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Thread: Rocky doserless Question

  1. #1
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    Rocky doserless Question

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    hey guys, I just got my new rocky. having trouble fitting my loaded pf under the chute. Does anyone know if you can move the PF holder lower or do i need to take an angle grinder to the chute?

    Thanks

    SC

  2. #2
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    You cant really lower the pf holder, so its probably the angle grinder option. Before you do that, though, you might try removing the pf when it is dosed about level and rapping it a few times to settle, then topping up.

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    I did the angle grinder thing.. It works beautifully now!!

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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Sink cut link=1174020744/0#0 date=1174020744
    hey guys, I just got my new rocky. having trouble fitting my loaded pf under the chute. Does anyone know if you can move the PF holder lower or do i need to take an angle grinder to the chute?

    Thanks

    SC
    Ive noticed the same problem. The chute seems about 5mm too low and always knocks the top off my grounds if I overfill. I rattle the portafiller around heaps while filling to settle the grounds and stop midway to knock level and tamp, then fill again.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    it took me about 2 days with mine to take off the stainless PF holder and then you can hold it as high or low as you want and shake it from side to side Tailor style to settle the grinds. Never looked back!

    Cheers

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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Hey Ozscott Did you have to remove the motor mountings to get the PF holder off?

    I notice you also have an EM6910. I am having a few issues matching my new rocky to my EM6910. As I wrote in another discussion:
    "Hey, I just upgraded my grinder from KG100 to a rocky. Took about 6 -10pours before i had the right grind for a consistant 30-35 sec pour.
    HUGE difference to taste. The bitterness from my espresso has been drasticly reduced. For the first time ever i do not need to add sugar. On the negative side my coffees have less body and are fairly bland compared to what i was producing with the same beans and my KG100. The crema, while still plentiful, is paler and not as toffee like. I must admit that my kg100 was getting pours more around the 50 sec mark.

    I do not know if my new espresso is technically better or not.

    I am dosing about 20g for about 50-60 ml espresso in 35 sec. I have my brew temp on EM6910 set to 94. During my pours *the pressure guage is in the black. What do you pros recon i should do to increase my body and flavour again?"

    I think my KG100 added a fair bit of very fine grinds to my PF therfore giving me more flavour and body and Thick thick stripey crema (even though possibly bitter) with the same beans. *I am having trouble achieving the same kind of body, flavour and crema with the Rocky. I am dosing my double baskett close to 20gms. I shake the basket as it fills, level off with my finger and tamp at about 13kg(guess) . My grind setting is set so i get a 30-40 second pour with the above dosing technique.

    I am thinking of adding a few seconds of super fine grinds to my pf and mixing it in - but this does not feel like a good habit to get into!

    I need to change somthing as i am getting depressed. I would love to know what other Rocky + EM6910 owners do and how their crema and body is?

    Thanks

    SC

  7. #7
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Ok mate. No worries. I have had the combinaton of EM and Rocky for about 8 months at a guess. I just pulled the holder straight out from memory - its just pressed or fitted in from the outside from memory. You will need to do that with this machine to get the right dose - otherwise grind into a container and then fill the PF.

    I dont think that you have dossed enough. The guage in the black means that your overextracting. Your extractions times are confirming that - ie too long. You shouldnt add extra fine grinds to add flavour. At that extraction your needle is probably bouncing a little bit also - ie the pump is struggling a little.

    Can I reccomend backing off the rocky a few settings to start with (say 2-3 spots). Ok grind into the PF and shake a little to settle the grinds - dont press. Grind more until she is full, but not overfllowing - then stop and level with little finger to the edges - dont push down. Then grind more into it like a little volcano - about 1.5 cms high in the centre. Then level a little bit carefully - ie so that you have a table top mountain now but still probably 8mm or so above the PF sides. Then place the PF on the bench top and tamp HARD - ie using about 30 pounds of pressure which is a lot - you can use the bathroom scales to test and get the hang of that. The tamp should be even and straight down and then end by twisting the tamper evenly 90 degrees to polish the top of the puck.

    Make sure the group head is clean - use paper towel to get up into the slots. Then stick in your handle and twist all the way to the right - when the EMs seal is bedded in it will go 30-45 degrees to the right from centre.

    Hit the double button - your ideal pour is half way in the yellow (ie upright needle) to JUST off the yellow where the brown starts. In that band you will get very good pours and very good extraction times. With good fresh beans you will get tiger striping also. You will now if the dose is right when, if you tamp as hard as you should - really as hard as you can within reason, the puck is still only 3-4mms under the rim of the basket...and your puck will show a definate shower screen and phillips head screw imprint after the pour - if not - up dose.

    If the extraction is still too long - ie over 20-35 seconds max then do another one and check. If the same, then play with the grind not the dose until you get the proper extraction - ie if the pour is too fast fine up the grind in 1 setting increments. If its still too long then coarsen it up in the same increments. You will get excellent coffee with this combination!!!

    Cheers

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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Thanks Ozscott, Ill give that a go.
    I think i may have also skewed my taste a bit as i hav been enjoying the 40-50 second pour with needle just in the black. Previously whenever i have had the needle upright i am getting thick foamy streams coming from the PF rather than the thin dark toffee honey like streams. This is why i have aimed for needle in the black. - you are right the needle does move a bit.

