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Thread: Which baratza?

  1. #1
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    Which baratza?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Ok, just scored myself a Lelit PL41TEM and figure I should upgrade up from my trusty EM0480 grinder. Looking at the Baratza Sette 270, but I notice there is a Sette 30AP model as well which is a bit cheaper. The 270 looks great in terms of features, maybe even overkill, but I'm wondering what the functional differences between the two are? The 270 worth the higher cost?

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaythefordman View Post
    Ok, just scored myself a Lelit PL41TEM and figure I should upgrade up from my trusty EM0480 grinder. Looking at the Baratza Sette 270, but I notice there is a Sette 30AP model as well which is a bit cheaper. The 270 looks great in terms of features, maybe even overkill, but I'm wondering what the functional differences between the two are? The 270 worth the higher cost?
    Suggest a bit more research Jay, Baratza seem to have more than their share of problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Suggest a bit more research Jay, Baratza seem to have more than their share of problems.
    I've read a little, thought that with the new models that they have fixed up a lot of the issues?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Suggest a bit more research Jay, Baratza seem to have more than their share of problems.
    I read a comment somewhere that you should always buy Baratza grinders in pairs, so that you at least have one running at any given time.

    That said, they are relatively inexpensive and offer good bang for the buck. You can buy 6 or more Settes for the price of one Etzmax!

  5. #5
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    The main difference between the 270 and the 30AP is that the 270 series has 9 coarse adjustment steps, but then has an additional 30 fine adjustment steps for each of the 9 coarse steps (totalling 270 possible grind settings, hence the name). The 270 series is designed for the whole espresso to manual brewing (pour overs, plunger etc) range. The 30AP only has the 30 fine adjustment steps, no coarse steps, so only 30 possible grind settings. The 30AP is apparently more suited to espresso than manual brewing but can apparently do either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    I read a comment somewhere that you should always buy Baratza grinders in pairs, so that you at least have one running at any given time
    Better off just to buy pears I'd reckon....
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    The main difference between the 270 and the 30AP is that the 270 series has 9 coarse adjustment steps, but then has an additional 30 fine adjustment steps for each of the 9 coarse steps (totalling 270 possible grind settings, hence the name).
    It's the other way around: 31 coarse steps (marked 31 to 1 on the upper ring with detents) and 9 positions in the fine adjustment (marked A to I on the lower ring, no detents). Assuming the total adjustment of the fine ring equals one step of the coarse ring (so for example 15, A = 14, I) there are thus 249 possible settings.

    https://www.baratza.com/wp-content/u...ette270-en.pdf
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 29th April 2019 at 02:55 PM.

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    Senior Member deegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaythefordman View Post
    I've read a little, thought that with the new models that they have fixed up a lot of the issues?
    In reply to your original question, one difference is the adjustment range - well covered by level3ninja (and Lyrebird) above.

    A second major one is is that the burr holder/adjustment assembly of the AP30 is mostly plastic, and the 270 is mostly metal.

    I had a Bararza Preciso for a while. It had plastic burr holders which were prone to breaking. It had micro adjustments too, which were useless, because the entire assembly was plastic, and rather flimsy. The flexing, and wearing of the plastic parts, required frequent re-calibration until it eventually ran out of adjustment.

    They may have learned from this, because the Preciso was dropped from their range. However, I would not buy an AP30 without a long hard look at the burr carrier/housing assembly to ensure that it is solid and strong. There's nothing wrong with plastic if it's well made, and up to the task.

    Baratza do make most of their grinders to a price point, and seem to expect that users will be prepared for some DIY repairs, or to send them back to the factory from time to time.

    It's also obvious from their track record that they use the buyers of new models as beta testers. If I was tempted to buy another Baratza I would not do so until that model had been on the market for a couple of years and all the initial design/build problems had been sorted out.

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    Ok, thanks for the replies. If not the Sette, what other options am I worth looking at? bear in mind I prefer to keep a handle on costs?

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Yep got the fine and coarse arse about.

    Jay what's your budget? We can only guess how big a handle is.

  11. #11
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    Forget the Baratza, seems like they just aren't made to last. Look at the Eureka Mignon range, only a little bit more in cost, but much better all round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Yep got the fine and coarse arse about.

    Jay what's your budget? We can only guess how big a handle is.
    Ah, look, originally <500, but I am now giving me some wiggle room

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    Hi Jay, around $500, Macap m2m best bang for buck grinder. IMO. Chippy
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  14. #14
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Macap M2M or M2D, Compak K3 Push or K3 Touch will be under or close to budget. Settle 270Wi has had good reports so far, haven't heard the same problems with it as with the 270W. Mahlkoenig Vario is a bit above budget but is great bang for buck.

