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Thread: Doserless Grinder Mazzer Mini E or Fiorenzato Electronic grinder?

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Doserless Grinder Mazzer Mini E or Fiorenzato Electronic grinder?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I'm looking to get a doserless and stepless grinder for the home. The choices are Mazzer Mini E or a Fiorenzato Electronic.
    Both appeals to me. I like the sexiness of the mazzer but the Fiorenzato and its lcd screen and conical burrs looks like an impressive grinder. My worry is support on the Fiorenzato as it's no where near as common as the Mazzer in Oz.

    Really can't find anything much on the Fiorenzato but according to their website, they'd been in the business longer than Mazzer has. Fiorenzato in the mid 30s and Mazzer in the 50s?

    The Fiorenzato by all specs seems to trump the mini E by a mile. Any one has any idea? Assuming the cost is the same (in fact the Fiorenzato is cheaper) which would you choose? Thanks!

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    G'day mate.

    Some random thoughts for you:

    they're all just grinders....just....grinders.

    You put beans in the top, and they come out the bottom ground. End of story. Except in the quality of build of the machine built around the plates/ burrs. That is where the difference is (standard of design and build of total machine), and perhaps in the electronic features. I wager all the burrs come from the same maufacturers of burrs.....and for the rest of it they are still all only commercial coffee grinders, and with the kind of use you will put any of these grinders to in home use, they will all be fantastic.

    And in terms of the specs of one trumping another...as i said, they are just coffee grinders, and you will find the important stuff (quality of grind) will be undetectable to yourn palate from one grinder to the next in real terms ( how can you ever know when there are so many other variables in making a cuppa).

    The question is then, how reliable are the electronics of the fiorenzato? The mazzer is a known quantity, as is the macap which would be my own preference ( macap m4D, mxD or m7D or whatever size). And the next question is, will you ever use the programmable electronics?

    Hope that helps.

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh_Coffee View Post
    G'day mate.

    ...as i said, they are just coffee grinders, and you will find the important stuff (quality of grind) will be undetectable to yourn palate from one grinder to the next in real terms ( how can you ever know when there are so many other variables in making a cuppa).

    The question is then, how reliable are the electronics of the fiorenzato? The mazzer is a known quantity, as is the macap which would be my own preference ( macap m4D, mxD or m7D or whatever size). And the next question is, will you ever use the programmable electronics?

    Hope that helps.
    Hi, Thanks for the input. What about the whole conical verse flat? Fiorenzato 63mm conical vs mazzer mini 64mm flat? I think that's the thing that I'm worried about is the electronic reliability and cost should anything goes wrong with the electronics. I know they are all just grinders...but there's a large visual element to it too. The look of the macaps do not really appeal to me, there's a certain "softness" to the look compared to the more masculine Mazzer and the Fiorenzato. There's a $215 price difference in favour of the Fiorenzato. Does anyone know about the reliability of the electronics? Cleanability is another factor.

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    Others will differ but I dont go the whole conical VS flat thing. Its up to individual prefrence in the end, and flat plates are easier to work with (dont require much bedding in, good coffee straight up). Flat plates dont last as long as conicals so.....you replace them! And then they are again easier to deal with straight up.

    You may find the conical delivers more volume grinds in the same amount of time, than the flats (or you may not depending on the speed of the individual models).

    Its all about speed of delivery in a volume situation, such as doesnt happen at home.

    I dont know anything about the electronics of the fiorenzato offering, but as a brand of grinder its as good as many.

    Ultimately you shouldnt need to worry as long as you trust the source of the guarantee (ie after sales service delivery if required).

    Going again to the macap simply because it is what i like and work with all the time, I can tell you that the electronics in their "electronic" grinders are very very stable, to the point where we have had a small number of cases where they've been filled with condensation due to external reasons, and the grinders kept operating as required without missing a beat,even though the displays didnt come back until all was completely dried spo,me time later. If the fiorenzato is that reliable, it will be a fine grinder.


    Hope that helps.

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Thanks FC,

    I think I'll stick with Mazzer simply because of the sheer overwhelming availability of parts and service and the simpler electronics in the Mini E compared to the complex Fiorenzota. I think it might make more sense in a commercial environment to have the Fiorenzota...although that touch screen looks awfully nice!

