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Thread: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home use

  1. #1
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    Grinder Options - Too many choices

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    tempest you mentioned in the Macap M5 thread that you realised it was a further step up from the Sunbeam > Iberital > Rocky; I have the M5 and one of the reasons I bought is is so that Ill never need to buy another grinder.

    $$ are a bit more though but in the long run may be worth it.

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    Re: Sunbeam EM0480, Review


    Hey Thundergod,

    I had nearly settled on the Macap MC4 as I wanted a device that is doserless, and the M5 didnt really fit the bill for me as it has a doser, and I dont need/want a doser unit.

    Then I read up on the redesigned Compak T3 and it seems to be the best of the lot - comparable to the highly lauded Mazzer Micro, but lots cheaper and none of the attendant issues (mainly messy delivery system) with the other doserless products like Iberital Express or Rancilio Rocky.

    So I had my heart set on the Compak T3, but now I find that its only available in champagne colour in Australia. Thats deal breaker, coz my kitchen has a stainless steel or silver theme only. :-/

    Maybe its time to have another look at the Macap range. :P




  3. #3
    TC
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    Re: Sunbeam EM0480, Review

    Just a thought Lawrence...Many coffee companies get their grinder bodies powdercoated- which the Compak already is..I wonder is a CSer can shed some light on whether its economically possible?

    From my point of view, having had the opportunity to have a variety of grinders, I find I have the best consistency freedosing with a doser grinder and every time I try a doserless, I end up with a doser again. The only compromise is a regular brush out. I do however keep a Rocky (doserless) for plungers, cupping and variety from what might be in the everyday grinder.

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    Re: Sunbeam EM0480, Review

    Why not a doser?

    I dose through the chamber as I grind.
    That means grind only enough for my current need (usually one double shot).
    The dosing action helps break up any clumping and the dosing chamber keeps the mess contained.

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    Re: Sunbeam EM0480, Review

    Lawrence,

    A quality grinder is certainly invaluable in making great coffee..... but at the rate you are going up in models..... you will soon be looking at a Mazzer robur.... a VERY fine grinder (about the best you can get) ;) ;D

    Re doser Vs doserless..... there is a lot of debate on this issue.

    I prefer a doser model and I dose through the doser ( a technique taught to me at the professional machine coffee course)...

    You grind the beans as you need them.... and operate the doser at the same time. The doser stirs up the grinds as it rotates - breaking up any lumps - and drops them into the PF.... it is supposed to give more even and uniform distribution into the basket. You dont leave any grinds in the doser using that technique....

    And when I do a large number of coffees - all at the same time - I use the doser as intended.

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    Re: Sunbeam EM0480, Review

    Why not a doser?

    I am quite new to the coffee world and have simply been absorbing peoples opinions in this forum and taking their word for it at full face value.

    My need is for a grinder that will be used at home, and to make maybe two cups of coffee every morning. *I may make more coffee if Im entertaining people on the weekends, so the usage model is no where near the volumes that a commercial cafe would go through.

    From what Ive read on this forum, doserless would be the way to go for people like me because there is much less wastage. *With a doser system, Id basically be grinding more coffee than I need, simply to fill the doser, and then itll be stale and Id have to dispose of the stale grind.

    Hence Ive steered myself down the path of doserless.


    :P

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    Re: Sunbeam EM0480, Review

    Quote Originally Posted by tempestv8 link=1138058473/240#243 date=1176295083
    Why not a doser?


    From what Ive read on this forum, doserless would be the way to go for people like me because there is much less wastage. With a doser system, Id basically be grinding more coffee than I need, simply to fill the doser, and then itll be stale and Id have to dispose of the stale grind.

    Hence Ive steered myself down the path of doserless.
    :P
    Lawrence,

    You dont use any more coffee (waste any) using a doser or a doserless because using the dose through technique no grinds remain in the doser.... So no stale grinds, no waste, the clumps are broken up and less scattered grinds than with a doserless.....

    IMHO a doser version has some advantages - and no disadvantages (other than costing slightly more)....

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    Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home use

    OK, I have to start a new thread, so you guys and gals can help me make up my mind what I should go for.

    Ive been looking at various grinders, and some are doser and others are doserless.

    Heres my requirements - I need a premium grinder to get the best possible results out of my Sunbeam EM6910 machine. *Basically Im prepared to pay reasonable dollars for a good machine that will last me a long time, and one where I dont need to upgrade in the next few years.

