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Thread: Burr size and falvour extraction

  1. #1
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    Burr size and falvour extraction

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi Guys,
    My current set up is a breville smart grinder and Giotto PP V2. Now I am very happy with the consistency of drinks that I produce but have noticed that I cant get seem to extract the same amount of intensity or mouthfeel as I would if I go to my regular cafe. Ive tried to isolate any issues with my technique and made sure that I do the same process everytime

    Single dose 22g into naked portafilter, flush, pull shot. I understand temperature can play a big part of extracting certain flavours but I'm going with what I got.

    Now Im hoping to purchase compak k3 push, which obviously has much larger burrs that the breville sg. Once dialed in would I be expecting more "flavours" so to speak due to the larger burrs and potentially finer grind?

    Hopefully this aint too confusing,
    Cheers

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    I have both these grinders, so regularly I am comparing them, across a variety of different machines, brewing methods and different beans.

    The K3 certainly does give a more consistent, less clumpy grind when grinding really fine for espresso. The flavour profile is richer and deeper. It takes longer to blond during shot.

    Smart grinder is better for filter or cold brewing, but also holds its own with some types of beans for espresso, sometimes i like it when using one of my levers, which seem to give rounder, deeper flavours straight off the bat, using the K3 ends up rich little choc hits, depends what you like or feel like at the time.

    Overall if had to choose between them K3 wins, but I still think the SG represent excellent value and quite user friendly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve82 View Post
    I have both these grinders, so regularly I am comparing them, across a variety of different machines, brewing methods and different beans.

    The K3 certainly does give a more consistent, less clumpy grind when grinding really fine for espresso. The flavour profile is richer and deeper. It takes longer to blond during shot.
    Thanks Steve, that exactly the type of answer I was looking for! I guess now its decifering a cost vs benefit approach. Benefit being deeper and richer flavours.

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    I have similar gear to you (SG and duetto) and have been having the same issue (not as rich, less complexity, perhaps, where to next?). I ended up finding that with the SG and most beans, a dose of around 18g gave a much better result in general compared with doses closer to 20g and beyond. After much thought and discussion and deciding that the coffees I like the best come out of big conicals, I skipped the flats and went to a HG-ONE. Its just been delivered and I'm in the process of getting acquainted with it, so I'll let you know how things go.

    Pete

  5. #5
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    Hi guys,

    Whilst the Breville is a good entry level starter grinder, it's simply not good enough to do the Duetto justice. It's just not an appropriate match.

    CS mantra is money on the grinder and save it on the machine if need be- not vice versa. There is very sound rationale for this.

    Potential purchasers in the $1.5k+ range on a machine should be looking at minimum Compak K3P. Any Mazzer/Macap equivalent or better is also suitable.

    Bottom line is that you don't put diesel into your Ferrari!
    Last edited by TC; 28th November 2013 at 11:12 AM. Reason: dystypolexia
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    Upon taking everyone's advice on board I have made the plunge and scored myself a Mazzer Kony E.!

    Let the fun begin!
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    Kony? Now you are talking I had a laugh please let us know the taste comparison

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    Congrats cc,

    There is still nothing available which I would consider as a replacement for my Kony-e. See you over in http://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/2...ers-group.html

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    Way to go "cc"...

    Mal.

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    After having a good play with the grinder. I was actually surprised how easily I managed to dial it in. Though still trying to get get used to purging stale grinds out.

    Just went to the local cafe to pick up some beans "crompton road" by 5 senses.

    I noticed that when I had a latte at the cafe it was very bright and floral. However when the lattes I have managed to produce have been more understated, less floral, dense mouth feel, lingering cocoa/ chocolate like finish. No complaints here, I actually prefer the heavier mouthfeel. Now I'm no expert but any ideas on why there flavour characteristics are so different from cafe to home? I'm assuming its a combination of grind and water temp.

  11. #11
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Do you know what grinder they have at the café?

    Are the roast dates the same?

    Congrats on the new toy! :-D

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    They use a Robur e. use a Synesso cyncra. We practically made coffee from the same batch, as he opened up a 1kg bag to give me 500grams. So same roast date 04/12/13. This is all so interesting!

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    TC
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    Hello cc,

    In all likelihood if it's typical 5 senses, they'd be pulling shots 2-4 deg cooler than you are with your Rocket. The chemistry you have noted is what I'd expect.

    Cheers

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Hello cc,

    In all likelihood if it's typical 5 senses, they'd be pulling shots 2-4 deg cooler than you are with your Rocket. The chemistry you have noted is what I'd expect.
    Hi Chris you were spot on. I made sure to pull a good flush and the shot was heaps lighter and more floral.

    Just under 1 week with the Kony is all I can say is wow. I have managed to pull some great shots. Not as consistent as I would like but I guess that comes with familiarity and more use with the grinder.

    Things I have noticed are
    1: definitely more wastage, from day to day use and for dialing in. I guess that's what you would expect for using a commercial grinder for home use.
    2.The grinder can be a little unforgiving at times. It possibly be me but I find that I'm always tweaking the grind, probably every second day to ensure a good pour.
    3: I find the grinder to relatively quiet and faster (when compared to my smart grinder)

    I guess now, I have to find a routine that works and hopefully set up the timer out of convenience.

    btw Chris - Out of curiosity what is your kony timer set at and approximately how much is it dosing.

    cheers

    Shayne

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    TC
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffeechaos View Post
    Hi Chris you were spot on.
    Thanks Shayne. Many would have me believe otherwise

    btw Chris - Out of curiosity what is your kony timer set at and approximately how much is it dosing.

    cheers

    Shayne
    Time? Currently circa 8 sec but I am using a naked/precision triple combo.

    Mass? No Idea I'm afraid. Scales are for baking at my place...

    I dose appropriately for my baskets, my machine and most importantly my palate. I leave the Science for the Scientists who wholly reject art .

    Enjoy the Kony. I reckon they're awesome!

    Chris
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  16. #16
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    from my experience,
    the SG can't grind fine enough if you are using the vst basket



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