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Thread: mythos one

  1. #1
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    mythos one

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    heard about one of these hitting our shores at a cafe in east perth and wanted to gather a little more information from the community about it. curious that nothing has really been said about the grinder on cs considering it's shiny new-ness.
    cant see much else about the grinder online except bean scenes one article on a 3 WBC champs working with NS on the project.
    seems to tick all the boxes on on-demand grinding. cant imagine it will be too far off from the circa 3600 people are paying for ek43s and roburs.

    obviously i dont think it'll fit the home use sort of demand, but then again we see cser's here using ek43s and roburs at home... so, anythings possible right?
    i suppose the thing that is peaking my curiosity here is how does it actually perform? anyone here used it in a commercial/home setting before? it sounds great to have a weighted dose, tight grind distribution and low grind retention grinder that can keep up with a commercial environment.

    fire away guys!
    =)

  2. #2
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    My impression was that this grinder's main claim to fame is temperature stability... not something I feel that I need at home given the rather slow and deliberate process I have for pulling my espresso shots. The new Mahlkonig PEAK is more interesting to me. Trying to pull off an EK43 type grind in an espresso friendly format. I'm looking forward to that release and more details.

  3. #3
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    A cafe in Brisbane has a few of them. I was curious when I saw them a few months ago so the owner let me up close. From his perspective particle size uniformity was the selling point. Visually the grind was really fluffy and I enjoyed very delicious results paired with a LM Strada.

  4. #4
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    That's a monster! Makes a Robur look like a toy, though might have a similar footprint to a EK43.
    Design is obviously much more suited hard up next to a large 3-4 group - certainly not freestanding in home use - unless you want to use your fridge space! Personally I'd avoid anything that 'gently warms and cools the beans throughout the course of the day' - just another level of complication to go wrong IMHO. And stripping/cleaning burrs & hopper looks like challenge.

    But I'm sure someone will pick one up soon and let us know how good it is for home use, then PID it, add climate control and rave about the 0.0005g retention…
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwantfm View Post
    ..... The new Mahlkonig PEAK is more interesting to me. Trying to pull off an EK43 type grind in an espresso friendly format. I'm looking forward to that release and more details.
    there is a long thread on HB with some initial information and the usual opinions !
    looks like an upgraded K30 with...
    Optimised heat transfer
    Premium 80 mm burr
    Illumination function
    Adjustable spout tube & new flapper
    More stable portafilter holder

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    That's a monster! Makes a Robur look like a toy, though might have a similar footprint to a EK43.
    Took this photo earlier today next to a EK43.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
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    The Mythos line of grinders have been around for a while. The Maccas that still run proper NS semi auto espresso machines have been paired with the Mythos plus, which has a built in adjustable tamping device.

    The differences with the Mythos One, is that it has the heating / cooling tech and the clump crusher device, coupled with updated electronic GOD, which helps give a fluffy / accurate grind distribution straight into the p/f and 1g or less retention. Which are all good things for a cafe environment, less waste, more accuracy helping to achieve a high quality consistently.

    They all run 75mm flat burrs mounted on an angle with anything above the basic version can opt for the titanium coating.

    Like kwantfm I think the new Mahlkonig PEAK is sounding much more interesting in a much smaller package, Im guessing it will be around 3 to 3.5K

    But yeah if space and money are no object then the Mythos One sure would be tempting.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    And stripping/cleaning burrs & hopper looks like challenge.
    It's actually pretty easy - reach up behind the control panel and push over a slide that closes the hopper outlet and unlocks it so it lifts straight out. Then undo 4 big screws surrounding the chrome chute on the front that doubles as upper burr carrier and lift it off (without having to disturb the existing grind setting) and you're there.
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  9. #9
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MorganGT View Post
    It's actually pretty easy - reach up behind the control panel and push over a slide that closes the hopper outlet and unlocks it so it lifts straight out. Then undo 4 big screws surrounding the chrome chute on the front that doubles as upper burr carrier and lift it off (without having to disturb the existing grind setting) and you're there.
    Fair enough