    My main areas of concern are:

    1. *No internal plastic bits in the grinding mechanism which could lead to movement of the grinding burrs, causing grinding inconsistencies (e.g. SunBeam EM0480 inconsistencies)

    2. *Need to be able to grind for espresso, i.e. very fine

    3. *Need to dispense the coffee grind cleanly and not get easily blocked

    4. *As little wastage as possible of trapped grinds/beans

    5. *As small a hopper as possible (so beans are kept fresh)

    6. *Near as possible to stepless adjustment, or very fine increments

    7. *Little or no static problems with fine ground, e.g. clumping

    8. *Not more than AUD$700 or thereabouts

    9. *As little mess as possible



    Is this a very tall order? *I hope not. * ::)

    Im keen to know if there is a doser or doserless model that meets this requirement. * :D






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    Re: Doser vs doserless grinders

    Lawrence,

    You dont have to fill the doser.

    And I re-read your list so will also say to point 5 - you dont have to fill the hopper.

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    TC
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    Re: Doser vs doserless grinders

    Quote Originally Posted by tempestv8 link=1176295666/0#0 date=1176295666
    OK, I have to start a new thread, so you guys and gals can help me make up my mind what I should go for.

    Ive been looking at various grinders, and some are doser and others are doserless.

    Heres my requirements - I need a premium grinder to get the best possible results out of my Sunbeam EM6910 machine. *Basically Im prepared to pay reasonable dollars for a good machine that will last me a long time, and one where I dont need to upgrade in the next few years.

    My main areas of concern are:

    1. *No internal plastic bits in the grinding mechanism which could lead to movement of the grinding burrs, causing grinding inconsistencies (e.g. SunBeam EM0480 inconsistencies)

    2. *Need to be able to grind for espresso, i.e. very fine

    3. *Need to dispense the coffee grind cleanly and not get easily blocked

    4. *As little wastage as possible of trapped grinds/beans

    5. *As small a hopper as possible (so beans are kept fresh)

    6. *Near as possible to stepless adjustment, or very fine increments

    7. *Little or no static problems with fine ground, e.g. clumping

    8. *Not more than AUD$700 or thereabouts

    9. *As little mess as possible



    Is this a very tall order? *I hope not. * ::)

    Im keen to know if there is a doser or doserless model that meets this requirement. * :D
    My suggestions in order of preference:
    Mazzer Robur/Compak K10WBC... $2k and more :o...now, being realistic...

    Mazzer mini-manual or Macap M5- both RRP circa $700 and terrific (everyone wants one *8-)) Mazzer extremely difficult to find but I actually think that the Macap micrometric has the edge over the Mazzer now....
    Compak K3 Elite ($630)
    ECM Best ($800) -good but you pay big time for bling and a small footprint/ Macap MC4 ($700 ish)
    Then: Compak K3 Touch ($569)
    Rancilio Rocky doserless ($450 ish)
    Iberital Challenge doserless (circa $300)

    I am still personally irritated by doserless. Please feel free to call and Ill run you through pros and cons as I see them and remember, EVERY grinder/machine is a set of compromises...Choose the set that best suits you...

    2mcm

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    Re: Doser vs doserless grinders

    Thanks for the clarification, guys!

    I had originally discounted the doser models because I had assumed that the doser mechanism needs to have a reasonable amount of grind in it to work properly, and if I was only grinding enough for a double, it wouldnt empty properly.

    So now the threads title should really be - "which is the best possible home grinder, not doser vs doserless" as thats an entirely different discussion altogether.

    I have changed the title of the thread so that it matches what Im asking (was previously titled doser vs doserless)

    Thanks to the mods for grafting this conversation away from the EM0480 thread and tacking it onto this thread. *Much easier for others to follow the discussion. Three cheers to the mods! :)


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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Gday Chris,

    I tried ringing you on the batphone yesterday and also on the office phone but they both when to voicemail, so Ill try again perhaps today when I get a chance.

    I notice with some interest that on a different thread you mentioned in passing about "a doserless ECM best (strictly confidential of course)" that is imminent. So Ill just not mention it on any public forums, as mums the word! ;D

    This morning, I made a cuppa for the missus with grind that I bought a couple of days ago. SWMBO said that it didnt taste as good as the first time I made it. Hehe, that was my opening line to suggest that we *MUST* have a grinder to get the best tasting coffee possible.

    If I can get the finance minister to agree, Im sure there will be a nice grinder on my benchtop before long! :D







  13. #13
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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Apols Lawrance- I must have been with clients- it was a pretty busy day....Leave a message and Ill return your call ;-)

    Chris

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    its been a while since i have posted... works been too busy. but i digress....

    i went from an em0480 to a mazzer mini doser. the doserless gave too much mess, even with a cup to catch the stray grinds, and when making more than 1 coffee, it ended up taking way to long...

    so dont discount the doser... i only grind what i need, have managed to have it down pat to start the grinder, go to the fridge, get the milk then off goes the grinder. the perfect amount for a double....

