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Thread: 2nd grinder

  1. #1
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    2nd grinder

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi,
    I have a Mazzer Super Jolly grinder I use with my Rocket r58 - I want a second grinder to use for staler beans so I dont have to keep readjusting the Super Jolly (yes I know that is lazy).
    Not fussed on price - but want something compact.
    Any suggestions?
    Thanks

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    Budget?? How much were you thinking to spend, helps our suggestions. Is it just for stale beans only?

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    Mainly stale beans, no budget (lots of money to spend). The only thing I want is something not as big as the super Jolly.

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    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Macap M2M or M4D?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faatshank View Post
    Mainly stale beans, no budget (lots of money to spend). The only thing I want is something not as big as the super Jolly.
    Question, .... If money is no issue, why are you bothering with stale beans ?
    Presumably, since the beans are stale anyway, the quality of the grind is not too important either,
    Mazzer mini ?.......but I really do not understand this situation. ,!
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    I should clarify - when I say stale beans I probably dont mean stale beans. I am referring to beans that are over a 1.5 weeks old and I need to adjust my grinder to a finer setting to extract the same amount of crema had the beans been under 1 week old. So not really stale, but in decline..... Does this make sense?

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    I like the look of the M4D - thansk for the tip.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Luke_G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faatshank View Post
    I should clarify - when I say stale beans I probably dont mean stale beans. I am referring to beans that are over a 1.5 weeks old and I need to adjust my grinder to a finer setting to extract the same amount of crema had the beans been under 1 week old. So not really stale, but in decline..... Does this make sense?
    Im going to hazard a guess and say that you have not been at the espresso game for long.

    Why spend $200-$2000 on a grinder to use on "stale" coffee when you could just let all your coffee go stale and just leave your current grinder on the same old setting?
    I can understand wanting a second grinder to use with a different coffee but if it is just to prevent having to change the grind to suit a different aged coffee, maybe your money would be better spent on a barista course of some sort as what you plan on doing would be counterproductive to making quality espresso.

    EDIT: How much coffee are you buying at any one time?

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    Why not just adjust the super jolly grind?

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    If you have no objections to a hand grinder then the HG1 may be worth considering.

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    Luke - you guess wrong. I have in fact been in the espresso game for many years and from my experience it is not uncommon for the enthusiast to have 2 grinders. Perhaps I am missing something but I don't see the problem in having 2 grinders simply from a convenience perspective. One grinder (super jolly) for the fresh coffee which I roast myself and a second grinder for the not so fresh beans (or like you pointed out, perhaps for a completely different bean). As I pointed out in my original post this was purely for convenience purposes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_G View Post
    Im going to hazard a guess and say that you have not been at the espresso game for long.

    Why spend $200-$2000 on a grinder to use on "stale" coffee when you could just let all your coffee go stale and just leave your current grinder on the same old setting?
    I can understand wanting a second grinder to use with a different coffee but if it is just to prevent having to change the grind to suit a different aged coffee, maybe your money would be better spent on a barista course of some sort as what you plan on doing would be counterproductive to making quality espresso.

    EDIT: How much coffee are you buying at any one time?
    I don't see how it could be counterproductive to making quality espresso. I would assume he has more than one coffee and wants an easy way to have a grinder close to being dialed in for some of his older coffee, while still maintaining the other grinder dialed in for his fresher coffee.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faatshank View Post
    Luke - you guess wrong. I have in fact been in the espresso game for many years and from my experience it is not uncommon for the enthusiast to have 2 grinders. Perhaps I am missing something but I don't see the problem in having 2 grinders simply from a convenience perspective. One grinder (super jolly) for the fresh coffee which I roast myself and a second grinder for the not so fresh beans (or like you pointed out, perhaps for a completely different bean). As I pointed out in my original post this was purely for convenience purposes.
    Beans need to be dialled in each and every day (with adjustments often required throughout the day) so unless you plan on buying 30 or so grinders you're still going to have to adjust the grind collar at some point so (to quote Nike) Just Do It mate and forget this bizarre, if not ridiculous, quest for a not-so-fresh-beans grinder. If you truly have that much money to throw around I'm pretty sure you could find something better to do with it!
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    Thankyou Senior Members for your constructive and helpful feedback - not sure my post warranted terms like 'Bizarre' and 'Ridiculous' or even the suggestion that I should take some sort of beginners course. But them the breaks. Thanks to all those who made meaningful suggestions in response to my original post.

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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faatshank View Post
    Thankyou Senior Members for your constructive and helpful feedback - not sure my post warranted terms like 'Bizarre' and 'Ridiculous' or even the suggestion that I should take some sort of beginners course. But them the breaks. Thanks to all those who made meaningful suggestions in response to my original post.
    And I thought the suggestion to use your hand and wrist to adjust the grind collar every once in a while, thereby saving yourself a pocketful of cash, was meaningful :-P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faatshank View Post
    Thankyou Senior Members for your constructive and helpful feedback - not sure my post warranted terms like 'Bizarre' and 'Ridiculous' or even the suggestion that I should take some sort of beginners course. But them the breaks. Thanks to all those who made meaningful suggestions in response to my original post.
    Yes you hit the nail on the head. There are some on this site that can't help but be rude. 30 grinders indeed!

  17. #17
    Senior Member Luke_G's Avatar
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    Sorry if i offended you Faatshank. Without all the facts and details, one only make an uneducated guess as to what your though process/skill level/intentions were

    If i could make a suggestion though...
    Why not buy smaller amounts of fresher coffee, more often and prevent ever having to deal with "stale" coffee?

