they do when they are plugging the machine real hard and the steam pump fails, or the thermoblock splits, or.... right in front of the customer. After all, a demo machine would get a hiding and given the QC issues, it would become a circus.

    DrT


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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by Flo link=1170029626/15#22 date=1170116097
    Quote Originally Posted by marcstolk link=1170029626/15#19 date=1170112107
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffee Schnüffler link=1170029626/0#11 date=1170049461
    <soapbox>
    I never take ACA or TT seriously. I stopped watching them years ago. The incessant drivel they spew on an unsuspecting public who still associate them with journalism is despicable. They have all the integrity of Kopi Luwak!
    </soapbox> :D
    Perfect... 100% correct that statement.... they twist things just to make a story.... Its pathetic!
    Ohh come on Marc! The punter has a right to know! I dunno what you guys are all so worried about..

    TV Journo Rule #1: "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." :D

    TV Journo Rule #2: "If its on TV (or the internet) it has to be true!"

    Win/win
    Very good Flo ;-)

    You know, whats sad is people believe everything they read/\/watch without research.... TV/\/Internet is convenient...

    TV in my house is used for the following (in no specific order);

    Sport
    Docos
    Special Interest Progs

    Everything else - no thanks... Where is my DVD player... ahhh... insert DVD... Play.... nice... :-)

    ;D

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Paul Bassett was no doubt paid a LOT of money for his endorsement..... and advertising.

    He also no doubt had some input at the "concept" stage of these machines.....

    But just like the legal advice that has been provided here by people (who are qualified to provide such advice) on consumer rights etc.... it is as significant a quantum leap to go from that advice-- to us actually arguing a case in court (without legal representation)- as it is to go from concept stage of an item to the production of that item.

    Sure, Sunbeam have a name which they can use, sure they have a great design concept - but a lot has been lost in engineering design (about which Paul Bassett would know nought) and the actual manufacturing and quality control.......

    Too often people who are great in their field prostitute themselves - for money. And we, the gullible consumers, buy that item because of the endorsement....

    The money spent to buy the endorsement would have been far better spent on the rest of the process - but then they would have sold far less in number - and higher in quality - machines......

    Ah well, better start cooking lunch on the George Forman grill..... because it is so much better than any other cooking device ;) :o :o

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by Flo link=1170029626/15#21 date=1170115526
    Quote Originally Posted by Viviane link=1170029626/15#18 date=1170110875
    I do know that I would be very sceptical about anything that has been endorsed by an "expert" in the field. *
    Who else would you get to endorse it then?
    Doesnt matter who they get to endorse a product - Im aware that the "expert" has been paid money for his/her recommendation, and so I discount it completely. In this case its worse - Sunbeam are advertising that Paul Bassett had a hand in the design of the machine. Im guessing that they asked him what hed like to see included, he gave them something equal to the specs of a Synesso and Sunbeam then worked out what they could afford to fit to the machine and still keep it in their targetted price range.

    Would he have won the WBC using this machine that he supposedly helped design? I dont think so. ;) ::)

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    To tell you the truth, I have no idea who paul Basset is

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by lucinda link=1170029626/15#27 date=1170131966
    To tell you the truth, I have no idea who paul Basset is
    He is the Ozzy (and only Ozzy to ever have) that won the WBC in Boston in 2003 :-)

  30. #30
    Flo
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by Viviane link=1170029626/15#26 date=1170129308
    Doesnt matter who they get to endorse a product - Im aware that the "expert" has been paid money for his/her recommendation, and so I discount it completely. *
    ...puts on the devils advocate hat...

    Ok, thats your prerogative to do so. You may be just throwing the baby out with the bathwater though... The other thing to note is that if you had a reputation within a fairly small industry, would you be wanting to have your name associated with a product or company that could potentially damage your credibility? I dont think so and I dont think Paul does/did either. Reputations are hard to earn but easy to lose...


