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Thread: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

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    Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Choice have reviewed 13 grinders priced between $70 (Breville CG12) and $379 (Kitchen Aid 5KCG100).
    Poor old Rocky came in 8th.
    They scored him second lowest for ease of use because he didnt come with a container for the ground coffee. ::)

    One of the bad points for the Kitchen Aid was its "Comparatively expensive".

    Dont anyone tell them the price of my Macap.


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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1183627733/0#0 date=1183627732
    Choice have reviewed 13 grinders priced between $70 (Breville CG12) and $379 (Kitchen Aid 5KCG100).
    Poor old Rocky came in 8th.
    They scored him second lowest for ease of use because he didnt come with a container for the ground coffee. ::)

    One of the bad points for the Kitchen Aid was its "Comparatively expensive".

    Dont anyone tell them the price of my Macap.
    ..sigh >:(

    Did grind quality come into the equation anywhere?

    Having seen how they really have no idea regarding espresso machines or anything coffee related, I dont think I would follow their word on anything.





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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Here here.........

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Having seen how they really have no idea regarding espresso machines or anything coffee related, I dont think I would follow their word on anything.

    I joined up the online version before I had my first baby, 18 months ago. They were pretty spot-on with the road-tests and safety tests they put the prams, cots etc through, so I would trust them on this type of thing.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    They are OK with lots of other stuff.
    Ive had the hardcopy issues delivered for years now.

    Its just that they havr NO idea when it comes to coffee.

    Their "in-house tester/barista swears by beans roasted by small local roasters, as he finds them fresher than those available prepacked from major brands in supermarkets".

    "How we tested"
    "<snip> He made two cups of espresso using VITTORIA Oro beans and juudged the crema quality and the strength of the coffee".

    First they espouseusing freshly roasted beans then they test with Vittorio. :o
    * *

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    I guess it derives from their history of testing all forms of appliance related hardware and with the "jump on the bandwagon" approach by all the major appliance makers to get a leg into the door of the burgeoning espresso machine market, they just apply the same old criteria theyve used from decades past.... not realising that theres a whole different echelon of equipment and their owners out there who expect a hell of a lot more from their specialised coffee making hardware than the accuracy and ease of use of the latest Steam & Dry Iron to hit the market.

    Anyway, its all been said before..... where coffee is concerned Choice have absolutely no f*$#@^!g idea,

    Mal.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1183627733/0#5 date=1183640933
    I guess it derives from their history of testing all forms of appliance related hardware and with the "jump on the bandwagon" approach by all the major appliance makers to get a leg into the door of the burgeoning espresso machine market, they just apply the same old criteria theyve used from decades past.... not realising that theres a whole different echelon of equipment and their owners out there who expect a hell of a lot more from their specialised coffee making hardware than the accuracy and ease of use of the latest Steam & Dry Iron to hit the market.

    Anyway, its all been said before..... where coffee is concerned Choice have absolutely no f*$#@^!g idea,

    Mal.
    Agreed Mal...Perhaps if their testing panel of "baristi/those in the know" actually proved that they do know something (which they must :-/), their coffee writeups might be of more use. At present I see two possible uses:

    1. Nail to the back of the door of the bush dunny for obvious purposes
    2. Read for amusement value- in a similar manner to watching reruns of the three stooges...

    hmm....sorta makes me wonder if the panel are the three stooges?? :-? ;D

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1183627733/0#6 date=1183641558
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1183627733/0#5 date=1183640933
    I guess it derives from their history of testing all forms of appliance related hardware and with the "jump on the bandwagon" approach by all the major appliance makers to get a leg into the door of the burgeoning espresso machine market, they just apply the same old criteria theyve used from decades past.... not realising that theres a whole different echelon of equipment and their owners out there who expect a hell of a lot more from their specialised coffee making hardware than the accuracy and ease of use of the latest Steam & Dry Iron to hit the market.

    Anyway, its all been said before..... where coffee is concerned Choice have absolutely no f*$#@^!g idea,

    Mal.
    Agreed Mal...Perhaps if their testing panel of "baristi/those in the know" actually proved that they do know something (which they must :-/), their coffee writeups might be of more use. At present I see two possible uses:

    1. Nail to the back of the door of the bush dunny for obvious purposes
    2. Read for amusement value- in a similar manner to watching reruns of the three stooges...

    hmm....sorta makes me wonder if the panel are the three stooges?? :-? ;D

    Really Chris! Must they know something?.

    Barista seems to be the most overused professional name in the country.......
    maybe they just make coffee of sorts,now what I mean? :D

    The review must be relevant to some one, but surely those at Choice have a duty of care here and must to be accountable, to their subscribers(of which I am one), by giving informative reviews based on testing by industry relevant experts.