  10. #10
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    This is a review of the Mythos grinders...
    http://youtu.be/wdfJKiPBTJA

  11. #11
    JM
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    So, I recently retired a Mazzer Super Jolly and replaced it with a Mythos One. In both cases, grind on demand machines (essential IMO)

    The SJ seemed good enough, but we can definitely taste a difference with the M1. The grinds are fluffy, and the retention is nothing (1gm claimed) so wastage is very low. This is important for home use, as if you are not dumping the first grounds in the portafilter, well after 15 minutes a decent proportion of them are "old". No worries for commercial places as volume of sales deals with that, but at home it's an issue IMO (either use "expired" grounds, or toss them out - so a low-retention grinder a big plus for home use). Is this really an issue? Well one review of the Credo E92 claimed wastage of 37g between doses. "If pulling 5 shots a day at home, would waste 60% clearing the old grounds." I can't verify that, but even if the numbers are less, the point is not lost on me - and the M1's 1gm retention suddenly looks valuable by comparison.

    The M1 burrs are near vertical (the look reminds me of a slim E61 group on it's side in a way), the benefit of this positioning is that the grounds fall out by both spin velocity and gravity, hence the low retention. After much research they also identified an optimum temperature for grinding so there is a built in heater to warm the grind chamber, and a fan to cool it when under extended workload. It remains to be seen how this contributes to the flavour, but given they market this feature as being barista designed, I'm prepared to say there's likely something to it.

    You can program times for Dose 1, Dose 2, Dose 3, and there's a continuous setting. Timing is down to two decimal places, talk about precise and consistent - this means you're eliminating another variable as you refine your overall workflow.

    Burr adjustment is via an excellent knob on the front, has a great feel to it. Already I much prefer this to the usual collar adjustment. The bean hopper is large and largely hidden so the look is a significant break from the paradigm of what a grinder looks like. There's built-in illumination which is a nice touch too.

    I'd prefer the power on/off switch was to the side, but in a cafe the front mount is likely practical. You cycle through the dose settings by pressing the * key. This is fine, but dedicated buttons for the settings would be quicker IMO (first world problem?)

    Grind action starts as soon as you put the lip of the portafilter under the "hook" on the holder.

    A few people here have said the M1 looks like a monster. I disagree. In terms of height it's 510mm to the highest point (knob on bean hopper lid, but bulk of unit is fractionally under 500) and this means it fits under standard kitchen cabinets just fine. It also means it is shorter than the Super Jolly, Kony, Robur, Compaq K10 Fresh (love it!), Credo E92 and Mahlkonig K30 - amongst others. It is also slightly narrower in footprint than our old Super Jolly (and therefore the M1 is also narrower than the Kony and Robur and K30 at least). However the nature of the hopper design does mean it has some upper bulk, and that may contribute to a sense of it being "a monster" - but point is, it doesn't look too big in a domestic environment, and the measurements confirm it is smaller than most other high end grinders).

    Not sure if we are allowed to put external links here, so I'll just cut-and-paste this paragraph from a UK forum (posted by Scotford - writing about a retail environment in London where they gave the M1 a huge workout);

    >"Did I mention that we used 21.5kg of coffee in those four hours? Let that sink in. One thousand and twenty six espresso shots were ground through three grinders. The actual number of shots ground is higher as we did bin ones that we weren't happy with. We guesstimate at around 1040. That is a phenomenal amount to ask of any grinder. Not a single one of us can think of another grinder that would have held up so well. No Roburs. No Ceados. No Anfims. Nothing at all."
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  12. #12
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    Iíve recently upgraded to a Mythos One as well and agree that it is fantastic. The quality and consistency of the grind is a noticeable improvement as is the result in the cup, although I did also upgrade my espresso machine at the same time so havenít been able to test changes from the grinder in isolation.

