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Thread: Baratza Preciso

  1. #1
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    Baratza Preciso

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Where can I buy one of these? Is Five Senses the only place? That's seems to be the only shop I can find

    Rob

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    I highly recommend you take a look at the Compak K3 if you can stretch your budget a tad bit more. Haven't used or seen a Baratza in the flesh so can't comment on them. Not too many around and from what I know of only Five Senses sells them in Aus. I can personally vouch for the K3 tho, very solid build and also quite pretty

  3. #3
    Senior Member noidle22's Avatar
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    Pretty sure it has Mahlkonig Vario running gear under the body and I wouldn't touch one of them with a ten foot pole. Build quality is shocking.

    I can vouch for the K3 also as I own one. Can pick them up from Jetblack Espresso for around $550.

    Alternatively, another highly rated grinder is the Macap M4D. Talk Coffee sell these. I believe any of the Macap rage are good, the M2M might be more in your price range.

  4. #4
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    If I wanted a Precisio, I'd save my hard-earned and buy a Breville smart grinder....

    The M2M et al are in a completely different league- and they don't go pop.
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    I also think Preciso might not be the best. But since you are already looking for it, those are the shops I found: commercial link removed per site posting policy or you can order it on commercial link removed per site posting policy.

    Talk_coffee mentioned Breville smart grinder might be better... Um, actually if you are buying smart grinder, buy Breville smart grinder PRO (review). You can get it for 270 AUD on Breville website.
    Last edited by Javaphile; 1st July 2015 at 02:42 AM. Reason: Commercial link(s) removed

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    Ok,now I`m undecided. Read a number of reviews on the Preciso and they seem to come up ok,some reviews preferred it to the Rocky which was what I was looking at to start with. So the Breville Smart grinder is it any good? I was staying away from the Breville/Sunbeam type grinders as I had a EM480 and was not that happy with it's grind performance, maybe they have improved. I`m using a Gino Rossi R45 grinder which I have had for a couple of years but it need to go, its just too big. `m using it with Brugnetti Simona Top.I`ll check out the K3 although it may be out of the price range.

  7. #7
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    I guess it depends on what you're willing to spend. The Preciso looks to be very similar to the Breville Smart Grinder. Considering you can usually pick up the Breville for around $200 it's probably the best buy at this point. I've got a Simona Top too that I'm currently using with a Sunbeam EM0480 that I've very carefully reconditioned and calibrated with excellent results. If you're going to spend $300-$400 I'd be buying a second hand Compak for sure as by all accounts it will outlast and outperform the plasticky offerings from Breville and Baratza at this level.

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    Thanks Leroy. I still have the EM0480 under the house somewhere maybe I should pull it out and give it a go then. Never ground with it for the Simona. It bought it for my EM6910 when I was using that.

  9. #9
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    I'd give the Sunbeam a go for sure. Get it working well then sell your RR45 to fund something really good like a Compak. If you do decide to resurrect your Sunbeam I'd pull it apart and give it a good clean then try grinding with it set in the middle of the scale. Work your way one way or another on the settings until it's at the right point for espresso. If you end up all the way to the left and it's still not grinding fine enough you're going to need to shim the lower burr. It's easy enough to do and shims are available from Ewing Electrical in Nowra who sell them on eBay (or I can send you a spare if you need it). Ewing Electrical also have a page on eBay that shows how to fit the shims.

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    My feelings are the same as Leroy. And as CT subtley tried to put it.
    Your new grinder will eventuallybe compared to the Rr45 - a very good grinder ( commercial qlty)

    All the grinders mentioned are infact a step backwards - never good thing in coffee appreciation land !

    Note -I am not pushing the grinder I'm about to mention, it the experience.

    Once I stepped up to a better grinder ( super jolly) my espresso experience lifted dramatically -
    I could now quickly and easily match my beans / roast/ blend / grind / dose / tamp / basket at will.
    And I could easily change any time I like.

    In short the grinder IMHO is the centre of all the experiences of your coffee adventure.

    Its obv your choice - I'm just passing on my experiences ( and unsaid are the frustrations of trying to get a grinder that doesn't match my
    Machine and get a good quality of shot from it)
    Gwet a grinder with same / similar or better grinding ability with a smaller footprint.
    Long after price is forgotten quality will be remembered
    G.L.

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    I've been using a Baratza Preciso for over 2 years now and it hasn't skipped a beat. Very happy with it.