    And thats all Ive got to say about that. 8-)

    Craig.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    I have come to the conclusion that these reviews are based on the people who dont really know (and dont want to) and just want something that sits on the bench that they dont really want to put any real effort into.

    I suppose the better way CHOICE could have gone about this is to split their testing into two different criteria - for the above mentioned and those people such as coffeesnobs who really want to get a good quality machine that produces exceptional coffee with a little bit of effort.

    May be those of you who are subscribers and do have a little knowledge, could send them a letter asking for this and explaining a thing or two to them.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Nope, wont work Cindy....

    Lots of well known industry professionals have contacted the Choice hierarchy about the methods they use and in a nutshell, the Choice people just tell em to get lost, we know what theyre doing. So, with that kind of attitude I dont know what you can really expect :-?,

    Mal.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    If you look at the last machine review, the team comprised Rob Forsyth and the Barista Boofheads...

    I am sure Rob knows something....Yet to see any evidence that the others do.... ::)

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    You could always sign up to be a reviewer - I see in their latest mag they are seeking more reviewers.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Ill look for that reference then I might make the offer.
    They are only a few minutes down the road.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007


    Trouble is, if a CS goes to review the typical sort of grinders and espresso machines that most people on a low low budget buy, there wont be much to choose from at the conclusion of the review.

    Not everybody can afford a $700 Sylvia or EM6910 - let alone a $600 grinder like a Macap or Mazzer.


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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by tempestv8 link=1183627733/0#13 date=1183987269
    Trouble is, if a CS goes to review the typical sort of grinders and espresso machines that most people on a low low budget buy, there wont be much to choose from at the conclusion of the review.

    Not everybody can afford a $700 Sylvia or EM6910 - let alone a $600 grinder like a Macap or Mazzer.
    Agreed, however its about time the team at Choice removed their collective heads from their collective culos and and acknowledged that not every domestic coffee drinker wants a spice cutter- or a thermoblock Krups for that matter.

    Review the cheap stuff- but acknowledge that these are plunger grinders or for pressurised baskets at best. I wonder how many newbies here have had to ditch something Choice recommended because it is plain unsuitable for espresso? :-?

    CSer types represent a huge market and they simply ignore it/us...They could also bounce barista boofheads et al and put someone on the end of the grouphandle capable of using fresh coffee in a consistent manner so that the results actually mean something....

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007


    Yes, agreed, Chris.

    Choice should categorise their reviews to different audiences to better differentiate the models. So those consumers who are totally happy with supermarket preground can get a review on their "crema enhancing" machines or the grinders that are used for that sort of machine.

    And those consumers who are only interested in drinking coffee made from freshly ground beans can have a proper review of the true espresso grade grinders that would be a good match to their espresso machines.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Hello, I notice that review included the BREVILLE BarAroma and the Breville CG12. Could anybody tell me how these models did in the review? The BarAroma is getting good reviews on a US coffee site for this price bracket.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    LMC suffice to say most of us here disagree with the Choice article.

    The BarAroma and the CG12 never get mentioned when someone asks us about good grinders.

    You gets what you pays for.
    The Bar Aroma is listed as "Breville BarAroma Coffee & Spice Grinder BCG450" $170.
    Spice Grinder???
    Need I say more.

    "Breville CG12 Café Roma Coffee Mill" $70.
    I think the burrs on my grinder cost more than that.

    The review was done using a Breville Café Roma espresso machine as a reference.

    The CG12 came last.
    Considering its name suggests its the partner of the espresso machine used in the tests, it didnt do very well at all.
    They said it cant grind fine enough for espresso and the hopper lid lifts off when there are a few beans left, and coffee particles fly out.

    The BarAroma got a good write up.
    They said it was amongst the quietest and reckon it grinds fine enough for espresso (for the Café Roma at least).
    Easy to adjust the grind and easy to clean.
    No bad points according to Choice.

    Out of the 13 grinders tested they recommended 5.

    The BarAroma got 5th place.

    The top 4 all said they were burr grinders.
    I dont know if the BarAroma has burrs.
    When I see Spice Grinder I think blade.
    Id be very careful if I were you and check this before parting with any cash.