    Whilst total overkill for doing a couple of shots a day in a domestic set up, the very limited grind retention, virtually zero mess and absolute consistency in volume from dose to dose mean less messing around and wastage which is what I wanted. Iíve found it much easier and quicker to dial in and change between different beans.

    One significant thing Iíve found is that the grinds are such that I can now distribute purely by tapping the portafilter with my hand Ė no swirling or levelling devices needed to break up clumps and achieve a perfectly flat and even distribution before tamping.

    The only negative for me is that the lid on the hopper isnít designed to try and seal somewhere near airtight as I was used to previously. I expect this wouldnít be a problem in its intended commercial setting, but Iím pretty much just putting in beans for each session and limiting the amount I leave sitting in the hopper.
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  13. #13
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    Are you guys single dosing your Mythos One grinders?

  14. #14
    JM
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwantfm View Post
    Are you guys single dosing your Mythos One grinders?
    I'm not. Of course that would be awesome for use with SO's etc.

    As Moby said above, this grinder is a bit OTT @ home, but it ticks a lot of boxes

    >Whilst total overkill for doing a couple of shots a day in a domestic set up, the very limited grind retention, virtually zero mess and absolute consistency in volume from dose to dose mean less messing around and wastage which is what I wanted. I’ve found it much easier and quicker to dial in and change between different beans.

  15. #15
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    With Mythos One, do you need to let it warm up prior to using it? Do you have a way to disable that function?

    I'm currently test driving a Mythos Plus myself, fitted with Mythos One clump crusher ($20). I thought higher rpm is better for home use (grinds in 4s rather than 7s on Mythos One, but it''s splitting hair I know ). Other than the beastly size (deep but narrow), it ticks all other boxes. Can't be beat for on-demand grinding. Have removed the upper burr quite a few time, super easy and very little retention indeed (but not zero of course).

    The most impressive feature for me was the dose consistency. I only have a 0.1g scale and it's on the dot every time once dialed in. More accurate than me weighing them out individually when single-dosing, and much quicker!
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by samuellaw178 View Post
    With Mythos One, do you need to let it warm up prior to using it? Do you have a way to disable that function?

    I'm currently test driving a Mythos Plus myself, fitted with Mythos One clump crusher ($20). I thought higher rpm is better for home use (grinds in 4s rather than 7s on Mythos One, but it''s splitting hair I know ). Other than the beastly size (deep but narrow), it ticks all other boxes. Can't be beat for on-demand grinding. Have removed the upper burr quite a few time, super easy and very little retention indeed (but not zero of course).

    The most impressive feature for me was the dose consistency. I only have a 0.1g scale and it's on the dot every time once dialed in. More accurate than me weighing them out individually when single-dosing, and much quicker!
    No, you can just turn it on and go like any grinder. It does have a heating element which once warmed up is meant to minimise temp variations when in use throughout the day in a cafe setting. Not a feature I was really interested in, although my routine is that I turn it on when I turn the espresso machine on so it gets about 30 mins to warm up before use. So in theory the temp should be pretty consistent every time I use it. I have a mate who purchased one at the same time and he leaves his on 24/7.

    With the speed, I believe they deliberately chose to use flat burrs at a slower speed than you would get from a large conical as part of trying to keep the heat to an ideal level.

  17. #17
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    The idea of the heating element is that in heavy commercial use, any grinder will heat up - but when you hit a quiet period, the grinder will cool back down, and all the metal components will contract slightly, which affects the precision of the grind setting. By heating the grind head when things are quiet, it ensures that the first shot after a quiet period will be as good as all the ones after it. In domestic use where you're not pumping out shots continuously, the grinder will never get hot, so you wouldn't need the heating element working (and it can be unplugged easily from the front of the grinder if you want to).

  18. #18
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    I single dose all the time with my M1, I'll measure out what I require then take 5 or 6 beans and purge them through, then follow with the full dose. It's the best grinder I've ever come in contact with but that's completely biased because I just love it so much, there's nothing to fault for this except the price which is kinda a big deal.