    Also the grind setting i am currently using for the two coffees i am playing with is 9 and 13 points above true zero(where my empty burrs whisper, +2 on my machine). When i take your advice this will make my settings about 11-12 and 15 -16 above true zero. Does that sound right?

  9. #9
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Sounds about right mate but they are all a little different. The updosing will get your rich dark crema back.

    Let us know how you get on.

    I am happy to offer any humble assistance where I can.

    Cheers

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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Thanks Ozcott,

    One more thing... When I tamp i have been placing the PF on the edge of the bench top so the weight of the tamp is not on the spouts but on the front of the PF (big help with single spout). Is this how you do it, or, do you think this can lead to an uneaven tamp?

    Thanks

    SC

  11. #11
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    I stick it on the spouts mate - I reckon that they can cop it - so far no problems and if they did break...back to Sunbeam for a whole new handle
    !!!!

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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    And do you time from when you flick the switch, or after the pre infusinon?

  13. #13
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    after pre-infusion - ie from the point where the pour starts coming out of the spout(s).

    Cheers matey

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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Cool, Thanks for your help.
    I set my grind 2 points corser, overdosed, tamped HARD. To get the timing right i had to keep uping my dose to the poit that i can feel it touch the screen when i put the PF in the GH.
    When the time was right the needle was right near or on the boarder between Tan and dark brown. My crema is darker, flavours are stronger and brighter. Body still thin to my taste but i suspect thats how its supposed to be.

    I will post some photos of my process here after lunch.

    Thanks Again
    SC

  15. #15
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Good to hear mate. With that level on the extracrometer I reckon that your pours are probably 30-35 seconds for 25 mls at a guess.

    Cheers

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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Here are some pics of what is now fairly typical.... Keen to get some feed back. this was about 60ml in 30 sec. I know needles a bit on the high side, but if its lower the shot seems too quick.....

    Ready to go....

    [img]


    [/img]


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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    My Camera is pretty shity and wont focus up close.... anyway....

    start pour....



  18. #18
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Mid pour...



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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    End...



  20. #20
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    out of focus.. but anyway....



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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Keen to know what anyone thinks - i am just a beginner here. Shots tasted fairly thin and bright maybe just a litte bit bitter..... but I really dont have a refined espresso pallet!!!

    Thanks

    SC

  22. #22
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    mate I doubt that better looking shots can be achieved with consistency like that...but we might get others to send photos.

  23. #23
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Agree,

    Those shots look as good as you can get. I guess as far as taste is concerned, that can be determined by a number of other factors quite apart from how good a shot looks in the glass, most notably of which is the the quality and freshness of beans used, the degree of roast, the temperature of the pour.... and the list goes on.

    Whats important is how it tastes to you and if as you describe, it is a bit thin, bright and a little bitter; then you could try a change of beans or the degree of roast (if youre roasting at home) before you start playing around with the temperature settings on your machine (I dont know how difficult or easy this is on a SB EM6910).

    If it is easy to adjust the brew water Temp on the SB, then you could set it a couple of degrees higher/lower at a time, pour a shot then taste it and so on.... see if that improves things to your taste and then settle on a temp that works the best. Youll probably find that different beans/blends will respond differently to various Temp settings and what works for one bean might not be the best for another. At least, thats what I discovered with my PIDed Imat Mokita...... Very handy when you can adjust the Brew Temp at the press of a button, encourages you to experiment a little.

    Anyway, as you may have gathered, its bit difficult for the likes of us here looking at photos and then trying to advise you on what to do next but from these piccies the shots look pretty darn good,

    Cheers,
    Mal.

  24. #24
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Mal is a man of much coffee depth. Its easy to change brew temp. Press two buttons together and then chose one of 5 buttons for up and down temp...walla.

    Cheers

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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Thanks For comments guys, i will try mucking around with the brew temp a bit tomorrow. I currently have it up by two degrees which seemed to make it lose an initial sour taste last week... but last week i had very different grind and dose. so ill take it back down and see how it goes.

    Thanks

    SC

  26. #26
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Yes SC,

    If youve got the facility to adjust the brew temperature so easily, dont be afraid to experiment either up or down until youre getting the best out of the beans..... That is what its all about after all ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Dropped the temp back down to the default 92 degrees for some back to back comparisons . I did notice a reduction in that bitterness i was getting, and i still did not have the sourness that originally caused me to bump it up. Overall a good result.

    I found i can get more body by grinding 1 point finer with the same dose tamp method and ending the pour at about 50 -70% voulme - ristretto i guess. The pressure gauge points higher when i do this (still in the brown but close to the red) but i am happy with the end result. - have not tried this technique with the lower temp yet.

    Thanks again for your help guys..

    SC

  28. #28
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    Re: Rocky doserless Question

    Another trick, if you like more body and crema, is to grind slightly coarser so that your shots pour a little quicker, between 20-25 seconds (you might have to jiggle the dose quantity a little with the Rocky as the step changes can be a little coarse for fine tuning of this type), and you will notice an increase to the body in your shots. I do this sometimes just to see how the texture of the shot varies from one bean to the next.... The motto always is, keep experimenting as you dont know if youre missing out on something really great by making just the slightest of changes ;).

    Cheers,
    Mal.



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