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Thread: Its this straight ?

  1. #1
    Member Grummer's Avatar
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    Its this straight ?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Well I have enquired freight costs of grinders (Mahlkoerig Vario) from two places to New Zealand to compare, both says they offer free freight to NZ (nice) and it comes with an international warrenty, while the other says freight is in the vincity of 130 (mainly insurance on the overseas shipping just in case), but no international warrenty, just a return to base (which seems the more usual procedure)...., the later is your reknown trusted vendor - Di Bartoli , the former is the

    of the two are, dibartio and the former is the Coffeeitalia Australian, heck they even sells
    a commercial link removed per http://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-ne...icy-rules.html Fiorenzato Doge 63 Coffee Grinder for $699...very tempting!!

    so...

    go for the Vario from Italia? or is it safer to get it from Di Bartoli ? (this is where I bought the Bacchi from - their very last one)

    only reason im thinking of the Doge 63 is that its VERY similar in price...but they may not offer free freight for this to NZ?? (id ask)...now if they say yes, get it? or stick with the Vario??

    Sorry this is crazy, 2 different animals of grinders...

    umm argghhh
    Last edited by Javaphile; 24th September 2014 at 02:01 AM. Reason: Commercial link(s) removed

  2. #2
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    if you search the forums you will find a thread on coffeeitalia experiences that may be worth a read. I bought from them years ago but they had a local rep/agent then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummer View Post
    Well I have enquired freight costs of grinders (Mahlkoerig Vario) from two places to New Zealand to compare, both says they offer free freight to NZ (nice) and it comes with an international warrenty, while the other says freight is in the vincity of 130 (mainly insurance on the overseas shipping just in case), but no international warrenty, just a return to base (which seems the more usual procedure)...., the later is your reknown trusted vendor - Di Bartoli , the former is the

    of the two are, dibartio and the former is the Coffeeitalia Australian, heck they even sells
    a commercial link removed per http://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-ne...icy-rules.html Fiorenzato Doge 63 Coffee Grinder for $699...very tempting!!

    so...

    go for the Vario from Italia? or is it safer to get it from Di Bartoli ? (this is where I bought the Bacchi from - their very last one)

    only reason im thinking of the Doge 63 is that its VERY similar in price...but they may not offer free freight for this to NZ?? (id ask)...now if they say yes, get it? or stick with the Vario??

    Sorry this is crazy, 2 different animals of grinders...

    umm argghhh
    Hi Grummer

    ... back to Italian steel burrs & a doser. If you love stale coffee or neverending cleaning after each dose, go for it. The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history.

    I bought my Vario's from Grand Central Bibra Lake. Not usually direct to public, however Luke has a Vario for a $$$'s less. Worth a look but check for warranty conditions.

    Also Mahlkonig's are distributed from Sydney, I assume they may have a NZ agent as well. Probably worth a look up / email by starting at their German home page.

    TampIt
    Last edited by Javaphile; 24th September 2014 at 02:02 AM. Reason: Commercial link(s) removed

  4. #4
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history.
    Hi Tampit,

    What do you mean by "will probably work" and " for a while".

    Grummer.... some reading for you re steel vs ceramic.

    https://www.baratza.com/blog/steel-v...n-the-lowdown/
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  5. #5
    TC
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    I can fully understand why a company might produce a ceramic burr. It gives them something different to sell. Realistically, home users are going to get many, many years out of their metal burrs and the grinders they are installed them are going to be around for a long, long time. Witness those of us who have ex. cafe grinders 10, even 15 years old. They're heavy and substantially metal.

    When I see mainly plastic I cannot help but think that longevity will be compromised. I'd personally rather have manufacture quality and take a small hit on wasted coffee. Others choose not to and that's fine by me.
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  6. #6
    TOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    ... back to Italian steel burrs & a doser. If you love stale coffee or neverending cleaning after each dose, go for it. The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history....
    Still not understanding what the motivation is to put blatant misinformation out into the market place.