    I too have multiple grinders and maybe it is just because i can but i take home 200-300g of coffee at the start and the end of the week. It is only ever 7 days post roast at any point in time at the worst.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Yeh, I think the confusion (or hubris) started with Post #1 referring to a desire to grind staler beans....which was later clarified.

    I get the idea.....I have 2 grinders on the bench (k3 and M2M)....one for my regular flat whites / espressos, the other for Decaf or Aeropress. Means I can leave the house with them dialled in and not come back to discover that SWMBO has 'adjusted' them to make them better for tomorrow.
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    For the record, not everybody who read post #1 made the assumption that "staler" meant "supermarket beans close to their 2-year use-by date". jenk017 with three posts to his credit - welcome jenko - easily saw the point, but I guess he wasn't desperate to make a point of his own.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recaffinated View Post
    Yes you hit the nail on the head. There are some on this site that can't help but be rude. 30 grinders indeed!
    In this particular case, I would have to agree wholeheartedly with Vinitasse; Even if you dial in your grind for one bag of fresh beans, it's going to be suboptimal within a day or two and there's no guarantee that the next fresh bag will require the same grind as the first fresh bag did.

    It's not a matter of taking a crack at someone who's happy to throw money at a (for most people) non-issue to make it go away, it's that you can't solve the problem he's trying to avoid.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    ...it's that you can't solve the problem he's trying to avoid.
    Exactly!!!!

  22. #22
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    It's a non-solution to a non-problem

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    To answer your questions specifically:
    If you don't really mind the money, then get a Baratza Vario. Smaller than the SJ, has auto grinding function, and has very easy an intuitive grind adjustment. Much easier to make larger adjustments - from say filter back to espresso even - and less grind retention than the SJ.

    To give a suggestion as to what I think you should do:
    Keep SJ and get a smaller hopper, or sell and replace with Vario for older coffee. Then spend your money on an upgrade for your fresher beans. Eg Kony or other conical, or super consistent shop grinder if you're inclined in that direction. With an R58, you weak link at the moment is your grinder and you'll get way more bang for your buck going to something better than the SJ.

    My judgement of the situation:
    High quality and carefully roasted - and usually lighter espresso roasted - coffee is best post 2 weeks. Maybe try leaving all your coffee until 1.5 weeks and start drinking then!

  24. #24
    TOK
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    Thinking laterally gents:

    a) You cant NOT adjust your grinder as the coffee develops through its cycle and ages.

    However, my take on this is:
    b) Super jolly = the usual notchy stepless adjuster that can for some people, be a bit of a pain to manage in an easy "positive" manner (ie go to and from a certain setting quickly and easily and know exactly where you were, where you are going to....and back again). It can put some clients off.

    Possible Solution:
    Equivalent stepped grinders offer a much more "positive" experience and the noperator knows exactly where they are, where they were, and how to get back there....if that is what they want.

    I would therefore recommend buying something like a Macap grinder in whatever size is desired (noting the "MX" model is the direct eqiuvalent of the super happy grinder). Otherwsie, any of the grinders in the Macap range, small to large, will do the job with a good positive action stepped adjuster with nice small steps.

    This could solve the problem for you by simply making the method of adjustment easier for you to manage, and you could even consider just selling the other altogether UNLESS of course you decided that you just wanna have 2 grinders because you just do...

    So really I see this as a grind management issue, which can be solved by changing to a more suitable (for you) grinder.

    Hopethat helps.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    In this particular case, I would have to agree wholeheartedly with Vinitasse; Even if you dial in your grind for one bag of fresh beans, it's going to be suboptimal within a day or two and there's no guarantee that the next fresh bag will require the same grind as the first fresh bag did.

    It's not a matter of taking a crack at someone who's happy to throw money at a (for most people) non-issue to make it go away, it's that you can't solve the problem he's trying to avoid.
    But, as the OP has clarified. He is not talking about adjusting the grind for a given bag of coffee as it ages (which is clearly non-negotiable). He has 2 bags on the go at the same time, one distinctly fresher than the other. So, I get why he might like the idea of 2 grinders (or an appropriate stepped grinder as per TOK above).
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  26. #26
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    But, as the OP has clarified. He is not talking about adjusting the grind for a given bag of coffee as it ages (which is clearly non-negotiable). He has 2 bags on the go at the same time, one distinctly fresher than the other. So, I get why he might like the idea of 2 grinders (or an appropriate stepped grinder as per TOK above).
    Ah, fair enough; not sure why that didn't twig from the previous comments.

    HG One would be the obvious choice as mcoccia suggested - stepped/marked and zero retention. But then I am a little biased :P

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    Thanks for all the responses - appreciate everyone's input and I think we got to the right answer. Thanks
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  28. #28
    TOK
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    Suspense suspence....

    And the correct answer is ?

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    Sorry for the late response. Decided to go with the Macap M4D. It seems to have it all the features including stepless grind and a reasonable footprint. Thanks again for all the posts, it was a robust discussion.

  30. #30
    TOK
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    Excellent choice but for the most "positive" management of the adjuster (ie for individuals for whom it is very important to know where they are, where they are going to, and how to get back to exactly the same place etc etc etc), you will be better served with the STEPPED version over the micrometric one.

    Regardless, you have made an excellent choice and I hope it is a great help.

  31. #31
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    2 very nice grinders lucky man! This had been an interesting thread

  32. #32
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    2nd grinder

    I can't find much sense in the 1st post , you've clearly stated your top of the line equipment , then went on to say you have heaps of money . What advice do you need ? Go down to the shop and buy the best grinder that costs the most and is compact like you wanted . I also find some single origins flavour really only develops at the 10-14 day mark and always get crema from beans around this age



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