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Thread: Mazzer SJ advice

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    Mazzer SJ advice

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    After much deliberation, after being scared of phrases such as 'grind retention', 'fine retention' after reading review after review on the mazzer mini and m4. I have decided to spring for the mazzer SJ. I figure it is a life time investment so well worth it.

    I have a few questions, are there any known problems with this machine, grind retention etc? I am thinking i prefer the electronic over the doser variety as i don't tend to dose that much at once. Any concerns here?

    Am i going to be able to get the most out of this grinder with a breville dual boiler or will i be looking to upgrade that?

    Any suggestions on a good place to buy them in sydney?

    Thanks!

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    have a Masser Kony e. Re grind retention with the doserless.
    I and many others have had to modify the grind path to stop grind retention. I don't know the design of the SJ. With the doserless Kony, I had to remove the mesh between the grind chute and the large grind funnel. If I remember I had to unscrew the grind funnel and the pull off the mesh that is held in place with tape. This allows me to clear the grinds away. I don't think there are much grinds left. I only grind on demand, e.g. If I want to grind 17gms for the brew I only put 17gms in my modified hopper. So there are no beans left to grind when I have cleared the chute and spun the empty cones. Sort of 100% fresh. It is now sort of automatic and I don't notice the extra steps.
    I totally love the Kony and its fast, even, clumpless grinds. The Kony is married to a Rocket Premium PID What a lovely couple. It believe getting a top notch grinder in one step is better that several frustating upgradeitis steps.
    Yep i just checked, I think the SJ grind doserless funnel design is similar to the Kony's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dumiya View Post
    I only grind on demand, e.g. If I want to grind 17gms for the brew I only put 17gms in my modified hopper. So there are no beans left to grind when I have cleared the chute and spun the empty cones.
    This is what i was planning on doing. Have seen a few people remove the hopper and add a paper cup with a tamper over the top to keep the beans from bouncing. Good to know that there is a solution for the grind retention if i notice it to be a problem.

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    17g of beans will easily fit into the throat of a Super Jolly with room left over for a tamper to sit on top of them to reduce popcorning and bits from escaping. One of the extremely cheap double ended alum ones works great. The one I have/use is 50mm/55mm. With the 55mm side down the tamper stays in the throat and on top of the beans all the way down to the narrowing of the throat just above the burrs. No need for any mods of any kind and the grinder will fit much better under cabinets.


    Java "Well....under some cabinets anyways!" phile
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    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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    Well. I pulled the trigger one new black SJ electronic will be delivered tomorrow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredw View Post
    Well. I pulled the trigger one new black SJ electronic will be delivered tomorrow.
    Good choice Jared. The Mazzer-E models are as scarce as hen's teeth at present. We're down to our last couple of SJ-E and then that's it until just before Christmas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Good choice Jared. The Mazzer-E models are as scarce as hen's teeth at present. We're down to our last couple of SJ-E and then that's it until just before Christmas.
    Any reason for this? I hope they are not about to launch a new model!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredw View Post
    Any reason for this? I hope they are not about to launch a new model!
    Yes. Demand outstripped supply. No new models that I have any whispers on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Yes. Demand outstripped supply. No new models that I have any whispers on.
    Excellent. Glad it is from it being popular. Sounds like i made the right call!

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    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    I just ordered one of these myself! Didn't do too much research but I like Mazzers and I like the Electronic versions. Should arrive before I get back from my holiday. Pretty keen to get stuck into it!

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    I have had my Mazzer SJ_E for about 18 months now. I removed the mesh screen to stop the build-up of grinds and make it easy to brush out, I have placed a cut-down kitchen whisk inside the cone to cut down on static and clumping, I dose the grinder manually and use a sunbeam double basket that sits snugly in the throat of the grinder, after grinding into portafilter I use a small paintbrush to sweep out chute and inside of cone, grind retention almost zero. Works a treat for me!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenman View Post
    I have had my Mazzer SJ_E for about 18 months now. I removed the mesh screen to stop the build-up of grinds and make it easy to brush out, I have placed a cut-down kitchen whisk inside the cone to cut down on static and clumping, I dose the grinder manually and use a sunbeam double basket that sits snugly in the throat of the grinder, after grinding into portafilter I use a small paintbrush to sweep out chute and inside of cone, grind retention almost zero. Works a treat for me!!
    Have now put 50 shots through it (it came with 3 shots on the shot meter, not sure what that is about i guess factory testing), Mostly getting the grind and timer right.
    My first impressions are there is a lot of clumping! Was not expecting this from a 1200$ grinder.
    Second impression it is a messy grinder! Not sure what it is, but i appear to get about 16grams into the breville bes900 portafilter, probbly .5 of a gram gets left in the tray. I then just knock down the pile with my finger and use the manual button to fill the last 2 grams. As an aside i hate that i can't seem to cancel an automatic dosing. Put a few shots worth of beans onto the tray because of this.

