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Thread: Sunbeam Percision vs Breville Smart Grinder

  1. #1
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    Sunbeam Percision vs Breville Smart Grinder

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi just out of interest for a friend, what's the difference between the Breville smart grinder and the Sunbeam Percision EM0700??
    Which one is better??

    Thanks everyone

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    The sunbeam "precision" is very much less precise than the breville smart grinder.

    I haven't used the sunbeam, but had a look the other day in DJs. It uses exactly the same burrs as the $99 version, but it's belt driven which doesn't provide any quality improvements, only less retention.

    Biggest issue for me was that the burr carrier has HEAPS of play in it. That means the burrs will move around during grinding WAY more than the breville's will, producing a much less consistent grind size.

    I wouldn't touch it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bames View Post
    The sunbeam "precision" is very much less precise than the breville smart grinder.

    I haven't used the sunbeam, but had a look the other day in DJs. It uses exactly the same burrs as the $99 version, but it's belt driven which doesn't provide any quality improvements, only less retention.

    Biggest issue for me was that the burr carrier has HEAPS of play in it. That means the burrs will move around during grinding WAY more than the breville's will, producing a much less consistent grind size.

    I wouldn't touch it.
    Well I did touch it and it is far better that the 480 that I have as well. The grind is far more precise and is far quieter to boot. I have matched the EM7000 with it as I upgraded from the 6910. Far less retained in the grinder as well. I have used both of the Grinders and would say the 700 is every bit as good as the smart grinder with out all the electronic bits to go wrong.
    To state "I wouldn't touch it" without any knowledge of the machine apart from a look at DJ's is very short sited indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fard View Post
    To state "I wouldn't touch it" without any knowledge of the machine apart from a look at DJ's is very short sited indeed.
    No it's not, and like I said I didn't just look, I got my hands on to the most important part of the grinder - the stability of the burrs.

    There's a reason why big boy grinders like the Mazzers, Macaps, Compaks, Dittings, Mahlkonigs etc have rock solid burr carriers encased in super thick and heavy metal - to keep the burrs super stable when grinding to produce an even grind size.
    There's also a reason why there were multiple threads dedicated to fixing burr wobble in the Rocky - to keep the burrs stable to produce an even grind size.

    I haven't used the EM0700 myself admittedly, but i have owned the EM0480, Smart Grinder, 2 Super Jollys, NS MDX and Ditting KR804. I'm no noob when it comes to grinders thanks very much.

    You say "The grind is more precise" than the 480. How have you tested this? Do you have a particle analyzer and have run samples from both through it, or are you just rubbing your fingers together with grinds between them and using your spider-senses?

    The only grind quality improvement that you get from the 700 would be very slightly reduced heat on the grinds because the motor is a little bit further away. However the majority of the heat onto coffee grinds comes from friction, not conduction from the motor - especially in these little guys. Commercial grinders that are on all the time do warm up a bit in busy periods, but not these little guys.

    I did a very simple, but definitive and repeatable test - "What burrs is it using and how stable are the burr carriers." The burrs are the same as the 480 and the burr carriers are not as stable as the Smart Grinder's. Any grinder with the amount of play in the burrs that the EM0700 had would not produce as consistent a grind as one with more stable burrs like the Smart Grinder- it's that's simple.

    Again, for the same money as the Smart Grinder I wouldn't touch it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bames View Post
    No it's not, and like I said I didn't just look, I got my hands on to the most important part of the grinder - the stability of the burrs.

    There's a reason why big boy grinders like the Mazzers, Macaps, Compaks, Dittings, Mahlkonigs etc have rock solid burr carriers encased in super thick and heavy metal - to keep the burrs super stable when grinding to produce an even grind size.
    There's also a reason why there were multiple threads dedicated to fixing burr wobble in the Rocky - to keep the burrs stable to produce an even grind size.

    I haven't used the EM0700 myself admittedly, but i have owned the EM0480, Smart Grinder, 2 Super Jollys, NS MDX and Ditting KR804. I'm no noob when it comes to grinders thanks very much.

    You say "The grind is more precise" than the 480. How have you tested this? Do you have a particle analyzer and have run samples from both through it, or are you just rubbing your fingers together with grinds between them and using your spider-senses?

