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Thread: Baratza Sette 270Wi reliability

  1. #51
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    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Super dodgy ex coffeesnobs supplier thatís doing it. Only they are offering that price for 1.
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  2. #52
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Our "Old Mate" is at it again, it would seem...

    Mal.
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  3. #53
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Our "Old Mate" is at it again, it would seem...

    Mal.
    Got it in one Mal, you would have to be a mug to deal with him.

  4. #54
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    Just the sort of this our 'ol mate would say...

    You know what? Not even at $400 with a freebie for parts, would I want one. Once burned, forever shy of the brand.
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  5. #55
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    Just the sort of this our 'ol mate would say...

    You know what? Not even at $400 with a freebie for parts, would I want one. Once burned, forever shy of the brand.
    Spot on Caffeinator, whats the old saying? if it walks like a duck.

    The Sette has a (well deserved) miserable reputation, last grinder I would consider.
    Walks like a duck.jpg

  6. #56
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    Inherent in new designs are potential new problems. Unfortunately some companies (like Microsoft) treat their users as test lab rats. Personally, I would add Lyle at Baratza to that nefarious list. In Baratza's defence, I would add that their level of customer service is outstanding, and they bend over backwards to sort all issues out.

    Why? Gen1 Varios were highly unreliable, then they gave the design to Ditting and the gen2 became a hybrid with a Ditting commercial module and the quiet compact design of the Baratza. Overall, it is not only a much better grinder in terms of particle spread, it is also very reliable. I bought one of the Swiss made Mahlkoenig variant of the Vario. I now have three of them - Nov 13, March 14 (both gen2's) and Jan 16 (a gen3). All three are (subject to a "non idiot environment") bulletproof. One of them has now done well over 300Kg (plenty of time in various cafes, however those staff are careful with all their gear) and the original ceramic burrs are still indistinguishable from the gen3 - which would be lucky to have done 10Kg. For home use, that would make it a lifetime investment. Sometimes I feel it is a tad noisier than my other two, however when on the bench together it just sounds a bit different. Whether that is wear remains to be seen.

    The early Settes were also unreliable (and so, so noisy...). A Qld CS friend had an early one, and it has been replaced under warranty to the latest Sette "Wi" and so far so good - although it has only been a few months. It is a lot better in the cuppa, quieter and, in his words "Just plain better in every way" than his old one. At this time, it is not known whether the newer Settes will go the distance, however it may. At least Baratza came to the party in a good way.

    As long as Baratza keep up their combo of service and continual improvement it is likely the Sette will eventually be regarded as a good long term grinder.

    In both cases Baratza have significantly "moved the goalposts" of coffee grinders in terms of particle retention (and performance in the cuppa in the case of the Vario, I cannot comment on the newer Sette). Other makers are now playing catch up. It also opened the field to some new kids on the block - notably the Niche.

    Another "new kid on the block" with similar attributes is the Decent espresso maker. Although some minor early gremlins were not as severe as either the Vario or the Sette, the first few DE1's out the door had some problems. John at Decent has also been providing great service whilst continually modifying / improving the design to get better performance and reliability out of the machine. "Never buy version one of anything" is pretty good advice for the risk averse. I have bought a V1.1 DE1 and, although not perfect, it has been giving me great coffee using a completely new technology (no thermocoils or boilers, it uses a mixing valve and is computer controlled).

    The DE1 is another design that will almost certainly move the goalposts of espresso machines. Currently I am getting better coffee than my manual lever (possibly due to the proprietary size of the inferior baskets in the manual lever) in a "no hassle" simple process... and I can do multiple shots in succession as a bonus.

    It comes down to whether you want the field to remain static or to progress. If you want progress there will be stumbles along the way. If you want revolutionary progress there is likely to be even larger stumbles.