    "...Stale coffee and never ending cleaning after each dose...." I think not, except perhaps for the most difficult and uncompromising clients.

    "...The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history..." Really? Readers should take the comment in proper context.

    Perhaps a set of ceramic grinding burrs will out last a set of steel ones over a period of many years home use....note....*period of years*.

    Doesnt take into account for the different types of metal burrs that are fitted or can be bought as replacements.

    Doesnt take in account that (in my own personal experience) most home users dont use much more than 250 grams of coffee per week.

    People who actively participate in these forums seem to mostly buy ex cafe grinders or semi commercial type grinders. The manufacturers advise an average service life of the planar grinding plates at about 400 kilos throughput (much more for conicals). While this varies with type of coffee used, 400 kilos divided by 250 grams /week = a service life of over 32 years. Halve that for someone that uses more than average and its still 16 years.

    A well designed and simple semi commercial or commercial grinder is still running and doing the job it was designed for, in 16 years no question.....will the other grinders referred to here last long enough in toto so that their apparently very long lived ceramic burrs can keep on keeping on?

    Context please.
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    "...The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history....
    I wonder why there are so few commercial grinders with ceramic burrs ?
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    Is TampIt suggesting a domenstic a Vario ceramic burr grinder will last longer than a commercial steel burr grinder??

    Note to all reputatable cafés around the world sell you big bling and expensive grinders (EK 43, Mazzer Kold, Rubor etc) and buy a $680 vario apparently they will last considerably longer!! Bargin

    In the words on TopGear "on that bomb shell"...
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    The burrs will probably work for a while domestically, however the Vario's ceramic ones will be unmarked long after the Italian steel ones are history
    Not to labour the point, but this is bordering on duplicity.

    - The ceramics may last longer, but that only matters if the steel burrs last an unacceptably short time.
    - I'd much prefer to have steel burrs if I had the misfortune to grind a rock, which is quite possible.
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  10. #10
    TC
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    Agreed. The key thing is that ceramic burrs are cheap (to manufacture).

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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    I wonder why there are so few commercial grinders with ceramic burrs ?
    I thought about this too...but when i thought about it, its like, the turn-around of making-selling ceramics in households is likely to be more "profitable" as there is LESS grinders to be sold to households. with so many variety from way dirt cheap, to way blingy expensive cafe' types. The cheap stuff as we know here, have crappiest blades the cuts rather than crush to even sizes...($30 grinders for instance, appliances types). The uneducated just buys it, knowing nothing 'but its a grinder'....on the other hand, this 'niche' marketing to sell ceramics as they do last longer, and have less heat retention, thus less affects on the coffee as end result (and probably may explain why some prefer the 'taste from steel burrs as a 'slightly burnt grinds' may 'taste normal' due to be so used to it....are probably aimed to erm..."Coffee snobs" (pardon the pun I had a laugh)...

    however caveat seems to be that ceramic burrs breaking at cafes could well put their business at risk of stalls due to repairs or replacing more expensive blades...
    and
    the production of ceramic blades being small(er) volumes (as in niche of home-based market) may render the perception as a lower risk in terms of consumer satisfaction, after all ceramic burrs users is not likely to use it for a home brew setup, as it could break on beans too lightly roasted ? or something I need to point out that I know NOTHING ABOUT ROASTING, it's just me guessing on maybe why ceramics not being suitable for this application).

    am i wrong about this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    Not to labour the point, but this is bordering on duplicity.

    - The ceramics may last longer, but that only matters if the steel burrs last an unacceptably short time.
    - I'd much prefer to have steel burrs if I had the misfortune to grind a rock, which is quite possible.
    how possible for a rock, stones to get in your grinder??

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummer View Post
    how possible for a rock, stones to get in your grinder??
    Easy: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/home-roast...nd-coffee.html

  14. #14
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummer View Post
    how possible for a rock, stones to get in your grinder??
    It's not uncommon for foreign objects to find their way into coffee beans during processing Grummer, people have reported everything from stones to nails, think I even read a report on someone finding the tip of a human finger, commercial roasters use destoners and magnets to solve the problem, home roasters are more at risk.