    The only grind quality improvement that you get from the 700 would be very slightly reduced heat on the grinds because the motor is a little bit further away. However the majority of the heat onto coffee grinds comes from friction, not conduction from the motor - especially in these little guys. Commercial grinders that are on all the time do warm up a bit in busy periods, but not these little guys.

    I did a very simple, but definitive and repeatable test - "What burrs is it using and how stable are the burr carriers." The burrs are the same as the 480 and the burr carriers are not as stable as the Smart Grinder's. Any grinder with the amount of play in the burrs that the EM0700 had would not produce as consistent a grind as one with more stable burrs like the Smart Grinder- it's that's simple.

    Again, for the same money as the Smart Grinder I wouldn't touch it.
    Now your been a smart arse.
    You can't compare the smart or the 0700 with the other grinders you have named. You almost got it right with regard the heat into the beans coming from the friction. But because you only had a passing look at this machine in DJ's you wouldn't realize that due to the belt drive the grinder works far slower reducing the heat imparted into the bean while grinding. So there is one very big difference you have over looked as been such an expert in grinders.

    Sometimes the old saying of saying rings true "Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt" Abraham Lincoln.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fard View Post
    Now your been a smart arse.
    You can't compare the smart or the 0700 with the other grinders you have named. You almost got it right with regard the heat into the beans coming from the friction. But because you only had a passing look at this machine in DJ's you wouldn't realize that due to the belt drive the grinder works far slower reducing the heat imparted into the bean while grinding. So there is one very big difference you have over looked as been such an expert in grinders.

    Sometimes the old saying of saying rings true "Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt" Abraham Lincoln.
    No bro - if I wanted to be a smart ass I'd smack you for misusing one third of the words in that first sentence.

    I can't compare the 700 with the ones I mentioned - didn't say I had. What my list does is show I have experience with grinders. More than you do.

    I didn't overlook the heat thing, I brought it up champ. So you've obviously measured it then and have numbers to back up this less heat claim? And if you haven't, please do! Get your multimeter out and connect it to your computer. Then go buy a Smart Grinder and get your 480 and 700 out, grind some coffee, take some measurements, and display the results here. You'll then however need to get some other evidence that a particular amount of heat has a specific detrimental effect on what ends up in the cup. This may be difficult after Nuova Simonelli just brought out a grinder that actually HEATS UP ground coffee to ensure consistency.

    And like I said, if it does produce less heat, it would be minimal due to how long the grinder is most likely on, which would be not long. If you pump out 50 shots back to back (ie within 30 seconds of each other) it may make a difference, but I highly doubt you nor anyone else who buys this grinder will use it like that.

    Burr movement creating inconsistent grind size, and inconsistent grind size producing less favourable qualities in the cup is well documented - even by Sunbeam. From Sunbeam website "The Sunbeam Precision Grinder uses a belt drive and dual bearings to minimise any conical burr movement which increases grind precision and consistency." Even Sunbeam say that burr movement creates a poor grind. But that comment is obviously marketing spin based on the very simple, repeatable fact that is testable by anyone: the bottom burr carrier moves around more than the Breville. And it does.

    It's simple:
    Burr movement reduces the consistency and quality of grinds - fact
    The 700's burrs move around more than the Smart's - fact
    Therefore, the 700 'aint as good as the Smart - fact by deduction

    I get that what I'm saying here means that you've made a bad decision spending the amount of cash you did on the 700, when you could have purchased the smart which is a far superior grinder in form, function and quality of grinds. I'm not here however to argue someone trying to validate themselves. I don't really care about your validation, and I have no bias here unlike you. I'm simply helping the OP and any others here not make the same mistake you did.

    I honestly feel bad that you made a dud decision - but don't shoot the messenger, otherwise old Abe will come knocking on your door. In fact, I'm pretty sure he's been knocking for a while.

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    OP, i think you should be looking into Baratza Varios, Mazzers, and Mahlkonig in this pricing range.......

    Notice miss breville is "stepped" in which i see people saying "i wish it was stepless" and those people are the ones who pull espresso......

    And if you would just get a used Mazzer, Compak or a Eureka Zenith......

    If you find a deal in your price range for a Mazzer, Compak or Eureka thats "used".....