    Guys like me are also comfortable in investing in new technology if we think it is worthwhile in the longer term. A quick example - I bought one of the first (serial number 006) gas assisted solar hot water systems in 1983 (a Morris White for those interested) for about an extra $1,000 premium over the electric equivalent at the time. I insisted on a marine grade stainless steel tank, otherwise I knew it was really a prototype. That original system is still going flawlessly, although I suspect the pure copper panels must be nearing end of life shortly. That investment by a few of my friends & myself meant the whole technology was eventually adopted worldwide and saved a truckload of greenhouse gas emissions. Ironically, now I have my own solar PV panels, I will be going back to an electric booster in my new build to lower greenhouse gas emissions (and bills) even further.

    So while I totally agree with anyone reporting reliability issues with any new technology, a lower level of destructive criticism would serve us all well over the longer term.


    Enjoy your cuppa - and just think, if guys like La Pavoni, Gaggia, Baratza, Decent et al hadn't stuck their necks out we would all have a much poorer cuppa for our tastebuds to encounter...

    TampIt

  7. #57
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    No mate, more to do with a clear lack of respect, especially as a newcomer...

    Mal.
    CafeLotta and MokaKing like this.

  8. #58
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    Inherent in new designs are potential new problems. Unfortunately some companies (like Microsoft) treat their users as test lab rats. Personally, I would add Lyle at Baratza to that nefarious list. In Baratza's defence, I would add that their level of customer service is outstanding, and they bend over backwards to sort all issues out.

    Why? Gen1 Varios were highly unreliable, then they gave the design to Ditting and the gen2 became a hybrid with a Ditting commercial module and the quiet compact design of the Baratza. Overall, it is not only a much better grinder in terms of particle spread, it is also very reliable. I bought one of the Swiss made Mahlkoenig variant of the Vario. I now have three of them - Nov 13, March 14 (both gen2's) and Jan 16 (a gen3). All three are (subject to a "non idiot environment") bulletproof. One of them has now done well over 300Kg (plenty of time in various cafes, however those staff are careful with all their gear) and the original ceramic burrs are still indistinguishable from the gen3 - which would be lucky to have done 10Kg. For home use, that would make it a lifetime investment. Sometimes I feel it is a tad noisier than my other two, however when on the bench together it just sounds a bit different. Whether that is wear remains to be seen.

    The early Settes were also unreliable (and so, so noisy...). A Qld CS friend had an early one, and it has been replaced under warranty to the latest Sette "Wi" and so far so good - although it has only been a few months. It is a lot better in the cuppa, quieter and, in his words "Just plain better in every way" than his old one. At this time, it is not known whether the newer Settes will go the distance, however it may. At least Baratza came to the party in a good way.

    As long as Baratza keep up their combo of service and continual improvement it is likely the Sette will eventually be regarded as a good long term grinder.

    In both cases Baratza have significantly "moved the goalposts" of coffee grinders in terms of particle retention (and performance in the cuppa in the case of the Vario, I cannot comment on the newer Sette). Other makers are now playing catch up. It also opened the field to some new kids on the block - notably the Niche.

    Another "new kid on the block" with similar attributes is the Decent espresso maker. Although some minor early gremlins were not as severe as either the Vario or the Sette, the first few DE1's out the door had some problems. John at Decent has also been providing great service whilst continually modifying / improving the design to get better performance and reliability out of the machine. "Never buy version one of anything" is pretty good advice for the risk averse. I have bought a V1.1 DE1 and, although not perfect, it has been giving me great coffee using a completely new technology (no thermocoils or boilers, it uses a mixing valve and is computer controlled).

    The DE1 is another design that will almost certainly move the goalposts of espresso machines. Currently I am getting better coffee than my manual lever (possibly due to the proprietary size of the inferior baskets in the manual lever) in a "no hassle" simple process... and I can do multiple shots in succession as a bonus.

    It comes down to whether you want the field to remain static or to progress. If you want progress there will be stumbles along the way. If you want revolutionary progress there is likely to be even larger stumbles.