    Quote Originally Posted by Viviane link=1170029626/15#26 date=1170129308
    In this case its worse - Sunbeam are advertising that Paul Bassett had a hand in the design of the machine.
    Do you, for a fact, know that he didnt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viviane link=1170029626/15#26 date=1170129308
    Would he have won the WBC using this machine that he supposedly helped design? *I dont think so. ;) ::)
    Would he have won it using my Giotto and Mini? That is just a ridiculous question. Was the sunbeam equipment was ever marketed as competition standard...?

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by Flo link=1170029626/15#29 date=1170134597
    The other thing to note is that if you had a reputation within a fairly small industry, would you be wanting to have your name associated with a product or company that could potentially damage your credibility? I dont think so and I dont think Paul does/did either. Reputations are hard to earn but easy to lose...
    Flo....
    Its all about money .... and I suspect lots of it!

    If you are famous and can make a lot out of endorsement (especially if your fame didnt - or wont continue - to earn you similar money) ..... then prostitute your good name and values....

    Heaps of people do it. Firms pay big money to use someones name - and its not their fault (the firm paying or the person accepting the payment) but ours - because we say it must be good...because it is endorsed by .......

    Everyone has a price for their name and their beliefs..... Maybe, just maybe, in this case Paul had faith in the fact Sunbeam wouldnt let him down...... well the rest is history!

  32. #32
    Flo
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1170029626/30#30 date=1170135173
    Flo....
    Its all about money .... and I suspect lots of it!

    Everyone has a price for their name and their beliefs..... Maybe, just maybe, in this case Paul had faith in the fact Sunbeam wouldnt let him down...... well the rest is history!
    Quite possibly.. like I said, I was being devils advocate. I dont have a sunbeam machine or grinder and so I have only read of others misfortunes online.

    In the case of Paul, I neither know him nor met him. But...he did win a major competition and therefore knows a thing or two about coffee. Perhaps had he known then what he knows now, he may have reconsidered his position...who knows? I just hate to see someone slagged because of something beyond their control. I think the manufacturer let more than a few people down, not the least of which is Paul Bassett. Just my second crack...

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by Flo link=1170029626/30#31 date=1170136076

    In the case of Paul, I neither know him nor met him. But...he did win a major competition and therefore knows a thing or two about coffee. Perhaps had he known then what he knows now, he may have reconsidered his position...who knows? I just hate to see someone slagged because of something beyond their control. I think the manufacturer let more than a few people down, not the least of which is Paul Bassett. Just my second crack...
    Yep, I dont think it is in any way shape or form Pauls fault (and I dont know him either).

    Paul knows how to make great coffee - no argument, he knows how to choose a machine (which someone else engineered and built) to make that great coffee..... again no argument.

    But it doesnt mean he (or Sunbeam) know how to BUILD a good - let alone great machine. He knows the sorts of things which are required.... but I would be amazed if he knew how to engineer them.... and if that was being done properly....

    Ill guarantee very few of the worlds greatest sports people know how to make great tennis rackets, soccer balls, surfboards or what ever their "hardware" is. Few world champion racing car drivers would know how to engineer a great car..... but they are frequently called upon to endorse these products- at least in this case its the ones which were actually used when they rose to fame.

    Why do we, the consumers, assume the World Barista Champion - who by definition can make the greatest coffee - knows how to make a coffee machine - but we do - and Sunbeam knows it!

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Flo, I dont see that I in any way "slagged" Paul Bassett. I was making a comment about endorsements in general, and the Sunbeam endorsement in particular. :)

  35. #35
    DrT
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    In view of the last few posts I will say that in the world of bagpipes, some of the best solo players have come out with reeds for the instrument that are claimed to be you-beaut and when you say that are good but not the best, people get on your back REAL quick saying "oh but he/she is world no 1/2/...". You will have to excuse me for asking for a copy of their musical acosutics qualification to prove it, but by doing that your name very quickly becomes mud. Typical yanks though.

    I wonder, is Paul Basset an Engineer or Fluid Dynamicist? Somehow I doubt it so he might have said "I want twin thermoblock", but you can bet your bottom dollar he would not have a clue on how to design or integrate such a thing.