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    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
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    I gotta chime in. Sorry, but if you are brewing filter coffee, manually, grinders do matter from one to the next, and your palate will tell. Some grinders deliver a more uniform and consistent grind than others. Be it at a specific grind coarseness or across the board.

    If you are brewing mostly milk drinks, it's probably not as important.

    I have a Mazzer Mini manual at home, and I love it, but, it produces a pretty poor grind consistency with regards to fines at coarser grind settings (used for filter brewing). It's a $750 grinder (from memory) and at the time it seemed very expensive.

    I find the Mazzer strong, reliable, bulletproof one would seem, it's so stable and a real beast. However. These days, far cheaper grinders can deliver a far superior grind quality than my mini. For example, the Baratza Virtuoso Preciso is around $330 retail and can grind FAR better than a mazzer mini. It's way faster, has far less grind rention (under .4gm) and is far more consistent across the board with regards to grind particle size. Read up on them, I urge you. This unit delivers grinds as good as unit's almost ten times it's price.

    the con? it's not as pretty, probably not as solid, etc.

    I would seriously consider visiting your closest equipment supplier and trialing what is on offer.

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Thanks JamesM,

    It will be specifically for Espresso only. Incidentally there's a difference between the manual and the E on the burr size manual being 58mm and the E being 64mm. I'm under the impression that makes a difference...at least on the speed of grind and the temperature of the grind. Besides, my other grinder is the Obel DSQ grinder with doser which is stepped and I have been using this for both espresso and pour over with good results. It's excellent be able to quickly adjust the grind from coarse to fine but I want a stepless for that in-between without playing with my dose level with fresh beans. Pretty extravagent just for the sake of consistant dosing...but there's still space on the bench!! I did look at the Baratza...but it just looks too plasticky for me.

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    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
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    Correct, the mini-e has a SJ size burr. Don't get me wrong, they're good grinders. I love my doser mini, however, for less than half the price I know (fact) the Baratza Preciso grinds better (even espresso). They use a Mahlkoenig/Ditting burr. Technology eh...

    From memory, someone was using a Fiorenzato at WBC this year, the live stream (video) showed an absolutely incredible dose/distribution straight out of this grinders spout. It made the K30 look clumpy and slow.

    I have friends who use mini-e's at home and love them. You could also go 2nd hand. You can pick up a major for under $800 these days. If you are keen on Mazzer. Agree they are so popular and parts are easy to find.

    Personally I believe the grinder is more important than the espresso machine. I bought my mazzer when I was still using my sunbeam em6910.

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    What's a good price for a used mini e?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesM View Post
    I gotta chime in. Sorry, but if you are brewing filter coffee, manually, grinders do matter from one to the next, and your palate will tell. Some grinders deliver a more uniform and consistent grind than others. Be it at a specific grind coarseness or across the board..............
    I have a Mazzer Mini manual at home, and I love it, but, it produces a pretty poor grind consistency with regards to fines at coarser grind settings (used for filter brewing)...........
    Yes, the MM, & both grinders that the OP is asking about are designed primarily for use in espresso making.....
    b3no likes this.

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    Like Fresh_Coffee said grinders are grinders.. I've had mini mazzer, super jolly, major, compak k3, k6, wega 6.8 konik ( rebadged K10 ) doser less and doser.. I think realistically buy what your going to enjoy looking at everyday. I purchased a manual grinder for my aeropress and ccd so I didn't have to play around with my espresso grinder.

    I had a major and 2 compak's (k6 and rebadged k10) at the same time and while using the same coffee on my vbm jr, I and my friends couldn't tell the difference especially with milk based drinks.. Even short blacks where just about impossible to tell apart... I now have the rebadged k10, cause I wanted a big conical and a commercial lever at home..

    Can I taste the difference.. No, do I care, No, because I have what "I" wanted regardless of what others said. So ask questions, read reviews but at this price point >$500 most won't know the difference. You'll get faster grinding, bigger burrs, fancier electronics but hell, at home who cares......

    You just need to be happy with YOUR decision because in the end it's you using and making the coffee everyday. And remember if you use shit beans regardless of your equipment you'll make shit coffee

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Don't worry about the beans side. I like my corretto roasted SOs. Actually I never asked about the effect of taste as much as reliability and servicability. Let's see if I can get a good deal on a used mazzer mini E Doserless.