  12. #12
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    Going from a commercial grinder to a domestic appliance is a retrograde step and I wouldnt do it. There is an entirely different feel, and easier total grinder management in a commercial grinder...in essence, the "total experience". There is more to a grinder than delivery of grinds.

    And in terms of the "size" of a grinder, take care that by far the biggest difference between an RR45 and a smaller domestic model will be in the HEIGHT, not so much in the footprint.

    Suggest you dig out your EM0480 and see how you like using that in comparison to the RR45. That will be an easy (and free given you already have one) test to see f you can live with the consequence of moving backwards in order to gain a bit of extra space.

    You could of course go to a macap M2M or a eureka Mignon which are tiny commercial grinders and have a similar total experience / feel to using larger commercial grinders. They will also last decades with little to no maintenance. However, to go there is still to spend money on a sideways step.

    One suggestion: If your RR45 is an older version that doesnt require the genuine hopper in place to operate, try removing the hopper and feeding it through a temporary, smaller hopper arrangement. That wll make the grinder seem significantly smaller, and will certainly be more convenient if the grinder is sitting under an overhead cupboard. May as well explore your options before making up your mind.

    Hope that helps.

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    Thanks everyone, some good advice given. The height is not the only issue with the RR45,its also a doser model,and as i`m the only one at home that drinks coffee it's just a pain. I never put much thought into it at the time just bought it on impulse. So yes maybe I still need a commercial grinder but something smaller. I`ll try the EM0480 over the weekend and see if i`m disappointed. Although LeroyC is happy with his grinding for his Simona Top.
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    whatever one you pick, make sure that you get one that has a decent back to base warranty, so if you have any probs it's easy to return.

    Personally I would recommend the Rancilio Rocky, but that's just me


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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    Pretty sure it has Mahlkonig Vario running gear under the body and I wouldn't touch one of them with a ten foot pole. Build quality is shocking.

    I can vouch for the K3 also as I own one. Can pick them up from Jetblack Espresso for around $550.

    Alternatively, another highly rated grinder is the Macap M4D. Talk Coffee sell these. I believe any of the Macap rage are good, the M2M might be more in your price range.

    Hi noidle22

    I guess your "Mahlkonig Vario running gear under the body" must be talking about the first model Vario, which I have only seen "under the bonnet" in photos. The "gen2" is a Swiss made sealed module designed by Ditting. Literally a "plug and play" replacement if one is ever needed. My older gen2 has now done well over 150Kgs and the ceramic burrs are still unmarked* as is the insides. It is impossible to tell whether you are looking at my newer gen2 (about 10 Kgs of use) or older one unless you check out my "Texta markings" or find a serial number. Considering my "recently ex" SJ cannot even get 80Kgs before the burrs are shot (i.e. coffee goes to crap) and it never came close to either the coffee or build quality of my Varios it joined a group of 17 "mostly commercial starting with C M & R" grinders I sold off.

    For home use the gen2 has two minor quirks/annoyances, neither of which affects the flavour in the cup. Both my gen2's have the rare gift of being small, quiet, unobtrusive & SWMBO inoffensive. An accurate timer (repeats are within 0.1g!), well over 50 real "within espresso range"settings, a very narrow particle spread and minimal grind retention adds to the charm. The gen2 is still the only electric home grinder I know of that can also go straight into my Ibrik when I feel like a (very) traditional Turkish coffee. My antique Turkish hand grinder is now "surplus to requirements" other than as an ornament. No static, no clumping, no mess on the bench* helps to make the gen2 the easiest grinder to live with at home that I know of - and since my first espresso encounter was 1970, that is a hell of a lot of grinders!

    Of course, all the above would be completely irrelevant to me if they didn't also happen to produce the best quality of "in the cup" espresso / Turkish coffee of any home grinder I know - and not by a small margin. Very few commercial grinders come close to the in the cup experience. The commercial ones that do are well over $2000 - i.e. three times the price and they are not really suitable in a domestic kitchen for low intermittent home use anyway AFAIAC.

    * My older gen2 did a few weeks in a busy cafe on two separate occasions. Used for decaf when their La Cimbali needed some TLC and did 20+Kgs a week there. No overheating or any other probs. Maintenance issue: the chamber needed a cleanout every 750g, which is a PITA in a cafe.

    ** It must be 12 months since I bought my first gen2, not a single ground outside the p/f yet. Initially I had no intention of buying a second gen2 until I tried to match the coffee quality with every site "out there" I could access - a mix of roasters, cafes and upmarket home setups. Half of them bought a Vario gen2...