    Pull the trigger and get some "Grindz" which is basically a grinder cleaning tablet....

    If you find a doser, then suggest you check if the doser doses correctly using a weight scale and if not recalibrate it.....

    If the test grind is inconsistent, the burr mounts may be a problem..... or it could be burr wobble, anyways you could find a tutorial for the mounts and if you must buy some burr sets to refurb the grinder.....

    Good luck.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bames View Post
    It's simple:
    Burr movement reduces the consistency and quality of grinds - fact
    The 700's burrs move around more than the Smart's - fact
    Therefore, the 700 'aint as good as the Smart - fact by deduction
    Having cleared 17(!) mainly commercial grinders out of my shed a few months back, and tested a lot of these and many others (including 9 480's and 3 smartgrinders) all in a friend's "medical stainless steel engineering workshop/lab" with the kind of test gear that most dream of (me included!) I am also not quite a "grinder newbie". The same workshop made my design for a prototype 316 stainless (lowest grade stainless in the place) "single VST basket" tamper, complete with complex 3D tapering to make it an "exact fit". See photos, the first one is the raw tamper "pre polishing", the middle tamper is the single in the second shot...

    Your three facts are correct in themselves. Unfortunately you have completely missed the really important factor: What happens to the play when you put it under load?
    To use an accurate analogy, way back (pre '80's) we used to "static balance" car (motorbike/truck/whatever) tyres. Often the vibration would still be unbearable. Even something as basic as a buckled rim or a "wildly out of round tyre" may achieve a "perfect" static balance. Place the same "static balanced tyre & wheel" in a dynamic balancer and all types of other gremlins often make an appearance.

    Back to grinders: Under load, the first thing that happens is all "slack" (play) is taken up by the mechanism and it goes to whatever it feels is the correct working position. Oh, and ALL grinders (even auger models) have some static play or they could not rotate in the first place... After the play is taken up, you can make a meaningful call as to how and what type of aberrations still exist. Generally, the dynamic performance is almost unrelated to the static play.

    One of my own 480's was set up in the above-mentioned workshop to remove unwanted play. Ditto a smartgrinder. Both needed about the same amount of work, as they were both slightly out of round by almost the same amount. The 480 had significantly less end play, which is trivial to remove in that setup (or even at home for that matter).
    Pre configuration: neither had an outstanding particle spread, the 480 had a prominent second peak, the smartgrinder had a much wider overall spread with a lower main peak. Post configuration particle spread: Second peak virtually removed on the 480, the smartgrinder still had an excessively wide spread, even if the outliers were at a lower level (excessively: my opinion, after comparing both grinders to a number of other commercial grinders). Result: I bought another 480 for my other site. Using the same test gear, "out of the box" it was not worth adjusting it.

    Later I tested / set up as required a few grinders belonging to friends. Most SB / Brevilles were close enough to not be worth fiddling with, and all of them had the same "family characteristics": two peaks (480's) or uber-wide spread (smartgrinders). Fanatical CS'rs would be better off by sieving a 480's output to remove the extra fines rather than having to dual sieve a smartgrinder's output to remove the "boulders" as well. The 480 would also leave a lot less coffee grounds in the "out of range" sieve(s).

    FWIW, neither of them are stepless and both of them lack fine grind adjustment, however a 480 is also easy to mod into a stepless / semi stepless (see other posts on this site for detailed instructions) which may save an early upgrade for the "SB'r's" over the "Brevillistas" unless one of the latter works out how to mod a smartgrinder into a stepless.

    The 700 is a "belt drive with isolation" setup - by definition it will always have more apparent static play than direct drive models. You can even try the same thing with decent belt drive / direct drive record turntables: same concept. Difference in real world use: impossible to tell without dynamic testing. The only 700 I tested was also not worth adjusting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bames View Post

    I get that what I'm saying here means that you've made a bad decision spending the amount of cash you did on the 700, when you could have purchased the smart which is a far superior grinder in form, function and quality of grinds. I'm not here however to argue someone trying to validate themselves. I don't really care about your validation, and I have no bias here unlike you. I'm simply helping the OP and any others here not make the same mistake you did.