    Its probably like good old Homer who wanted "rack and peanut" steering - he knew the buzzwords but really, he didnt care because he probably wasnt going to buy the car he helped design......

    At the end of the day though, does anybody see Paul Basset within a country mile of a Sunbeam machine? I think he would probably run the other way. When Toll comes back to my front door with my (repaired) EM6900, I do not know whether I will give thanks or curse and slam the door !

    DrT

  36. #36
    Flo
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by Viviane link=1170029626/30#33 date=1170137746
    Flo, I dont see that I in any way "slagged" Paul Bassett.
    I dont believe that I said you did.

  37. #37
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Anyway, this whole endorsement thing is a bit of a side track and doesnt address the QC and customer service issues that apparently plague Sunbeam. I sincerely hope that those who own these machines enjoy many trouble free years of service, and, *should the unthinkable happen and the machine goes to the pack, then Sunbeams customer service clicks into gear with the efficiency of a well oiled machine... :)


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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Good posts Flo... Agree totally...

    Just to clear the air about the Endorsing gig... Paul Bassett was brought on as a consultant - NOT a designer or Engineer. It is NOT his place to QC the machine - The is Sunbeams responsibility... Sure, he may have sold his name (nothing uncommon here - we sell our time everyday at work) - but really the only "known" concerns has been with this new direction of Machines.. IE... EM6900/\/EM6910/\/EM0480 ... I havent "known" (I stand corrected if need be) of any major issues with the "lower" model machines they produce... Call it growing pains if you will... unnecessary as it is...

  39. #39
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by marcstolk link=1170029626/30#37 date=1170196180
    [snip] *... *I havent "known" (I stand corrected if need be) of any major issues with the "lower" model machines they produce... *
    Oh I can state with certainty that they have similar QC issues with the lower class machines.
    We know 3 people with a Cafe Crema (around $200) and they all had to go back within 12 months. One of them went back 3 times. Cant remember if they were all technically within warranty, but I think Sunbeam did the right thing each time and fixed it gratis.

    On a kind of related note, I was surpriused to see whilst looking at the Sunbeam website, that they reckon they have the name Cafe Latte trademarked (or it might just be the word Cafe they think they have trademarked). I thought that was odd.

    Brett.

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    I stand corrected then ;-)

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by varanid99 link=1170029626/0#4 date=1170043721
    Didnt Paul Bassett do an infomercial for Current Affair a couple of years ago? Surely they wouldnt want their show to be associated with a recommendation for a dodgy consumer product, would they?

    Blimey. What have I started here?

    I guess the point I was trying to make wasnt so much that Paul Bassett has sold out, or lost credibility, or himself built a dodgy machine, or eats babies, or whatever....

    The thing that irked me was from the journalistic integrity point of view (and I know that those are two words that shouldnt be associated with such shows. A Current Affair and Today Tonight are always exposing what they see as dodgy operators, or doing product comaprisons a la Choice magazine. But in this case, theyve basically done a bit of advertising for Sunbeam, in the guise of a story, and pretty much recommended the new whiz-bang Sunbeam machine.

    The fact that ths 6900 falls apart most times that it actually gets touched by somebody could, under other circumstances, be the topic of one of their consumer watch type stories.

    Remember what they did to the Paxtons?


    And as for QC of low-end machines, well, yeah, Ive had the self-destruct pf handle, but I wasnt expecting fantastic build quality for a sub-$200 machine (I think through the factory outlet it was $120, so for that, you wouldnt expect it to be much sturdier than a plunger!), and I was probably pushing it beyond its limits (but, funnily enough, doing exactly what they told me in the course). They did send me out a new bit next day though.
    But if Id paid $600+, Id expect build quality of a much better machine....

  42. #42
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Quote Originally Posted by varanid99 link=1170029626/30#40 date=1170203901
    But if Id paid $600+, Id expect build quality of a much better machine....
    As say the consumer laws.

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    On a positive side of customer service, this is what has happened to me in the last 12 (yes 12) hours *regarding an issue I had with a broken Jamie Oliver flavour shaker.