    Enjoy your cuppa


    TampIt
    PS: I probably wouldn't buy a Preciso for espresso use anyway as the Vario was a lot better in the cup. I am still looking for a really good home grinder for cold steep / drip etc (i.e. the coarser grinds) as the gen2 Vario is really fine tuned for the Turkish to espresso range. The perfect home grinder is still out there somewhere.

    PPS: The Baratza is the parallel import from the US in lieu of the "rest of world's" Mahlkonig. I have posted that on CS several times yet the message is not getting through. Grand Central at Bibra Lake are among many that sell the Mahlkonig Vario in Australia (I bought mine from them).

  16. #16
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    I think noidle22 is probably referring to http://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/4...ley-noise.html

    That is the inside of a Vario.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    Considering my "recently ex" SJ cannot even get 80Kgs before the burrs are shot (i.e. coffee goes to crap)
    Sorry- but absolute BS. Try grinding coffee instead of concrete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Sorry- but absolute BS. Try grinding coffee instead of concrete.
    maybe he needs a SSJ(super super jolly) to turn his not so jolly frown upside down! I bloody love my SJ E and would be around the 80kg mark put through mine and the burrs look as good as they did when new. I honestly feel like I'm still running it in as it just gets better every time I use It. I can see this grinder lasting a very very long time.
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    Ok I think i`m going to go for the Macap M2M. Second choice was the Compak K3 but the M2M's footprint is smaller. The nuova simonelli grinta was also in there but was just not sure about it. So will just bide my time over the next wee or so and see if I can find a bargain M2M, either new or used.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertC View Post
    Ok I think i`m going to go for the Macap M2M. Second choice was the Compak K3 but the M2M's footprint is smaller. The nuova simonelli grinta was also in there but was just not sure about it. So will just bide my time over the next wee or so and see if I can find a bargain M2M, either new or used.
    Site sponsor Coffee-a-Roma sells the M2M for $469. I got it for the same price and in chrome for the price of the black.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Sorry- but absolute BS. Try grinding coffee instead of concrete.
    ... and three cafes in Perth agree with me... after 80Kgs the coffee is only drinkable if you use dark roasts to disguise the grinder's burr quality.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caps View Post
    I think noidle22 is probably referring to http://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/4...ley-noise.html

    That is the inside of a Vario.
    ... nothing like my gen2. That is the photo I was referring to, which is also why I did not post any "assistance" as the gen2 is a total redesign (reputed to be from Baratza to Ditting, FWIW).

  23. #23
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    As always Tampit, bucketfuls of tripe that bear no resemblance to reality...

    Mal.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    ... and three cafes in Perth agree with me... after 80Kgs the coffee is only drinkable if you use dark roasts to disguise the grinder's burr quality.
    Utter rubbish. Congrats on locating the only three in Perth which clearly found some of the same gear to smoke...Did you suck them into buying a few Barootsigs?

    Full moon or what??

  25. #25
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Mr TampIt, any story is only as good as its weakest bit of BS and I find the following more than a little bit hard to swallow: "* My older gen2 did a few weeks in a busy cafe on two separate occasions. Used for decaf when their La Cimbali needed some TLC and did 20+Kgs a week there. No overheating or any other probs. Maintenance issue: the chamber needed a cleanout every 750g, which is a PITA in a cafe."

    20+ Kgs of decaf a week?????

    Really?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    ... nothing like my gen2. That is the photo I was referring to, which is also why I did not post any "assistance" as the gen2 is a total redesign (reputed to be from Baratza to Ditting, FWIW).
    From what I've previously of yours read re 'gen2' indicators, eg minor front panel button label changes, mine is a gen2.
    Regardless, quality of the insides is not a strong point.

  27. #27
    Senior Member noidle22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    ... nothing like my gen2. That is the photo I was referring to, which is also why I did not post any "assistance" as the gen2 is a total redesign (reputed to be from Baratza to Ditting, FWIW).
    Can you provide a photo of the internals of your Preciso so we can compare? The main problem i have with them is the motor they use with a worm gear on the end that has a belt pulley jammed onto it and a tiny grub screw that holds it all together.

    If your Preciso uses a standard motor shaft with a flat spot designed for the grub screw then that will put my mind at ease as that was probably the worst part of the Vario that i knew of.

  28. #28
    TOK
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    I'm hoping that the inflamatory comments in posts #15 and #21 are just another bait up in the unfortunetly ever continuing rounds of grinder topic beat ups here, and not to be taken seriously.