    I honestly feel bad that you made a dud decision - but don't shoot the messenger, otherwise old Abe will come knocking on your door. In fact, I'm pretty sure he's been knocking for a while.
    Needless to say, I disagree with your conclusions on the grounds that static play is close to irrelevant when comparing grinders anyway. Shooting messengers is just a waste of time, especially if the message is wrong...

    Call me old fashioned, but unless electronics are actually needed, I will always pick a mechanical design in any gear (including my old "all mechanical" Kenwood Chef from the 70's). Easier to work on, all things being equal (checking the sky for flying pigs).

    Anyway, I hope this gets the thread back on track...

    TampIt

    PS: A plea to CS flamers: please consider paying attention to basic grammar before hitting "submit". The level of toxicity is bad enough on some CS posts without adding illiteracy to the mix.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayTCoffeePro View Post
    OP, i think you should be looking into Baratza Varios, Mazzers, and Mahlkonig in this pricing range.......

    Notice miss breville is "stepped" in which i see people saying "i wish it was stepless" and those people are the ones who pull espresso......

    And if you would just get a used Mazzer, Compak or a Eureka Zenith......

    If you find a deal in your price range for a Mazzer, Compak or Eureka thats "used".....

    Pull the trigger and get some "Grindz" which is basically a grinder cleaning tablet....

    If you find a doser, then suggest you check if the doser doses correctly using a weight scale and if not recalibrate it.....

    If the test grind is inconsistent, the burr mounts may be a problem..... or it could be burr wobble, anyways you could find a tutorial for the mounts and if you must buy some burr sets to refurb the grinder.....

    Good luck.....

    Hi RayT

    Price range: 480 / smartgrinders are around $200 new, a new Mahlkonig Vario is $700 odd. No way is it a similar budget! Swiss manufacturing costs & precision vs China... (Vario are Swiss Ditting, which amalgamated with Mahlkonig Germany a while back).

    I bought a Mahlkonig Vario gen2 a few months back, soon followed by a second one for testing & tinkering. FYI, the Baratza is a Mahlkonig parallel import, as Mahlkonig market them here and EU etc. Baratza is a USA (only?) rebadge. Warranty implications alone would suggest buying the Mahlkonig in Oz... I had lived with a Mahlkonig "gen1" Vario for a few weeks before that, and the gen2 is a truly massive upgrade. Chances of a secondhand gen2: close to zero I would expect.

    The Vario is actually preferable to most stepless grinders: having around 70 calibrated settings within espresso range makes it a lot easier to fine tune than most stepless. It is also easier to repeat a setting later. FWIW, I would rate it as the best grinder for home espresso use by a wide margin: compact, no "bench mess", quiet and consistently narrow particle spread. Not for commercial use, as circa 500g of use requires an A to Z clean as the chamber will be full before 750g and the spread goes to custard immediately (you can even hear it change sound when the chamber fills). Mind you, same with most commercial grinders unless you are not persnickety about the quality in the cup...

    Dosers: For home use, grind retention and staleness preclude them AFAIAC. One of my few remaining grinders has a doser, and I only use it rarely these days: at family parties or suchlike when I have to "pump them out" and speed is more important than quality in the cup. A set of decent scales will also show up how "accurate" a doser really isn't.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    TampIt

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    TampIt

    Yeah, Average used price doesnt fit for these grinders i mentioned.....

    I do know theres a lot of pros and cons on dosers (stale grinds retention and the works)

    I did get a Mazzer Mini from a man in another forum for $200 and it was about 2 years old.....

    All i though was..... JACKPOT!!!

    So i contacted the man in the forum.....

    And got it......

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    TampIt, Do you have a Vario,
    If so is it ceramic or steel burrs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayTCoffeePro View Post
    TampIt, Do you have a Vario,
    If so is it ceramic or steel burrs?
    Hi RayTCoffeePro

    As I stated in this thread - "I bought a Mahlkonig Vario gen2 a few months back, soon followed by a second one for testing & tinkering."

    Considering the Vario's main strength is a very narrow particle spread at "Turkish to espresso grinds", I am surprised their steel burrs still exist as an option. Needless to say, I do not even have a set of their "steel for coarser grind burrs". Perhaps that would turn into a superb coarse grinder, however almost any decent grinder on the market is more than good enough at those settings.