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    Senior Member Brewster's Avatar
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    Hi Jay.
    If you are open to buying a used machine ("near new"), check out this one in the Coffee Hardware for Sale section:
    https://coffeesnobs.com.au/coffee-hardware-sale/51782-eureka-mignon-coffee-grinder-near-new-330-a.html
    IMO, this machine is being offered at a fantastic price and is well within your budget.
    I have owned one for many years, they are great "bang for buck" machine and should be a good match up for your Lelit.
    Cheers
    Mal
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewster View Post
    Hi Jay.
    If you are open to buying a used machine ("near new"), check out this one in the Coffee Hardware for Sale section:
    https://coffeesnobs.com.au/coffee-hardware-sale/51782-eureka-mignon-coffee-grinder-near-new-330-a.html
    IMO, this machine is being offered at a fantastic price and is well within your budget.
    I have owned one for many years, they are great "bang for buck" machine and should be a good match up for your Lelit.
    Cheers
    Mal
    I would be all over that, but it looks like I will have to join the queue :/

    Quote Originally Posted by chippy View Post
    Hi Jay, around $500, Macap m2m best bang for buck grinder. IMO. Chippy
    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Macap M2M or M2D, Compak K3 Push or K3 Touch will be under or close to budget. Settle 270Wi has had good reports so far, haven't heard the same problems with it as with the 270W. Mahlkoenig Vario is a bit above budget but is great bang for buck.
    Thanks. Will suss

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    Question

    It looks like Baratza 270Wi was released mid 2018 - most reviews are posted back there. It means it's been around for about 10 months or so.
    Baratza claims they fixed all know issue from previous models. But I would expect any other claims about any newer model from any manufacturer.

    I am using Breville Smart Grinder at this moment.
    And from time to time I want to get 270Wi.

    I am still not convinced it's going to be a noticeable upgrade.

    Also I am open to discussion about any other grinder with low retention, timer dosing and and reasonable price (under $1300-ish).

    Low retention because I make 1-2 shots in the morning and 1-2 shots in the evening so purging a lot of coffee twice a day sounds a bit wasteful.
    Timer based dosing because it has to be an easy upgrade for family members (aka WAF)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbi View Post
    It looks like Baratza 270Wi was released mid 2018 - most reviews are posted back there. It means it's been around for about 10 months or so.
    Baratza claims they fixed all know issue from previous models. But I would expect any other claims about any newer model from any manufacturer.

    I am using Breville Smart Grinder at this moment.
    And from time to time I want to get 270Wi.

    I am still not convinced it's going to be a noticeable upgrade.

    Also I am open to discussion about any other grinder with low retention, timer dosing and and reasonable price (under $1300-ish).

    Low retention because I make 1-2 shots in the morning and 1-2 shots in the evening so purging a lot of coffee twice a day sounds a bit wasteful.
    Timer based dosing because it has to be an easy upgrade for family members (aka WAF)
    G'day gerbi

    I have compared the Sette a few times to 480s, Smartgrinders and Mahlkoenig Varios.

    You just nailed why I now have three Swiss made (by Ditting) Mahlkoenig Varios (2 * gen2's and 1 * gen3) at about $700 each (when I bought them starting in 2013). Retention is close to zero and the "post gen1" Vario has the most even particle spread of any domestic level grinder below $3K I know (... and I know at least 50 of them, plus way too many commercial ones - some of which I lived with for a while). Be warned, the ceramic burrs are really only suitable for the Turkish to espresso grinding range. If you need to do it all, go for the big Dittings.

    Originally I bought a Vario for my light / medium SO's. Then I added one for friends' dark roasts and finally one for "SWMBO decaf". The decaf one now has the optional steel burrs and is used for pourovers / Rommelsbachers (stainless "Carmencita" or Moka Pot done electronically using high quality German stainless) / my modded "chemical stirrer plunger" / cold drip & steep. I didn't expect such coarse grinding textures to respond much to a more even particle spread, however if anything the difference in flavour is even greater than using the standard ceramic burrs within the espresso range.

    FYI, mine are the plain "Vario Home" as I grind directly into the p/f. The digital timer is so accurate that the "W" model would just slow me down by grinding into a separate container. The Forte is a reinforced version of a gen1 (1.5?) which does not perform as well as the gen2 for espresso. Oh, and the K30 Vario is utterly unrelated (and I confess to personally disliking it as it does not perform well enough for my tastes).

