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Thread: Whats better- Dosed vs dosless? Stepped vs non-stepped? and help with grinder.

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    Whats better- Dosed vs dosless? Stepped vs non-stepped? and help with grinder.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hey Guys,

    This is my second set of questions...
    I have decided I need a new grinder

    1. Whats generally better, dosed or dose-less?.... and why?....Whats industry standard?
    2. Again, what is better and why- Stepped or non-stepped?

    I keep coming across three entry level grinders ( and I acknowledge there have been some comparisons already)...

    All in all.... What would you choose... Baratza Preciso ( stepped, non dosed), Breville smart BCG800 ( stepped, dosed) or Breville EM480 -- which I belive is just an older version of the smart grinder... without being smart.

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    You can add another to that, the Macap M2 at around I believe $69.00 more than the Preciso. It delivers the goods, and should outlast all the grinders you mentioned by a considerable margin (ie reliability over time). And at a similar price or less I believe than the Isomac Gran Macinino, it will beat the gran macinino hands down, to name just one more. You will be looking at performance / reliability over time / expected life span (type of build) / budget, and somewhere in there there will be a model to suit you.

    By the way, do you mean the Sunbean EM480?

    Dose Vs doserless is up to the individual. There are plenty of happy operators in both camps and in the end, you will get used to the type you buy.

    Re the stepped VS stepless discussion. If you buy a low end grinder, nothing is going to save you. And if you buy a good grinder, it will probably be a good grinder whether it is stepped or stepless and there are pros and cons to both as well as different methods of adjustment within the stepless group.....it depends on the type of use you want to give your new grinder, as to which I would recommend to you.

    I would also like to recommend you speak to a professional experienced equipment trader to balance & complete the discussion when you are ready to purchase.

    Hope that helps.


    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor

    And yes, we are professional experienced equipment traders if you would like to talk to us. Find us in the list of site sponsors.

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    Thank you Fresh coffee, I will email one of your equipment traders.

    1. Just as a quick generalization ( if the MACAP M2 stretches the budget just a little too much)--- do you believe the Breville smart or the Preciso or the EM480 is best??( and yes sorry I did mean the sunbeam... obviously a little confused there)...

    2. Also curious about the steped setting on the Preciso Vs. Macap. Preciso scored very well in reviews due to both Macro and micro settings. Does the Macap have as many 'steps'?

    Thanks for your prompt reply. I will definitely be sure to go into a few more details in the email to you guys as traders.

    Definitely made the decision difficult. (Good thing to know all the options though)

    Cheers

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    Also just a quick note... I can not see the Macap M2 under your products. Would love to know your pricing. a Quick google shows Presciso for around 300 and Macap considerably more at 430

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    Thank you Fresh coffee, I will email one of your equipment traders.

    .........Thank you........

    1. Just as a quick generalization ( if the MACAP M2 stretches the budget just a little too much)--- do you believe the Breville smart or the Preciso or the EM480 is best??( and yes sorry I did mean the sunbeam... obviously a little confused there)...

    .............Realistically it comes down to the budget you are prepared to allocate......it could be that the EM480 is "best" because it may offer the best value for money overall. OR the Smart may be "best" because the total package incl standard of grind may be on par with the Preciso, for a better price? However the Smart would appear to me more technically complicated and may (or may not, hasnt been round long enough yet to see) be more technically prone to "service difficulties" (and cost to repair) over time, so it may be better to spend more say on the Preciso in the first place, to have less inconvenience and spend less with possible fewer repairs in the long run? And if that be the case, then it may present the case to enter the Macap M2 which will undoubtedly be the simplest and strongest built of the lot (its a miniature cafe build grinder).....?

    2. Also curious about the steped setting on the Preciso Vs. Macap. Preciso scored very well in reviews due to both Macro and micro settings. Does the Macap have as many 'steps'?

    .............No. I find the discussions on "stepless" and now "macro and micro stepped" grinders interesting. The M2 is available in both stepped and micrometric (stepless) but it depends on whatever the importers (us and others) bring in at any given time. Anyone that cant adapt their operator technique to cater for modern commercial type stepped grinders, frankly doesnt know enough about coffee making, and that is not the exclusive domain of professional baristas, but anyone that wants to get into this level of coffee making at home. The steps in this level of grinder are perfectly adequate for high level coffee making.........


    Thanks for your prompt reply.

    ............You're welcome.......

    Also just a quick note... I can not see the Macap M2 under your products. Would love to know your pricing. a Quick google shows Presciso for around 300 and Macap considerably more at 430

    ......Alas I am sorry to say that website is dead in the water and we are not bothering to update it. We are on programme to place up a brand new website in a month or atleast by the end of February. If you can buy a Preciso for (around) $300.00 then someone is willing to sell for zero profit (unlikely), or the importer is undercutting his resellers (hopefully, very unlikely). The importer website shows it at $330.00 (presumably +fr) and in view of it being the (exclusive) Oz importer website that should be the bottom line, but wrt Macap there are a number of importers (incl ourselves) so selling prices will vary. For better or worse our policy at this time is not to place prices in public view on the web....