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Thanks Krusty.

    Im now thinking that its probably best to gow ith a top of the line grinder to get the best possible coffee. That means mega $$$, but probably worth it long run.

    I found a good review on the Mazzer vs the Macap here:

    http://www.home-barista.com/feature-spotlight-grinders.html


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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Lawrence...

    On that review site..... they rate the Mazzer and the Macap on par with my La Cimbali Jnr.... and I believe that to be true....

    and Im very, very happy with the La Cimbali.

  17. #17
    Flo
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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Hi Lawrence.

    I stepped up from a DeLonghi KG100 (rebadged Solis 166) to a Mazzer Mini. There is no comparison between these two. Chalk and cheese. From what Ive read about the Macaps et al, there are some excellent grinders suitable for home use which are not Mazzers. You are spoiled for choice. I think with any of the higher end domestic grinders (Macap, Mazzer, Compak etc) you are getting quality motors, burrs and dosing mechs.

    I love my Mini. It performs well and looks great. But like 2mcm said..each grinder has its own quirks. So, its a matter of deciding on which quirks/compromises you can live with and go with that. In terms of grind quality I understand that they are all pretty much on par with each other.

    Re: Doser vs Doserless; Its nice to have the option of using the doser when the coffee demand rate increases. Normally though, I load the grinder with just enough beans for the shot(s) Im doing at the time. As for grinds left in the doser...well its probably less than a gram. Some dosers sweep cleaner than others too.

    If your budget can stretch to accomodate one of the aforementioned grinders, then youll not need to worry about replacing your grinder for many a year! Maybe a new set of burrs every few years (depending on how much coffee you put through your grinder of course!) but thats about it.

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    For $700 you can get a Mazzer Mini or even a Compak K3 Elite or K3 Touch. No need to ever upgrade unless you want more speed!

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    i would recommend trying to have a look/play with the grinders.... i thought i wanted a K3 elite, but then had a play. the doser is good, but the built in tamp is really low, and the fork to hold the portafilter really high, which makes viewing the coffee go into the basket really hard. (unless you crouch down, so your eyes are inline with the bottom of the doser....)

    so based on that, i went with the mazzer!

    thats just my opinion, but really try to have a play. opinions on sites will give you the technical details, but the person who will tell you if you will like it or not is only you.....

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Nice posting here guys, My relationship with my EM0480 and its "giant steps" is fast becomming untenable so Im in a similar boat, I too thought doserless would be the way to go but your pro-doser comments make sense.

    a question or two regarding grinding only the beans you will use with a dosing grinder.

    How do you guys establish how much beans to put into the hopper [eg weighing or volume]?


    Regarding asthetics and colour, I have personally seen the "champage" K3 and it looks great. My kitchen has a mixture of chrome, SS and a champagneish coloured things [em0480 & slicer] and I think they all kinda go together......see below.

    Powdercoating can be quite cheap especially if the colour selected is part of a "run".....hazarding a guess I would say less than $40 bucks for the body of the grinder, but see one in person before you even consider that.



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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Always....always fill the hopper up...dont just put in 20 grams or so of beans that you intended to grind up for a double. The added weight of the beans on top helps mitigate the popcorn effect which totally screws up your grind.

    The just take the hopper off and empty it back in to your vac bag...fish out any beans you may want from the collar of the grinder. Takes and extra minute to do, but makes much more sense.

    Because I do this, I usually keep the dosing chamber lid off my Mazzer so I can see how much has been ground up. I can visually tell how much Ive ground within a certain tolerance. And even then, its not too hard to start the grinder back up if you dont have enough.

    My 2 cents.

  22. #22
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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    My

    I can tell by eye how many beans are enough for my double shot.

    I dont worry too much about the popcorn effect.
    I do shut the hopper gate though to stop the beans bouncing too high. *;D

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    My point is, is that having extra beans in the hopper stops the popcorn effect all together.

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Hmmm,

    Never been a problem with my Rocky :-?

    Mal.

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1176295666/15#22 date=1176452455
    My point is, is that having extra beans in the hopper stops the popcorn effect all together.
    They can try and escape all they like but my Macap grinds them all in the end.

  26. #26
    Flo
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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1176295666/15#22 date=1176452455
    My point is, is that having extra beans in the hopper stops the popcorn effect all together.
    I dont have a problem with it either...if I want the hopper off I just rest my tamper in the throat of the Mini and the beans stay put. But like TG says...the mini gets em all in the end!!

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Yes...whilst I understand you can pop your tamper in the throat of your Mazzer...they will still be flying around inside the collar.