    From: cindy XXXXXXXX
    Sent: 30 January 2007 12:31
    To: Babs McMillan
    Subject: Flavour Shaker in Australia.

    To whom it may concern,

    I Posted the following on the Jamie Oliver forum today. It is an explanation of my experience today when enquiring about what to do about my broken Flavour Shaker.

    "Today I rang the company that distributes the flavour shaker here in Australia (McPhersons Australia), to ask *what I could do about my broken flavour shaker. I also enquired about the new stainless steel model and when it would be available in Australia. I was told that they did not know when - or even if this was happening.

    That didnt bother me too much.

    I explained to the young lady on the phone (Tatiana) that the plastic rim broke the fourth time I had used it. I also explained that I used the flavour shaker properly and it just fell apart in my hands.

    The shop I bought my flavour shaker from is temporarily closed so I asked if I could send my broken flavour shaker to them instead. The young woman put me on hold and came back and told me I really should return it to the shop I bought it from, but if I couldnt, then I could mail it to them and they would assess it but could not guarantee they would send me a replacement.

    I was gobsmacked. The product is faulty. I pointed out that I was using it for the fourth time when it broke. I was using it correctly at the time it broke and they need to assess it and decide whether they wanted to send me a replacement?? I was very polite when I said this and then I just hung up.

    Not happy. I really do not want another plastic flavour shaker, I would have been happy to pay the difference (and postage) for a stainless steel model (which I explained) and these people do not really want to help me out."


    I would appreciate it if you could help me in regards to knowing when the stainless steel model will be available in Australia. I do not really want a replacement plastic model as it seems the plastic rim has a tendency to break.

    Thankyou very much

    Cindy XXXXX



    Their reply

    Hello Cindy

    I have received your email regarding your Jamie Oliver Flavour Shaker.

    Please accept my apologies for the problems you have experienced and assure you that we take complaints very seriously as we put every effort into maintaining high standards of design, quality and function of our products.

    Unfortunately we are not yet in a position to inform you of the arrival of the Stainless Steel version in Australia but if you give me your address I will be happy to send you one as a replacement.

    I have passed your comments to our International Team who will be speaking to our distributor in Australia. *The level of customer care afforded *to you was totally unacceptable and was not up to the standard that we practice here in the UK.

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    With kind regards

    Babs McMillan
    Consumer Relations
    William Levene Ltd
    Bridge House
    Eelmoor Road
    Farnborough
    Hants * * GU14 7UE

    PLEASE NOTE: When replying to an email, please always attach previous correspondence to facilitate a prompt reply, thank you.


    The truth is, I received this reply at 9am this morning (when I checked my mail) after I sent it at 1100 last night. My inbox shows that the reply was there at 1230am. i am very impressed and looking forward to getting my replacement upgraded flavour shaker.

    I very rarely write letters of complaint about poor customer service, I just do not buy from that business again. This has changed lately with the increasing levels of poor customer service. I am more inclined to let people know if I am happy with good customer service as I believe that praise is more beneficial to a business than criticism.



  44. #44
    DrT
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Lucinda - STOP BRAGGING !!!!

    We all know some companies are better than others when dealing with customers and for those who may doubt it, this is just one example to affirm it.

    I too would rather just bite the bullet and not complain about various things - its not my nature, but when it rains it pours !

    You want good customer service? A chap in the USA that purchased a set of McCallum bagpipes from Kilmarnock in Scotland had almost all of the wood crack or warp due to climatic variation (he was in texas after all) and the company sent him a NEW set of the model two rungs up the ladder, i.e. his cost, $2000, the replacement have a value of $3000! He got to keep the old set too - the manufacturer did not even want to see the damage and so he had a spare bag, spare reeds, spare this and spare that amounting to probably $1000. Thats customer service gone wild, and this company would turn over FAR less profit than our favourite manufacturer at the moment.

    Are you getting the message Sunbeam?

    DrT

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Okay Ill stop bragging, believe me I was surprised at the response I got too.