    So yes, both of my Varios have ceramic burrs, as I mainly drink espresso ("short black" in Oz-speak) or lattes these days. Having two Varios is helpful for all kinds of reasons.

    1) If some guests prefer a dark roast, I can accommodate them without screwing up my own coffee settings. I normally drink medium "fair trade organic" single origins. I guess I could also do a decaf, although I haven't for some years.
    2) I also develop the occasional blend using two or more coffees (i.e. "post roasting" blends). Some of my more adventurous "Twilight Zone blends" need a fair bit of tinkering...
    3) I still spend too much time troubleshooting / sorting out / dialling in / training staff in the cafes of friends from my early espresso days (1970 onwards). My new fastest way is to take two Varios and a set of scales. Usually by the time I have cleaned all their gear properly (the most common issue), I know exactly what grind is needed to set their own grinder up for their machine. It also means they are still in full production during my havoc. FYI, most commercial grinders are stepless, mostly with a fairly small physical adjustment range. They are hard to adjust precisely and consistently, quite apart from the 15g or so lag between doing the adjustment and having it settle in. The Vario is sheer magic as a "set up grinder" in that role as it provides a target grinding texture.
    4) I can pull one apart and mod the thing with a "push to start switch" without risking a coffeeless day. I cannot see why it doesn't have such a basic function already when it is supposed to be used direct into a p/f! First day after the older one runs out of warranty... unless Mahlkonig make a gen3 with a switch by then. That was actually "plan A" when I bought the second one, however I have since managed to contort my hand into a position to allow single handed use (despite their damnable attempt to frustrate that by design). Still the Varios number one fault in my book. The perfect grinder is yet to arrive.

    I still have a few other grinders around, so I use one of the others for my "summer iced coffee maker"*. Interestingly (at least to me), it needs a grind halfway between "standard plunger" and "trad espresso". Even at that level of grind, the Vario is not impressive. I think of the Vario as "Turkish to traditional espresso only". If I ever needed another grinder for the coarse stuff, I would probably get a Preciso simply because I love the macro/micro adjustment method and confess they have spoilt me in that way. My current "coarse grinder" (recently relegated) is a commercial Bo-ema RR45 w doser which is a pain to adjust grind texture (i.e. as per the method above). I (very) stupidly sold both my EM480's, they are quite a good coarse grinder in their own right. I should have kept one of them.

    I tried to forestall a few further questions, so hence the slightly longer replay than a simple "Yes".


    TampIt

    "summer iced coffee maker"*: It is a highly modified plunger "hybridised / bastardised with a chemical lab magnetic stirrer" to speed up the coffee making process so I do not get the "brewed taste" I so despise.

    PS: I also use VST ridgeless baskets (several whole sets) and naked portafilters, which together can take full advantage of the Vario's finer grinding capabilities. If I still used standard baskets & p/fs, I doubt I could access the high extraction ratios I am getting. Certainly most cafes cannot.

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    Hi TampIt,

    I gather that, after reading your detailed comments, that the Sunbeam grinders are pretty good grinders for medium to coarse filter grind purposes at home without modifications? (Both the 480 and the 700)

    I guess I'm just sick of hand grinders for making filter coffee at home. My only electric grinder is delegated 100% to espresso grinding only.

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    I've been using my Sunbeam EMO480 for about 12 months now. It took a few months for the burrs to "bed" in and I also had to fit some factory shims which was a pain to get it dialled in just right, but if you can stick it out during this "running in" period, the results will be quite good.

    This isn't a pissing competition where the most expensive grinder automatically wins..... in the real world, there are people like me who have a realistic budget where you look for the best machine that you can afford.
    I defy anyone to "blind" test a selection of freshly ground samples of beans and then tell me which grinder that particular sample came from. That's right, you wouldn't have a clue !

    The most expensive car doesn't make you the best driver, the most expensive pair of running shoes will not make you an Olympian and so on. So, name-dropping a trendy brand of grinder doesn't impress me one iota.