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    Senior Member speleomike's Avatar
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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    I once heard this and it must be true, Im sure :-)

    Choice magazine once tested car tyres. They carefully choose to test Bridgestone, Dunlop, Goodyear and Pirelli and fitted them to a standard test car with an experienced driver. At the end of the test they concluded that they couldnt really recommend any one in particular. The Bridgestone and Dunlop on the inside tended to leave the road surface on tight bends and the Goodyear and Pirelli on the outside squealed and skidded :-)

    Mike

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    That would be funny if I didnt half believe it to be true.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by speleomike link=1183627733/15#18 date=1188739620
    I once heard this and it must be true, Im sure :-)

    Choice magazine once tested card tyres. They carefully choose to test Bridgestone, Dunlop, Goodyear and Pirelli and fitted them to a standard test car with an experienced driver. At the end of the test they concluded that they couldnt really recommend any one in particular. The Bridgestone and Dunlop on the inside tended to leave the road surface on tight bends and the Goodyear and Pirelli on the outside squealed and skidded :-)

    Mike
    Recommending car tyres is almost impossible.

    To name but a few variables:
    tyre size and profile
    run-in time
    wheel width
    wheel weight
    tyre pressure
    car weight
    car suspension geometry
    wheel alignment
    tyre temperature
    road temperature
    road surface type
    road wetness

    And then you have to define what your test criteria is... (braking? cornering grip? noise?)

    Its like asking "Whats the best bean for making coffee?" without regarding brewing technique, roast method or profile, grinder, machine, temperature, etc.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt King link=1183627733/15#20 date=1188771993
    Quote Originally Posted by speleomike link=1183627733/15#18 date=1188739620
    I once heard this and it must be true, Im sure :-)

    Choice magazine once tested card tyres. They carefully choose to test Bridgestone, Dunlop, Goodyear and Pirelli and fitted them to a standard test car with an experienced driver. At the end of the test they concluded that they couldnt really recommend any one in particular. The Bridgestone and Dunlop on the inside tended to leave the road surface on tight bends and the Goodyear and Pirelli on the outside squealed and skidded :-)

    Mike
    Recommending car tyres is almost impossible.

    To name but a few variables:
    tyre size and profile
    run-in time
    wheel width
    wheel weight
    tyre pressure
    car weight
    car suspension geometry
    wheel alignment
    tyre temperature
    road temperature
    road surface type
    road wetness

    And then you have to define what your test criteria is... (braking? cornering grip? noise?)

    Its like asking "Whats the best bean for making coffee?" without regarding brewing technique, roast method or profile, grinder, machine, temperature, etc.
    Yes, but I think the post was more a commentary on how Choice do their evaluations rather than car tyres.
    IE: They put one of each on the car, took it for one test drive and wrote their detailed report.

    In last years coffee machine review, one criteria a machine LOST points for was - "Portafilter too heavy".

    Brett.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy link=1183627733/15#21 date=1188778180
    Yes, but I think the post was more a commentary on how Choice do their evaluations rather than car tyres.
    IE: They put one of each on the car, took it for one test drive and wrote their detailed report.

    In last years coffee machine review, one criteria a machine LOST points for was - "Portafilter too heavy".

    Brett.
    I got that. I was just implying that a null verdict isnt always a bad thing. It had nothing to do with coffee.

    hmm, I could use a coffee about now... :-/

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy link=1183627733/15#21 date=1188778180
    one criteria a machine LOST points for was - "Portafilter too heavy".
    That seems fair to me. *The car would tip over if you used a heavy portafilter on the outside. *;D

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by mylesau link=1183627733/15#23 date=1188784702
    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy link=1183627733/15#21 date=1188778180
    one criteria a machine LOST points for was - "Portafilter too heavy".
    That seems fair to me. *The car would tip over if you used a heavy portafilter on the outside. *;D
    ;D ;D

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    Appreciate your post thundergod. I know what they say about grinders and understand about the quality. I understand the general population of coffeesnobs opinions with regard to low end equipment. The thing is I have had my coffee machine 1.5yr now without a grinder and buying various brands of preground coffee. I have a Breville Cafe Roma and Im pretty happy with the brew I make given my cheap setup. The cost of preground beans and the fact they are ground so coarsely, freshness, etc etc. I am looking at a low end grinder to improve things a little. The BarAroma is a burr and given I am no time soon going to be able to afford a more expensive setup Im thinking this may be my inbetween. I would post the other reviews on it but Im not sure if other coffee site URLs are permitted.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    We can find the other reviews if we want.

    Id still recommend spending more and getting a good grinder.
    Youll improve things more than a little.

    If thats out of the equation then at least Ive answered your question and you know which one of the two NOT to get.

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    Re: Grinder Review - Choice - July 2007

    QUOTE from Chris: " not every domestic coffee drinker wants a spice cutter- or a thermoblock Krups for that matter. "

    Hey, I had a Krups & spice grinder as my very first setup! :-[ & i thought i wanted it ::)

    PS anyone want a Krups Novo 4000??
    Cheap ;D




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