    Third impression while it certainly has improved my espresso, it was not the huge jump i was hoping for. Still lacks the syrupy consistency and buttery mouth feel. This might just require some dialling in or perhaps now my machine is the bottle neck to quality and need to think about an upgrade

    I am also left a little stumped it came with a silver metal box with a u shaped cut out of the top with rubber feat on the bottom. Can not for the life of me figure out what it is for. Any clues?

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    TOK
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    Impossible to give advice without first knowing:
    a) what grinder you came from and
    b) what your coffee making technique is.

    However in general terms, you need to be careful about doing too much reading/researching. Its common for people to get wound up in the moment and think that buying (large... in terms of home use) grinders designed and intended for commercial / cafe use, is going to bring on some kind of significant change to what they are getting from their old equipment. But it really depends ion what equipment they are coming from (and it hasnt been stipulated here). And as stated these grinders are made for commercial use = volume. If you use them in a home use situation a different set of rules apply and the most basic one is....just because something is designed to make life easier in a cafe in volume use, doesnt mean its standard of grind is better than something that costs half the amount..it just means it can cope with a lot more volume than the grinder that costs half the amount...

    Does the SJ give you a *better grind* than a Mini (to compare two models from the same stable and not complicate matters by mentiooning other brands) ? I think not (or atleast not in a way that I would term significant enough to notice if you were running tests by adjusting all to get the very best possible coffee from each and then comparing). The difference is in the volume they can each cope with before failing.

    Clumping.....could be your coffee making technique ie some people grind finer and dose less for a particular flow rate. I personally tend to updose and use a slightly coarser grind (than someone that uses a smaller dose), for the same flow rate (given the same beans) That means less clumping, for any particular type of coffee. Additionally clumping also depends on the coffee and how it was roasted. Darker beans will genertally clump more....and we dont know what coffee you are using.

    Also....what's the problem with clumping? People talk about it as if it were some kind of evil, but most operators are settling then tamping...clumps gone. Careful operators take their time to dose up the filter in the best possible way. So...the problem is...?

    My suggestion woult be to NOT upgrade your machine until you have become totally familiar with your new grinder, otherwsie it will just complicate matters for you. I would give it some months atleast.

    Lastly. 50 shots is a drop in the ocean in getting to know your new equipment. Your observations will change of necessity over time as you become more familiar with it.

    Enjoy
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    FWIW, I had a lot of clumping for several years - until the grinder edges were 'run in'. For what I gleaned the steel milling process can leave rough microscopic edges that wear correctly after a while. Some say the clumping is due to uneven grinds. My Grinder , well run in, is perfect. The clumping is not serious, as my Rocky at work (rough as bags) is clumpy but now I have the grind right it produces better than average coffee.
    The messy bit is really finding the correct technique, procedure. At last after a lot of trail and error I can use those off centre tooth flossers. Just takes time.
    RE timer - Press the Hand finger button - this should give you a manual dosing (it does on mine), However the counter won't count. However yours may have a group handle push button.

    ""I am also left a little stumped it came with a silver metal box with a u shaped cut out of the top with rubber feat on the bottom. Can not for the life of me figure out what it is for. Any clues?"" Slide the group handle into the 'u' to tamp. Saves damaging a wooden surface. Well that what I think!

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    TOK
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    Hi there. So as not to confuse the issue, it should be noted that flat grinding burrs (plates) as per SJ etc. "run in" very quickly with little noticeable change in the grinds and brew, in comparison to conical burrs (a la your Kony etc i.e. commercial conicals) which will take a great deal of time in a household situation due to lack of required volume throughput, before they settle down to deliver a consistent product.

    This is one of the reasons why there really are 2 separate camps in roasting industry, with one group favouring grinders with grinding plates and the other favouring comical burrs. Cafe clients that dont have much experience with conicals are very service "intensive" on their suppliers if they have been supplied with a conical grinder, as the grind starts off not all that great and changes over time until it becomes consistent, and the clients not underatanding this or able to cope with it complain about "inconistent beans" or "inconsistent roasts", when its actually large conicals bedding in...

    Lets say for example, it takes roughly 50 to 60 kg to bed in a set of conicals, and some supplier places a (new or with new burrs) conical into a cafe (usually because they demand one) that only does say 15 kg a week. That means it will take roughly a month for the equipment to bed it to deliver a consistent product. It's not worth the angst you get from clients that dont know as much about coffee making as they should or think they do, and shows that both mediums have a proper place in the supply chain depending on individual circumstances.

    Ergo as the endless cyclic discussion forges on.....what is the definition of "better" in the context of good management, with cafe people being "trained" to think that conicals are "better" carte blanche than planar types, when in fact the answer depends on the situation and on different paramaters.