    My humble EMO480 delivers consistent grinds day after day and has been doing so for the past 9 months after the initial bedding in process. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a ten dollar grinder from the reject shop is a mustard cutter but if you move up the scale to a reasonable machine, you can't go wrong.
    I'm fully aware that I'm "bottom feeding" in the grinder market and I'll most likely graduate to a more refined grinder one day but good quality need not cost obscene amounts of cash merely because it has a "name".
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    Quote Originally Posted by oble89 View Post
    Hi TampIt,

    I gather that, after reading your detailed comments, that the Sunbeam grinders are pretty good grinders for medium to coarse filter grind purposes at home without modifications? (Both the 480 and the 700)

    I guess I'm just sick of hand grinders for making filter coffee at home. My only electric grinder is delegated 100% to espresso grinding only.
    Hi oble89

    I used my two 480's for well over two years for espresso (nasty divorce curtailed gear & funds). I made one of them semi stepless (somewhere on CS it shows you how) and they both worked really well for any type of normal espresso grinds. Even after I changed over to VST baskets they were good enough to live with medium to long term. The maintenance they need, the noise and (mostly) the lack of fine adjustment were the eventual reasons for moving on. It took me a couple of weeks to really get the Vario to shine, and then there is no way back...

    Quote Originally Posted by terrawarra View Post
    I've been using my Sunbeam EMO480 for about 12 months now. It took a few months for the burrs to "bed" in and I also had to fit some factory shims which was a pain to get it dialled in just right, but if you can stick it out during this "running in" period, the results will be quite good.

    This isn't a pissing competition where the most expensive grinder automatically wins..... in the real world, there are people like me who have a realistic budget where you look for the best machine that you can afford.
    I defy anyone to "blind" test a selection of freshly ground samples of beans and then tell me which grinder that particular sample came from. That's right, you wouldn't have a clue !

    The most expensive car doesn't make you the best driver, the most expensive pair of running shoes will not make you an Olympian and so on. So, name-dropping a trendy brand of grinder doesn't impress me one iota.

    My humble EMO480 delivers consistent grinds day after day and has been doing so for the past 9 months after the initial bedding in process. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a ten dollar grinder from the reject shop is a mustard cutter but if you move up the scale to a reasonable machine, you can't go wrong.
    I'm fully aware that I'm "bottom feeding" in the grinder market and I'll most likely graduate to a more refined grinder one day but good quality need not cost obscene amounts of cash merely because it has a "name".
    Hi terrawarra

    "This isn't a pissing competition where the most expensive grinder automatically wins": too right. I actually should have kept one of my 480's "post Vario" as a coarse grinder. Just because the Vario is better at "finer than espresso VST grinds" it doesn't mean the 480 is junk. Far from it - set up properly it is a bargain which will take some (very expensive) beating...

    BTW, I substituted my 480 for their "expensive commercial grinder" at a tasting night once (the devil made me do it, I was getting fed up with the "harvested by virgins from the north slope using the light of a new moon" and "fine taste of cinnamon, honey and nutmeg with a hint of citrus and an lingering aftertaste of grape on the palate" conversation) and no one picked it after 20 or so coffees. The 480 ain't that bad...

    TampIt
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    Yes, considering you can grab the 0480 for $100 on sale it is amazing value. Assuming that all of the other variables of preparation are in check, i.e. fresh quality beans, machine & operator - you can still get great coffee... thats not to say that the coffee won't improve with a better grinder!

    Honestly though I still love using my 0480 at work but I'm bloody glad I don't need to wake up to that noise any more. That, and not needing to fiddle around with tamp pressure to hit the sweet spot between the 0480's large steps. And the mess. And... well enough reasons for me to justify an upgrade of a few hundred $$.

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    TampiIt said:

    Hi terrawarra

    "This isn't a pissing competition where the most expensive grinder automatically wins": too right. I actually should have kept one of my 480's "post Vario" as a coarse grinder. Just because the Vario is better at "finer than espresso VST grinds" it doesn't mean the 480 is junk. Far from it - set up properly it is a bargain which will take some (very expensive) beating...

    BTW, I substituted my 480 for their "expensive commercial grinder" at a tasting night once (the devil made me do it, I was getting fed up with the "harvested by virgins from the north slope using the light of a new moon" and "fine taste of cinnamon, honey and nutmeg with a hint of citrus and an lingering aftertaste of grape on the palate" conversation) and no one picked it after 20 or so coffees. The 480 ain't that bad...