    Guys like me are also comfortable in investing in new technology if we think it is worthwhile in the longer term. A quick example - I bought one of the first (serial number 006) gas assisted solar hot water systems in 1983 (a Morris White for those interested) for about an extra $1,000 premium over the electric equivalent at the time. I insisted on a marine grade stainless steel tank, otherwise I knew it was really a prototype. That original system is still going flawlessly, although I suspect the pure copper panels must be nearing end of life shortly. That investment by a few of my friends & myself meant the whole technology was eventually adopted worldwide and saved a truckload of greenhouse gas emissions. Ironically, now I have my own solar PV panels, I will be going back to an electric booster in my new build to lower greenhouse gas emissions (and bills) even further.

    So while I totally agree with anyone reporting reliability issues with any new technology, a lower level of destructive criticism would serve us all well over the longer term.


    Enjoy your cuppa - and just think, if guys like La Pavoni, Gaggia, Baratza, Decent et al hadn't stuck their necks out we would all have a much poorer cuppa for our tastebuds to encounter...

    TampIt
    Very well said mate. For sure, it's really unfortunate for earlier models and also not great to have customers as the main testers, but like you said, for such an innovative and new design there will be kinks to work out, they really seem dedicated to improvement and fantastic customer service.

    Like I've said, I'm incredibly happy with my 270Wi and it's fully exceeded my expectations. But that being said, if it crashes then it crashes, I'm under no illusions that it absolutely won't.
    Dimal and magnafunk like this.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MokaKing View Post
    Do you plonkers still think i'm...
    ...a troll with a bad attitude?

    Yep. I do...

    Perhaps you might try this forum instead?
    Dimal, Yelta, CafeLotta and 2 others like this.

  10. #60
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Okay, everyone has blown-off some steam.

    A week ago someone called ReefKitchards trolled, called people nasty names and got banned the same afternoon. We don't need people like that here.

    MokaKing is the replacement account for ReefKitchards and I hoped that with an account change maybe there would be an improved attitude and less trolling.

    MokaKing stated in a deleted post in this thread "I'm on here for the giggles, and to sell a grinder. You'll see my ad soon"
    I can only assume "giggles" is translation for trolling and according to the few rules we have in the for sale section we don't encourage people to join just to flog stuff. Ebay or Gumtree might be better suited to that sale than our community.

    MokaKing has posted other legitimate questions and appears to want to learn something so I'm more than happy to encourage him to keep posts about coffee and coffee processes and less about having "giggles". MokaKing may or may not be a visitor from the past (he was certainly ReefKitchards) but as long as his content improves we have no reason to ban this account.
    Dimal, Javaphile and MokaKing like this.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Very well said mate. For sure, it's really unfortunate for earlier models and also not great to have customers as the main testers, but like you said, for such an innovative and new design there will be kinks to work out, they really seem dedicated to improvement and fantastic customer service.

    Like I've said, I'm incredibly happy with my 270Wi and it's fully exceeded my expectations. But that being said, if it crashes then it crashes, I'm under no illusions that it absolutely won't.

    G'day simonsk8r

    I know exactly how you feel about "if it crashes then it crashes".

    I largely bought my second Vario as a spare after reading so many negative reports about reliability. Needless to say, after a few years it has been really useful when providing different roasts for different tastes (especially at parties) so it was not a total waste. Hence the third one when a near & dear friend bemoaned the need to go permanently onto decaf.

    I have already decided that if my DE1 goes terminal I will buy a V1.3 as a replacement while John sorts out the current one - which I feel sure he will for a reasonable fee and / or warranty.