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    If you want real reliability, regardless of taste get a mortar and pestle. Enjoy your mazzer

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Already have a mortal and pestal...the other thing is it needs to look good on the bench

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    I'm sure it will

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    I got a pair of Fiorenzatos F6 83mm blades......Great grinders

    There is heaps of difference between grinders and taste in the cup

    Get what you can afford..... Don't be shy about the Fiorenzato, I'd rate mine above Mazzer Major

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    Hey Saoye watching my vids hasn't given you the Mini-e bug has it?

    My two cents:

    I haven't used any other grinders beside the mini, rocky and Breville

    What I like:
    - Solid construction, buttons feel reassuring, case it cast metal ( you could break your hand on it)
    - Grinds are fluffy and free of clumping
    - Grinds are consistent with no movement in collar
    - Extraction is improvement over other grinders I have used
    - adjustability
    - cleaning is fairly easy; parts remove/fit back together snugly

    What I dont like
    - Adjusting collar can be troublesome with micro adjustments. I got around this 75% by fitting another adjustment pin.
    - Timing mechanism takes some getting used to. Your blind essentially but with time you learn to fly that said once it's dialed in I find I have to make little to no changes. Always reccommend have at least 500g in any bean type to get the enjoyment out of having it dialed in.

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Hi ITC,

    I do enjoy watching your vids. I think we both started about the same time with the vids. I have a stepped grinder which is great to adjust from coarse to fine and back very quickly. What triggered this was my play with the Faema that was a bit more demanding than my tweaked Giotto. I found I was missing a perfect pour due to the ideal grind was in between a step of the grinder. So I'm looking for another grinder...and it may as well be doserless. looking around the mazzer looks the prettiest. Also, the reason for 2 grinders is that I have currently multiple green beans and I'd like to not have to adjust grind settings when I have two different SOs roasted. So will dial the mazzer in for 1 etc.

    Thanks for the input. I am quite thorough when cleaning out grinds for every shot with my existing grinder...and from the way the wire mesh and the guards cover the mazzer mini e grinder it might get to me.

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    Hi,

    I've been quoted $1480 for a Fiorenzato F64 Electronic, is that a reasonable price? From what I understand it is similar to a Mazzer Super Jolly Electronic.

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    So I got my Mazzer mini E type A today in black. Looks good. I'll have to run a few beans through it to get the right settings and grind time. As expected, with all the guards in place I cannot get to the exit chute to brush out grind. I'm tempted to use compressed air to blow the grind out from behind the grill each time...hehe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saoye View Post
    So I got my Mazzer mini E type A today in black. Looks good. I'll have to run a few beans through it to get the right settings and grind time. As expected, with all the guards in place I cannot get to the exit chute to brush out grind. I'm tempted to use compressed air to blow the grind out from behind the grill each time...hehe.
    I just disgard the initial few grams with the single dose button.

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Is that grinding new beans and discard?
    Last edited by saoye; 29th August 2012 at 06:12 PM.

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    The new line up looks good on the bench.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    caffeinated lemoo's Avatar
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    love the jam funnel!

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    Senior Member iggs's Avatar
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    nice Saoye! what are you going to do with the old school Bezerra grinder? mine is still going strong haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by saoye View Post
    Is that grinding new beans and discard?
    Yep. I just set the single dose button to deliver a few grams and use that to purge the old grinds out.

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    caffeinated lemoo's Avatar
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    that's what i do with my macap too which is abit hard to clear with a brush I had a laugh

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    I will keep the bezzera Doser grinder for when we have guests...quicker to grind into Doser and then dose consecutive shots.

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    I'm just about to purchase the mini-e (updated electrics). Where did you get the funnel for the mini? Do you weigh your beans with this arrangement?

    That was my process with the rocky previously but am questioning if I should be doing it with the mini.

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    TC
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    G'day ogip,

    The alternative is the super short 320g hopper which is not that much bigger. We have some.

    Chris

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogip View Post
    I'm just about to purchase the mini-e (updated electrics). Where did you get the funnel for the mini? Do you weigh your beans with this arrangement?