    If you roast at home it pays to be vigilant, do a visual check, I watch carefully at every step, when weighing out the greens, pouring into roaster, whilst in the cooler, and during the pre grind preparation, over the years I've picked up a few small stones, not common but it only takes one.

    Andy (Coffee Snobs) has a warning printed on his green bean labels,

    "NOTE This is a raw product direct from coffee origin and could contain foreign objects that you would prefer not to come in contact with your coffee and coffee making equipment. Please process with care."

  15. #15
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Coming back to your original post Grummer; why not purchase locally in NZ? You can get Mazzer,

    Anfim, Quickmill, Rancilio and probably others.

    You'll get local service, and replacement burrs easily!!! ;-D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Agreed. The key thing is that ceramic burrs are cheap (to manufacture).
    Not decent ones!

    Having replaced dozens of sets of steel burrs in Italian (mainly, + other nationalities) commercial grinders over the years, most of their "off the shelf steels" are far too soft to be considered tool steel quality. Hence their life span is massively less than it should be. The Mahlkonig / Ditting steel burrs are significantly harder (easily tool steel grade) and tend to last a lot longer as a direct result. The Swiss Ditting ceramic burrs in a Vario outlast their own steel burrs by a factor of three (see Mahlkonig website: buried in their research papers somewhere).

    Of course, as mentioned somewhere else in this thread, there are a lot of aftermarket burrs out there. Presumably some of them use decent grades of steel... If I hadn't sold off all my Italian commercial grinders a few months back, I would be actively seeking them out.

    Back to the Vario: That means for domestic users an act of destruction is more likely to take the burrs out as wear is a non event.

    BTW, I would never use a Vario in a high volume environment for a completely different (not burr related) reason: the chamber fills at about the 750g mark and needs a quick clean or the particle size variation is instantly shot. Considering the Vario's main benefit is their (very) narrow particle spread, needless to say that is an instant showstopper in a cafe. You can even hear the Vario's note change when it happens. That is why other "commercial" grinders are more suitable in that environment. For a home user, a quick clean every second 250g lot of coffee is a simple procedure.

    TampIt
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    I agree Yelta.... I had first experience about 15 years ago. I poured some fresh beans into the hopper of my burr grinder, flipped the switch and seconds later, it went bang.... a puff of smoke and my grinder was dead !

    After I stripped the machine down, I found a bullet, 22 calibre, just the slug, not the brass casing.
    Yep, the slug had jammed up the works and blew the motor. How the slug got there I don't know... at that time of my life, I was using some vague, supermarket brand of beans distantly related to Colombian drug lords and maybe the bullet came from there !


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrawarra View Post
    I agree Yelta.... I had first experience about 15 years ago. I poured some fresh beans into the hopper of my burr grinder, flipped the switch and seconds later, it went bang.... a puff of smoke and my grinder was dead !

    After I stripped the machine down, I found a bullet, 22 calibre, just the slug, not the brass casing.
    Yep, the slug had jammed up the works and blew the motor. How the slug got there I don't know... at that time of my life, I was using some vague, supermarket brand of beans distantly related to Colombian drug lords and maybe the bullet came from there !

    hahaha wow, what a story, you never know!, you could be right!!

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    Thanks Grummer,.... yeah, it's funny now when I look back at it 15 years later..... but I sure was pissed off that day when my grinder bit the dust, it's now in grinder heaven, somewhere in the sky.

    It was a lesson learned and even now, I'm always on the lookout for any stray bits of crap in my beans. Found a few foreign objects over the years such as small stones and unidentifiable bits & pieces,... but no more bullets !

    cheers

    PS. check out Andys collection of bits & pieces from his past. Stones 'n stuff I've found in coffee...



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