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Give up Wushoes. ;D
    We understand why you do it your way and whilst I concede that from the design viewpoint *your way is correct, Im not that fussy (yet).

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    ok ok...:P

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home


    Just to update you all on this thread, Ive been "told" by my dear wife (whos usually wiser than me) that we absolutely positively CANNOT have a Mazzer or Macap, as they are simply too big for our kitchen. Looking at the amount of space in the kitchen, shes right. :-[

    So Ive now limited my search to smaller grinders.

    Hello Rocky! :D Now the question is whether the Rocky doser is a good doser or not.

    Id imagine that not all doser units are built equal. Some "sweep" better than others, with less wastage.

    What is the Rockys doser like? Does it waste more coffee than other dosers, e.g. comparing it to Mazzers doser.

    My biggest concern is mess on the countertop but I dont want to waste huge amounts of coffee to be a neatnik.

    Can anyone help me understand the Rockys doser? Im not considering other doser grinders except for the Rocky.

    Thanks in advance, as per always. :)


  31. #31
    TC
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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Quote Originally Posted by tempestv8 link=1176295666/15#29 date=1176725568
    Just to update you all on this thread, Ive been "told" by my dear wife (whos usually wiser than me) that we absolutely positively CANNOT have a Mazzer or Macap, as they are simply too big for our kitchen. *Looking at the amount of space in the kitchen, shes right. * :-[

    So Ive now limited my search to smaller grinders.

    Hello Rocky! * :D *Now the question is whether the Rocky doser is a good doser or not.

    Id imagine that not all doser units are built equal. *Some "sweep" better than others, with less wastage.

    What is the Rockys doser like? *Does it waste more coffee than other dosers, e.g. comparing it to Mazzers doser.

    My biggest concern is mess on the countertop but I dont want to waste huge amounts of coffee to be a neatnik.

    Can anyone help me understand the Rockys doser? *Im not considering other doser grinders except for the Rocky.

    Thanks in advance, as per always. * :)
    The Rocky doser leaves a bit to be desired in my opinion....

    An alternative with a small footprint is the ECM Best grinder- clean sweeping doser which is adjustable for drop. Great quality and performance but pricey....

    2mcm

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Quote Originally Posted by tempestv8 link=1176295666/15#29 date=1176725568

    Hello Rocky! :D Now the question is whether the Rocky doser is a good doser or not.

    Id imagine that not all doser units are built equal. Some "sweep" better than others, with less wastage.

    What is the Rockys doser like? Does it waste more coffee than other dosers, e.g. comparing it to Mazzers doser.
    tempestv8

    The rocky doser isnt very good at sweeping cleanly.... but if you do a search on the internet you will find lots of articles re modding it for a better (cleaner) sweep - from memory some just require you to extend the vanes down with tape....

    None of the smaller machines (other than the ECM Best suggested above) work quite as well as the bigger units..... doser or doserless.... so you are between a rock and a hard place.. :( :(

  33. #33
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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Thats "Rocky" and a hard place.


    I suggest you move to a new place with a bigger kitchen.
    Women love big kitchens.
    Then youll have room for the Macap.

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1176295666/30#32 date=1176733407
    Thats "Rocky" and a hard place.
    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

    I suggest you move to a new place with a bigger kitchen.
    Women love big kitchens.
    Then youll have room for the Macap.
    Now thats what I call a totally logical (and supportable) argument ;)

  35. #35
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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    You know my profession is process improvement.
    If I see a problem Im bound to make suggestions for a better way to do things.
    My suggestion was, as you said, logical, and a win/win.

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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Thundergod,

    Thanksfor the tip. *However, moving to a bigger place to support the purchase of a Mazzer or Macap will only be possible if that place happens to be a busy cafe in a noisy inner suburb. :P

    I couldnt win the argument that buying a commercial grinder for home use would mean never having to upgrade.

    So at this point in time, I cant convince the power broker at home that I really need a giant sized grinder towering over everything. *I do agree with her - the Mazzer will look like a monster next to the Sunbeam EM6910. *;D

    You guys must have very very understanding partners.

    And large kitchens!! :o :D


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    Re: Suggestions for best espresso grinder for home

    Just to close out on this thread, I wish to thank all who have helped me to come to the decision of buying a grinder. I cannt thank you enough, especially to Chris from Talk Coffee, who rang me and spoke at length about it on a weekend. Top bloke. :) :)

    I managed to buy a 2nd hand Rocky in near mint condition, and at a great price so I couldnt turn it down. Chris, if I hadnt found a used one, I would have bought one off you, simply due to you taking the effort and time to have a chat with me.

    As noted previously, the doser doesnt dose very well, but nothing that I cant fix, given the information available on the internet.








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