    That was my process with the rocky previously but am questioning if I should be doing it with the mini.
    Hi ogip, yes I still weigh my beans...I just find that it takes out the guess work. I allow an additional 1gm of beans for purging any stale grinds left in the funnel.
    The funnel unfortunately I've only found available in the UK. Others available in Oz have a handle and I didn't want a handle on the funnel. Search "Kilner funnel". I got it from an online auction u know where. Note though that the neck of this funnel is actually a fair bit narrower than the mini e's throat so I've used a moka pot gasket to cushion it and stop any rattling (see photo attached). Also I put a spare double basket on top when I grind to stop the beans bouncing out.

    Alternatively you could get the short hopper that's meant to go with the mazzer which looks perfect and has a lid!

    IMGP0587.JPG

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    Senior Member BLrdFX's Avatar
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    A grinder decision should first be based on taste in the cup because conical and flat burrs taste different. Then think quality of manufacture and ergonomics and the space into which you plan to put the grinder. Final thought, $$$$$.

    If you put $$$$$$ first the quality of the preceding items could be compromised.

    I started with a Spong hand grinder. Then to a blade grinder (big mistake) then to a Rocky (it was a good one and lasted years) and finally the decision to get a Pharos, A Versalab and a Mazzer Kony-E. I traded in one hobby for another so $$$$ was not a big issue but space was/is.

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    Thanks everyone for the info.
    I'm off to Chris' tomorrow morning. The mini is still the lead case and will check out the shorter hopper.

    blrdfx you do raise an interesting point with taste. Didn't realise that taste was impacted by type of burr. Theoretically it makes sense but not sure if my buds are dialled in to pick up the subtleties. Will see if its possible to do a comparison and if I can pick it up.
    I just have to make sure I take the placebo out of the equation!! As tempting as a kony is...

  35. #35
    Senior Member BLrdFX's Avatar
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    You might prefer the flat burr taste, which would save you a bunch of money. The Kony clumps like crazy and with static screen removed it is not so bad with clumping but the static is much worse! If I were to get a machine of that size and cost again I would consider a Compak K-10 Fresh (slower rotational speed).

    On the Fiorenzato machines the cord exits the side of the machine and that might be an issue with your counter setup.

    As far the the 2 large $$$$ machines I own the Versalab M3 is the smallest in size, has the best grind quality and is super easy to change grind setting from espresso to drip and back. The Kony is the easiest to just grind a fixed setting and then de-clumping what it produced in the basket is required.

    I had a Rocky that worked well (must have been built on a Tuesday or Wednesday) and the grind was pretty good. The taste was different and maybe I should have kept it for taste comparisons. I had owned it for over 6 years and nothing ever went wrong, except stale coffee. I would think the MINI-E Mazzer would be in that rock solid category.

    I have noticed with the Kony hopper that if it is almost empty the programmed electronic dosing goes wacky but when full it is predictable. I suspect the MINI-E would do the same since it is probably the same system. I put on a Mini Short Hopper and get the same results. I have been making lexan tube hoppers that hold 1/4 lb or less and they need a weight on top of the beans for the electronic dosing to be effective.

    Whatever you get enjoy the coffee!!

  36. #36
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    So it's been over 2 months with the Mini E mod A and I've been predominantly using it instead of the Bezzera DSQ stepped grinder. I do use the stepped grinder when I have 2 SOs that grind at very different settings which has been a real bonus.

    Now I know I am being anal here but grinding 2g or so of beans out of the chute to clear the retention in the mini E has been annoying the hell out of me. last week the mini E started clumping like crazy out of nowhere so I took out the burrs and gave it all a good clean and looked at the chute just infront of the grind plates and it was chock full of grind. I don't believe that by grinding a few g of beans would clear all that out...maybe much of it but I hate the thought of drinking stale grind. So now I've taken the finger guard off and am brushing out the grind behind the screen with a long brush. At least I can now visually see that I have cleared it all. I orderd a Giottos Q Ball angleable air blower (funny about the brand of the blower) off the bay and am hoping this will help me blow out the last few bits I cannot reach with the brush since the static screen makes it hard to reach right to the back of the chute.

    I know it's ridiculous but now that I saw the amount of retention I can't let it go. You should see how spotless I brush out the doser of the other grinder!



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