    Its just every day stuff in the life of coffee roasters and equipment suppliers..//

    I digressed....the point is that with the SJ, bedding in wont be a problem.
    Last edited by TOK; 29th November 2014 at 11:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dumiya View Post
    ""I am also left a little stumped it came with a silver metal box with a u shaped cut out of the top with rubber feat on the bottom. Can not for the life of me figure out what it is for. Any clues?"" Slide the group handle into the 'u' to tamp. Saves damaging a wooden surface. Well that what I think!
    Thought this, but at least my group handle doesn't fit in any meaningful way into the U.

    Good to hear the clumping will go away, i am not really concerned about it. Was just surprised that it happens given most peoples aversion to that word.

    Yup looking forward to a long and fun road getting used to the new grinder looking forward to it rolling over to 5000 Thanks everyone for the tips.

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    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    Well this arrived today!

    First impressions: Man those two machines look nice together

    10410146_10153004113810676_7784579335305058832_n.jpg

    Will post actual results after drinking copious amounts of coffee tomorrow.

    Michael
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    Clumping is not an issue. The metal stand is a tamping stand and it should have come with an awful aluminium tamper as well. To save mess get a dosing funnel, they work a treat! Or alternatively dose into a cup first then into your portafilter. But really that is what the grind tray is for. Good luck getting used to it Jaredw

    Nice set up mwcalder05! Enjoy being over caffeinated playing with the new toy!

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    Going to revive this old thread rather than making a new one. I have put 300 odd shots (+1kg of old beans that a roaster gave me to help season the burrs), and i am getting horrible grind retention. Weigh out 19g of beans put into throat, put a tamper on top, grind. I get 15-16g into the basket. Does anyone have any suggestions for mods to help this out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredw View Post
    Going to revive this old thread rather than making a new one. I have put 300 odd shots (+1kg of old beans that a roaster gave me to help season the burrs), and i am getting horrible grind retention. Weigh out 19g of beans put into throat, put a tamper on top, grind. I get 15-16g into the basket. Does anyone have any suggestions for mods to help this out?
    3g seems like a lot of retention for an SJ... But then it's been a long time since I've used mine without scraping the chute after every shot.

    My single dosing workflow (be aware that you have to remove a guard for this to work);
    - Weigh ~21g of coffee (I only bother weighing it to save on wastage).
    - Run 2g of coffee down the neck, drop tamper into neck (since these grinders are designed for volume use they tend to be more consistent with weight on the upper burr carrier, also stops it spiting the beans out) to flush any stale stuff.
    - Wait for it to spin down, scrape the chute, (I use an old plastic "opening tool" from an phone repair kit).
    - Dump the contents of the doser in the bin.
    - Throw 19g in the neck, tamper on top.
    - Wait for it to spin down, scrape the chute.
    - Dose to PF, etc.

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    Yeah it is frustratingly high. it all seems to get stuck on the anti static guard. I threw 19g in ground, sweeped the shoot. Span the grinder again, resweeped, then ran the grinder again and this got me about 18.6 grams. Much better! However this whole process took nearly 2 mins. Which is just frustrating.

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    Many remove the static screen. My technique: put 18gms of beans into my modified hopper. Grind, sweep out retained grinds in the shute, start the grinder which throws out retained grinds pushed back to the cones. I get my 18gms in my GH. Takes about 5secs on top of the initial grind.
    I think that although there are some grinds in the machine they are 'stuck' there and create a channel and do not get mixed with the current grind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dumiya View Post
    Many remove the static screen. My technique: put 18gms of beans into my modified hopper. Grind, sweep out retained grinds in the shute, start the grinder which throws out retained grinds pushed back to the cones. I get my 18gms in my GH. Takes about 5secs on top of the initial grind.
    I think that although there are some grinds in the machine they are 'stuck' there and create a channel and do not get mixed with the current grind.
    Saw some videos of what happens if you do that. Not keen there. If i sweep the shute then it frees up more. I then have to run the grinder which gets more grinds stuck rinse repeat a few times. Even then i am losing about .4g which is not horrible and i suspect its stuck under the burrs.

    I might invest in a softer brush/larger to try get through the static screen better and see how that helps the time. Frustrating

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredw View Post
    Saw some videos of what happens if you do that. Not keen there.
    Can you give me a reference to these videos or information. I always put safety first so passing on the details I think is of critical importance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dumiya View Post
    Can you give me a reference to these videos or information. I always put safety first so passing on the details I think is of critical importance.
    I will attempt to re-dig up the video. Nothing safety wise just a video of the grinds shooting all over the place and sticking to the side of the metal shute.

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    Thanks for the reply, and that it is not a safety issue, I can see there would be differences due to the speed of the burrs or cones. My grinder spin speed is quite slow. I can see that the manufacturer would probably construct the grind pathway the same for all models. It would explain the deflector plate in front of the shute. So my mod would not necessarily suit other Mazzer models. Sorry for the distraction.



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