    HTH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh_Coffee View Post
    Thank you Fresh coffee, I will email one of your equipment traders.


    .............No. I find the discussions on "stepless" and now "macro and micro stepped" grinders interesting. The M2 is available in both stepped and micrometric (stepless) but it depends on whatever the importers (us and others) bring in at any given time. Anyone that cant adapt their operator technique to cater for modern commercial type stepped grinders, frankly doesnt know enough about coffee making, and that is not the exclusive domain of professional baristas, but anyone that wants to get into this level of coffee making at home. The steps in this level of grinder are perfectly adequate for high level coffee making.........


    HTH
    I must admit, as you can see, yes I am very new to this. I am far from knowing enough about coffee making... but am reading as much as possible and throwing myself in the deep end and going to buy a better grinder. Then I can play and read and see how it works
    Thanks again

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    Oops, didnt mean that to sound like a shot at you.....it was intended to be directed at the standard of discussion in surrounding the topic in the past which always seemed to say that "stepless is good" and "stepped is somehow bad". Without the proper type of discussion for each individual case, as a generalisation the statement is simply wrong, but you read it on the web so it must be true......

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellofellow View Post
    I must admit, as you can see, yes I am very new to this. I am far from knowing enough about coffee making... but am reading as much as possible and throwing myself in the deep end and going to buy a better grinder. Then I can play and read and see how it works
    Thanks again
    Hi hellofellow
    There is lot to learn!

    Just a little follow up to Chris' point with stepped/micro adjustment.

    I have a micro-adj Macap M4, which is great! Gives really fine control for espresso pour settings. However, if you need to make large adjustments often (like going from espresso to plunger grind) it can be a pain requiring 30-40 full turns of the tiny screw then back again! (although I did find out only the other day - after 4 years! - that you can remove some screws from the microadjuster and flip it back "oral b fliptop head style" to make large yet innaccurate adjustments).

    If you want to brew all sorts of coffee styles (plunger, turkish etc etc) the stepped might be more everyday practical - you can easily make up for the 'slightly' coarser adjustments with dose/tamp technique.

    So in the end - personal pref, what you'll use it for mainly & what you can afford!

    Good hunting :-)
    Matt

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    I would have to agree with Matt that for different brew methods (including espresso, and manual filter brewing) a stepped grinder is easier to use than stepless. (through my own experiences, owning both types of grinder). Of course, bonus if the stepped grinder has 'micro' adjustments to really dial in that espresso.

    On the subject of Baratza Preciso, you can adjust 40 macro steps with about 180deg of hopper turning, then dial in the micro adjustments on a separate ring which slides about 70deg. The entire micro slider is equiv to one single macro adjustment, so we're talking 400+ possibilities.

    For espresso only, it's hard to beat stepless so simple and accurate!

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    Thanks again guys. I'm nearly set on the Preciso I think. Although, Fresh Coffee, I have emailed the address provided on the website inquiring about a price on the M2 before making a decision. No reply as of yet, as you said you don't like the price to be displayed publicly, is it possible for you to PM me?

    Now I am going to have to start a new thread on grind size and modification of my basket haha (after a little search, that is). This is definitely a world that sucks you and and there is infinite knowledge.

    Cheers

  11. #11
    TC
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    Having experienced many variations of each style, it's neither here nor there- on the proviso that a gross movement of the collar brings about the grind adjustment- e.g. Mazzer, Compak et al. Most are users are capable of returning a collar to the same place- steps or not.

    The only consideration is if a grinder is to be used for dramatically different grind sizes, you'd look to avoid worm drive style adjustment mechanisms. They are precise but too slow for big changes in particle size.

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    Hellofellow. There is a glitch in the PM system in this site and some users (myself included) are unable to send new, or reply to incoming PM's. However, we can receive and read incomings........(and cant do anything about them....)

    In which case can you please PM me your email address. I can read that, then make direct contact by email off forum tomorrow morning.


    Grind setting is dependent on the machine you buy or are using. If you subsequently "upgrade" to a different machine, the grind setting may change, just as it can/will every time you buy a new bag of beans, or change from one blend or SO to another, or as the same bag of beans ages (if it was bought fresh). If it was bought stale, once you set the grind adjustment to try and get the "best" possible result, the setting wont change. And of course grind setting will also depend on your coffee making technique.

    Paying for a lesson will get you more advanced more quickly on the road to making good coffee, than if you struggle through trying to "get it" by yourself by reading the forums. Either way is enjoyable, but paying for a lesson cuts to the chase. If you buy a machine from a walk in showroom rather than from an internet site in the sky, and depending on the package you select, you should be able to get some kind of hands on starter lesson thrown into your deal.

    PM me?

    HTH

    Thank you.



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