    However, the problem is that aside from the handful of participants that know their stuff and know when their legs are being pulled, the great majority of (silent) readers will have taken those comments seriously, when I am afraid they are to put it mildly, just nonsence.

    a) In the event that any commercial cafe grinder of any brand and model using that style of planar grinding plate needed to have the plates changed out after 80 kilos because there was a significant / noticeable / DETRIMENTAL change in the quality of the coffee, then I would say that would be a 1 in a million case. And of course there would need to be a number of independent variables all occuring together, including for the above average barista to have done EVERYTHING perfectly, to be able to zero in on something like that. Its simply a nonsence.

    b) 3 cafes in Perth. Nonsence. I've spent a lifetime working in coffee business including roasting, selling, servicing, importing equipment, and training just to mention a few of my lifelong experience in actual coffee biz, and if there is anything that I could say in general regarding the cafe industry, its that 99% of cafe management doesnt have a clue about anything to do with real coffee quality or equipment management and it is well known in coffee supply circles that they invariably complain when there is absolutely nothing wrong with their coffee making system other than setup/adjustment. Proven time and again when actual professional service people attend to check, and find either no problem OR a problem of the cafes own making that they are unable to deal with. How that translates into 3 Perth cafes that agree with an apparent IT pro that their grinding plates are useless (my word) after 80 kilos, boggles the mind.

    c) Quote "....* My older gen2 did a few weeks in a busy cafe on two separate occasions. Used for decaf when their La Cimbali needed some TLC and did 20+Kgs a week there. No overheating or any other probs. Maintenance issue: the chamber needed a cleanout every 750g, which is a PITA in a cafe..."
    Yes I can really see that happening.....not. Nonsence again.

    As well stated in post # 25 above, the total quality of a post will be brought down to the value of its lowest common denominator. So once the inflamatory and baseless comments (hearsay actually) above have been taken into consideration, whatever else that was contained in the posts that may have been of good technical or common interest, is rendered useless.
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  29. #29
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    My view on this thread.

    I know it is hard for some CSrs to question some traditional beliefs, and their justification without any test data or methodology is getting tiresome. Ditto "playing the man" flames.

    However all (4 or 5 sets) of my new SJ burrs needed running in, which took 10 to 15Kg. Why? Because the poor quality (far too soft) steel was not even machined properly in my view. That same softness is why the spread goes off far too quickly - at about 80kgs AFAIAC. Mind you, the bipolar distribution also creates too many fines "off the bat" when trying to grind at the finer end of espresso textures. OK for old style baskets, not so good with VSTs and hopeless if you try to access the higher extraction a VST may provide by grinding finer again. I have posted a few threads about that and added that the "traditional grinders" (which included a few others apart from my SJ) should not be critisised for that aspect as it is outside their design spec.

    Having said that, using a decent quality of tool grade steel (or some appropriate stainless grade) and the burrs last for years & tonnes. None of them need running in - if the machining was not correct in the first place, it could NEVER "run in".

    According to Mahlkonig, their ceramic burrs (i.e. like my gen2 varios) outlast their own steel burrs by a factor of three. Their steel burrs do not require running in either.

    Now, what was all that about quality & longevity?

    TampIt
    signing off this thread.

  30. #30
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    Thought I might add my 5c as I have experience with the Preciso.

    I bought a Preciso a couple years ago and initially I was annoyed as the one I received could not grind fine enough, despite calibration.

    5 senses sent me a replacement, didn't request the 'faulty' one back either. The replacement has been running since then, flawlessly.

    I have been very happy with its performance. Little to no grind retention and the grinds don't really clump at all!

    I think the Preciso has had a revision or two since mine was first model.

    One thing I find curious, I use a 6910 + preciso at home and always have almost wet pucks that don't come out whole.
    At work I use a 6910 + EM480 and the pucks are always far drier and bang out easily as a whole piece.

    Both sites have the right grind dialled for a 25-30 sec pour and both with VST baskets.

  31. #31
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Are the settings on the two machines identical? How does the air temperature and humidity at the two places compare? Have both machines been tested/calibrated for temp and pressure?


    Java "Questions, questions, questions..." phile
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    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

  32. #32
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    they are both set to factory standard settings for extraction... These are EM6910's, not exactly high end
    I just bought a HX for home so I am curious to see how it goes.

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    are you sure the dose from both grinders is the same? A wet/dry puck is mostly dose related in my experience, with a dry puck resulting from a higher dose.



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