    Maybe you do need to go to Today Tonight or somebody because they do actually get results most of the time. Or you need to send a few letters or emails to somebody higher up the ladder, that is what I ended up doing and I did get a good response. Many a time I have found the middle level managers are the idiots because they have stepped over the good workers and are too busy covering their incompetant asses to give decent service.

    The higher level people usually act fast to prevent any bad customer relations and because they actually do care about the customer.


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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam


  47. #47
    DrT
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Sunbeam sent my stuff back yesterday so I should have the products by end of week.

    Let the games begin!

    DrT

  48. #48
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Good Management understand that a complaint is an opportunity for them.
    Most people DONT complain.
    The ones that do, actually help the business.
    The Management that understands this are the ones that VALUE your complaint.
    They will actually thank you for calling.

    If you can couch your complaint as bringing something to their attention, they should take it OK.

    I had cause to "bring to their attention" some dissatisfaction I had recently with a recruitment agency.

    The recruiter allocated to an advertised position was on leave over Christmas and no one at the office could help me with information on the position.

    I tried unsuccessfully on about six occasion over three weeks, to get any further than "no one can help, call back".

    When she finally returned from leave I spoke to her and she told me the vacancy had been filled just before she proceeded on leave.

    Now why couldnt someone, anyone at the agency, tell me this?
    Obviously there is room for improvement in their processes.

    I was very upset by this time, so after taking a few minutes to compose myself I rang back and asked to speak to the top dog.
    Now that was almost as difficult as my original enquiry.
    The receptionist didnt seem to comprehend my request.
    "The guy in charge, the owner, the boss".
    She wanted to know what my complaint was about so she could direct me to the "right person".
    I explained again that the "right person" was the person as high up as it was possible to go.

    The light came on and she transferred me.
    A woman answered but my suspicions were raised when she started asking questions like a body guard.
    I guess she was the most senior person in the office at the time or the bosss PA.

    She switched me through to the owners mobile phone, explaining he was on a flight back from Adelaide at the moment.

    So I left a message for the Big Cheese and he called me when he got home from the airport.
    Most unexpected as it was getting on into the evening.

    He was most interested and polite.
    Very accepting of my information.
    I started off telling him that my complaint was not about his staff but about the process.
    All the staff had been pleasant and polite.
    But in my mind, they were inflexible and unhelpful (I didnt say this to him).
    Because I was not attacking his staff, I assume that helped in him taking on board my "complaint".
    He tried to talk me into sending my resume anyway in case something came up later.

    I explained I was reluctant to do this because of my experiences with other agencies who seem to collect resumes for some reason.
    Maybe theres an award at the end of the year for the agency with the most.

    But he convinced me that his company was different and he would have a few of his senior recruiters look at my resume and "flag" it in their system for the types of jobs they thought would suit me.
    He was polite and understanding of my experience, so I did send my resume.

    In the end I consider the experience overall, a positive one.
    If he had dismissed me I would have felt worse not better.
    I now dont think as poorly of his business and he has the opportunity to improve the existing work practices.


  49. #49
    DrT
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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Ive got my new grinder and repaired EM6900.

    Methinks there has been some sort of redesign since the new grinder operates way different to the old. The burrs also look alot more "aggressive" if that makes any sense.

    Setting 13-14 is now doing the job whereas before I needed 8, so the different "look" of the burr set does indeed amount to something.

    If the new grinder does the same as the old and starts dropping the required setting I will report it, but heres hoping *;)

    The espresso machine had the steam pump replaced, but it sounds totally different even when making coffee only. Perhaps there was more to the fix than the steam side, but hey, I dont care - I got my machine back and so far so good. ;D

    DrT

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    Re: Be warned about Sunbeam

    Thats great DrT

    Hopefully its the end of your pain....... enjoy...

    You may have had the group collar completely replaced - there has been a change in that area with the EM6910 - and I think Sunbeam are replacing any EM6900s that come in for repair with the EM6910 Group Collar. You essentially (by the sounds of it) have the Em6900 with Em6910 bits ... this is a good thing :)

    Marc



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