    Single dosing and minimal wastage was absolutely paramount for me and this dominates the market in both those areas.

    I unplugged the heating element straight out of the box, it's completely useless for home use or very low volumes. It's intended to reduce the variable throughout a day of heavy use, so if you're doing any less than 10 coffees a day then it's merely a waste of power.

    I also concur with the ease of dialling this grinder in, I find I never need to waste more than one shot before I have the time spot on. Which means I would be throwing out 18-20g including purge before its dialled in. As compared to my old robur, sj and mazzer mini which all required 50-60g before I dialled a new coffee in.
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  19. #19
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    Hi Brendogs,

    I'm interested in your workflow for single dosing. In my attempt to single-dose my Mythos plus,I noticed there are some 'dead space' that the beans can sit on, thus requiring brushing to feed into the burrs. Do you have to brush to make sure all the beans get in? Or does the M1 have a slightly different throat design?

  20. #20
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    The only frustrating thing I've found which is what I think you're eluding to is when you look down into the hopper and you can see the throat, it seems to be on an very slight horizontal angle. I do find that 4 or 5 beans may just end up sitting there and not feeding into the grinder chamber. It's a tiny bit frustrating but I just look down and blow in that direction and it only takes a little bit of air to get it into the chamber. It's not ideal but single dosing isn't what it's designed for, although it does an absolutely exceptional job at it. This is actually the only issue I have with the grinders performance but then I think back to its intended design and use and quickly remind myself it's meant to be in a cafe not my house, and it's meant to be doing back to back coffees not single doses.

    So all in all a very minor frustration is something that you'll have to deal with, I might get my hands on one of those small hand held air things that you squeeze and it gives a little puff (I have completely gone blank on what this is called haha)

    So to answer your question, the M1 has the same issue, they are exactly the same design just use different components (eg, blades, hopper, clump crusher, switches) and the M1 has a different set of keypad options.

  21. #21
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    Thanks mate. That's exactly what I was pondering about. Not an issue at all, especially when it's not designed for such use (single dosing). But it is certainly great to have the option if needed be. Merry Christmas!

  22. #22
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    Arrow

    Just wanted to resurrect this thread a little with a slight tangent... on differences between older Mythos and Mythos 1.

    I regularly see ex cafe Mythos Plus grinders (with built on tamper) going for somewhere between $1100 and $1500 (sometimes popping up at around $800). Trying not be tempted by these prices but seems like a good deal for this class of grinder.

    From what I understand the underlying grinder is the same but Mythos 1 / Clima Pro adds the heater to ensure consistent burr / bean temp. -edit- Ah yes, the speed difference.
    Am I on the right track?


    Also wondering whether the grind fineness/coarseness adjustment hides on the Mythos Plus.
    -edit- found adjustment knob under the metal cover in the manual
    Last edited by matth3wh; 22nd May 2017 at 02:32 PM.

  23. #23
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    Adds at least:

    1. heater
    2. Aesthetic differences
    3. Slower grind speed
    4. Dont think the clump crusher is on the plus
    5. Smaller hopper
    6. Does the plus have the front led lights?

    For home use I think a plus in good condition should deliver most of what an M1 delivers especially if you can fit the clump crusher
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  24. #24
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    Thank you for that list good sir.

    So now I need to decide if I want a really excellent espresso only grinder at a low price or choose an alternative grinder that can do espresso most of the time with occasional aeropress/pour-over capabilities. I think like you've said elsewhere, there's only so much space at home.

    For anyone interested, I came across this video link on changing the clump crusher.

    Last edited by matth3wh; 22nd May 2017 at 04:14 PM.

  25. #25
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    I actually believe the grind speed is significantly faster on the older Mythos models, part of the grinders evolution was reducing the speed to get better results. Don't quote me on that but I am quite certain that's the case. I also believe it doesn't come with the same burrs, the Mythos 1 has the gold titanium burrs and the older Mythos had a more generic burr set.



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