    TampIt

    Thanks TampIt.... I had a good laugh at that !
    Take no notice of me, 'cos I'm just a grumpy old man and sometimes my mouth runs away before my brain. I had a laugh

    and yes, the stuff made in China doesn't exactly have a name for producing goods that last a long time.... that's why my next grinder will be a tad better.
    cheers !




  18. #18
    mds
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    Hi TampIt

    We should start a thread about "I was getting fed up with the "harvested by virgins from the north slope using the light of a new moon" and "fine taste of cinnamon, honey and nutmeg with a hint of citrus and an lingering aftertaste of grape on the palate" conversation)". I am always amazed that they don't find the taste of coffee in coffee.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mds View Post
    Hi TampIt

    We should start a thread about "I was getting fed up with the "harvested by virgins from the north slope using the light of a new moon" and "fine taste of cinnamon, honey and nutmeg with a hint of citrus and an lingering aftertaste of grape on the palate" conversation)". I am always amazed that they don't find the taste of coffee in coffee.
    Coffee is a highly complex beverage comprised of many hundreds of compounds, some of which are the same compounds found in cinnamon, honey, nutmeg, citrus and grapes. The ability of those with palates sensitive enough to detect some of these compounds is hardly worthy of ridicule and, on the flip side, only being able to smell and taste the coffee in coffee is hardly laudable or thread worthy.
    chokkidog likes this.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    Coffee is a highly complex beverage comprised of many hundreds of compounds, some of which are the same compounds found in cinnamon, honey, nutmeg, citrus and grapes. The ability of those with palates sensitive enough to detect some of these compounds is hardly worthy of ridicule and, on the flip side, only being able to smell and taste the coffee in coffee is hardly laudable or thread worthy.
    Hi Vinitasse

    I agree about the different flavours / textures / aromas in full. However when the conversation goes into the Twilight Zone at a rate of knots and they cannot even detect the difference between a $2,000 and a $200 grinder it becomes, to quote a good friend, an exercise in mental masturbation rather than facts.

    TampIt
    Fard and mds like this.

  21. #21
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    Hear, hear !


  22. #22
    Rbn
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    Another fantastic thread!
    Information, Intrigue, ad drama, a thread very worthy of it's place in C/S.
    And I am sure my 'used EM480, with shims' is way above my skill level anyway.
    So I will stick with it for now and try to figure out how to make my pour start out as treacle.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawill View Post
    Another fantastic thread!
    Information, Intrigue, ad drama, a thread very worthy of it's place in C/S.
    And I am sure my 'used EM480, with shims' is way above my skill level anyway.
    So I will stick with it for now and try to figure out how to make my pour start out as treacle.
    G'day rawill

    "start out as treacle": Starting with a "normal rawill grind" for your gear. If you hard tamp (i.e. at least 10Kg's tamping force) both an inital tamp at "1mm flattened" and a second tamp at "2mm flattened", load the rest of the shot with a "rawill normal dosing & tamping" (whatever that is in your case) and then "preinfuse & pause for about 5 seconds" before finally pressing "go" - virtually any grind texture will start a lot slower and then speed up. It would have to be near plunger grind to start fast... Of course, that is the extreme that will initially choke most machines compared to a standard "one tamp & press go" normal rate. Tinker away after that until you get the mix of speeds that suits your style.

    ... and as long as you are enjoying your coffee, does it really matter?


    TampIt

  24. #24
    Rbn
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    G'day rawill


    ... and as long as you are enjoying your coffee, does it really matter?


    TampIt
    Of course, this is correct, but as an avid tinkerer, one has to keep experimenting, trying.

    And I think I might be close, as sometimes with the 7g VST I get drips before the stream starts.
    Perhaps I am looking for too much treacle, my pour at the start does not seem thick enough to call it treacle.

    Beware Side track, totally irrelevant to making coffee!

    I once had a go at getting as many satelites as I could from the Clarke belt.
    It took me an absolute age to get the arc on my rotating satelite dish right, a mm or two on the vertical mount made all the difference.
    Those who know will know, for others this post will have veen gibberish!

    Then because the wind could get at the dish, and the dish was over a meter in diameter things would change!

    Now how about a trip to the north side in the full moon.



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