    If you are walking into an early version of any technology with your eyes open, you can expect a few glitches. Oh, I had forgotten one - when my gas assisted solar hot water system was fairly new we had one of Bentley's infamous "willy willies" which blew the "tabbed heater doors" open and the gas pilot out. Morris White's tech came over, scratched his head for a while ("I didn't expect that" was his comment) and put small barrel bolts on the doors to stop it happening again. They also retrofitted all the other ones for nix. Other than that, the system is 36 years old and untouched - pretty impressive for a prototype! Those "tabbed heater doors" are exactly the same design as a friend's 150 litre Vulcan gas heater tank today. They only fail if you have them on an exposed roof in a windy place - like my old house at Bentley... Some problems in new tech are just not easily foreseeable.

    Glad your Sette Wi is working well for you, hopefully the early Sette teething problems are now history.

    Enjoy your cuppa - I am currently savouring a stunning Ecuadorian medium roasted SO as I write this.


    TampIt
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  12. #62
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    G'day simonsk8r

    I know exactly how you feel about "if it crashes then it crashes".

    I largely bought my second Vario as a spare after reading so many negative reports about reliability. Needless to say, after a few years it has been really useful when providing different roasts for different tastes (especially at parties) so it was not a total waste. Hence the third one when a near & dear friend bemoaned the need to go permanently onto decaf.

    I have already decided that if my DE1 goes terminal I will buy a V1.3 as a replacement while John sorts out the current one - which I feel sure he will for a reasonable fee and / or warranty.

    If you are walking into an early version of any technology with your eyes open, you can expect a few glitches. Oh, I had forgotten one - when my gas assisted solar hot water system was fairly new we had one of Bentley's infamous "willy willies" which blew the "tabbed heater doors" open and the gas pilot out. Morris White's tech came over, scratched his head for a while ("I didn't expect that" was his comment) and put small barrel bolts on the doors to stop it happening again. They also retrofitted all the other ones for nix. Other than that, the system is 36 years old and untouched - pretty impressive for a prototype! Those "tabbed heater doors" are exactly the same design as a friend's 150 litre Vulcan gas heater tank today. They only fail if you have them on an exposed roof in a windy place - like my old house at Bentley... Some problems in new tech are just not easily foreseeable.

    Glad your Sette Wi is working well for you, hopefully the early Sette teething problems are now history.

    Enjoy your cuppa - I am currently savouring a stunning Ecuadorian medium roasted SO as I write this.


    TampIt
    Wow sounds delicious, never had an Ecuadorian coffee before!

    Yeah that's it, I took the risk. Did alot of research about the new model, just loved everything about it, so thought I'd give it a shot
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Wow sounds delicious, never had an Ecuadorian coffee before!

    Yeah that's it, I took the risk. Did alot of research about the new model, just loved everything about it, so thought I'd give it a shot
    G'day simonsk8r

    Ecuadorian coffee: I had never had one before GC Bibra Lake (not a sponsor, hence the initial) purchased a small shipment as a trial. I bought 500g on the basis that I trust them and we have similar quality standards. Utterly stunning - very small, dense bean (i.e. a bit of a grinder tester) which actually rivals all my favourite coffees whilst being yet another different taste. I went back for seconds (see below). Taste: as unique as Sulawesi Blue in the sense that I know of no near comparison in the cuppa. I will not insult you with the labels "insight" as 5 different coffee tasters would make 5 different comments anyway. FWIW, I would have initially picked it as another Ethiopian heirloom which I had not encountered before - merely a few thousand clicks and a continent away... No way would I have suspected it was a northwestern South America coffee (or America at all). Just shows that great coffees are popping up all over the planet (Panama Geisha anyone?).

    Bad news: GC Bibra Lake (i.e. Perth) has just run out. I bought the last Kg a couple of days back and one of the roasters decided to take the last 400(ish) grams home for himself.
    Good News: They reckon the new harvest will be available in a couple of months so keep your eyes peeled. Knowing Andy, I would not be surprised at all if he gets some of the next harvest.

    "I took the risk": If no one does, the whole field atrophies. If I feel it is a genuine advance, count me in.


    TampIt
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