    The only other relevant info is that Baratza Vario is supposed to be US and Canada, whilst the similar Mahlkoenig Vario is rest of world. So the Baratza must be a parallel import into Oz - with all the potential warranty issues that implies.

    Enjoy your cuppa

    TampIt
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  19. #19
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    Ive had a couple of Vario's in my time and loved them, still using one now (gen2) for pourover.
    I did try a Sette 270 when they first came out and it's simply just not up to the standard of old.

    If you can find a Compak K3 or similar in your budget i'd go something like that over the Sette

  20. #20
    Junior Member davltay's Avatar
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    I have the Mahlkonig vario, itís awesome. I also have the Ditting KR804 but the vario home has less retention.

    My only gripe with it is the looks.

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    Hmmm, interesting.

    How do identify Vario Home Gen 2 vs Gen 3?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbi View Post
    Hmmm, interesting.

    How do identify Vario Home Gen 2 vs Gen 3?
    Check which one has been in the bin longer? #brevillesmartgrinder2?

    Agreed with those above. I'd choose a Mignon or M2M as well.
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    +1 on the Macap M2 series, preferably but not necessarily the micrometric adjuster version.
    FWIW I am an incredibly biased owner of a V2 M2D which I purchased after months of research (tiny bit OCD, me). Durability and build quality are commercial grade, pretty quiet in operation and very tidy for an on-demand grinder
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbi View Post
    Hmmm, interesting.

    How do identify Vario Home Gen 2 vs Gen 3?
    Gen1 - the three small buttons on the lower portion of the front panel have labels like "espresso / french press / ???" (it has been too long to remember). The gen2 and gen3 have numbers 1,2,3 (as all three buttons are configurable, that makes a lot more sense).

    The only difference I know between my early gen3 and my gen2s - the gen3's have a p/f holder which weighs a ton and is solid metal. In my gen3 it has definite homicidal tendencies as it will launch itself at my feet it the grinder is tilted ever so slightly forward. According to several other gen3 owners, that is a one off.

    The only reliability factors I have run into are people related to Conan the Barbarian who do not read manuals - if you set the micro lever finer without running the motor you are straining the mechanism by trying to compress the beans between the burrs. That will pop the adjusters out - a 5 minute fix with a ph#2 screwdriver.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    Check which one has been in the bin longer? #brevillesmartgrinder2?

    Agreed with those above. I'd choose a Mignon or M2M as well.
    Another easy comparison.

    Compare a Swiss Ditting commercial grinding module (i.e. under the bonnet of the Vario gen2 and gen3) which comes standard with long life ceramic burrs - which last 3 times longer than their own steel burrs according to Mahlkoenig - to either of those two grinders at the same working life and see which one is in better shape... No contest.

    Why? My older Vario gen2 did 200+Kgs before I stopped counting and has done about another 6 weeks at 40Kg per week since then. It served as a backup grinder at a friend's cafe when their SJ needed yet another set of burrs at the 80Kg mark until they finally replaced it with a big Ditting. That's correct - my older Vario has never needed a single part and has seen off 5 sets of SJ burrs in the same cafe environment. That Vario has no apparent wear even under a microscope. The SJ's only advantage is a larger chamber (excess grounds) so it (just) gets through one working day before the chamber is filled. The Vario's chamber needs emptying every 2 hours. In every other way (including much lower wastage) the Vario wins hands down - especially if you actually want to taste the coffee. Considering that is an environment in which most home grinders would be lucky to see the end of the first week before they overheated / blew their brains out / clogged up severely or whatever the Vario is a pretty tough little beastie.

    Not too shabby for a quiet, compact, low grind retention "domestic grinder" with a really even particle spread in the Turkish to espresso grinding range.

    Considering I would have bought close to 50 grinders over the years (I culled 17 commercial grinders out of my shed in one hit a while back - including 3 shot examples of one of the two grinders you mentioned) the only other "name brand grinder" (i.e. not Ditting or Mahlkoenig) I would prefer to use in a cafe is a Mazzer Major+ (and none of its little brothers). For home use until some other grinder can deliver the same mix of low wastage, compact size, quietness and even particle spread the Vario surprisingly remains without a real competitor. Perhaps the Niche - although I haven't tried one yet.

    TampIt

  25. #25
    Junior Member davltay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post

    The only reliability factors I have run into are people related to Conan the Barbarian who do not read manuals - if you set the micro lever finer without running the motor you are straining the mechanism by trying to compress the beans between the burrs. That will pop the adjusters out - a 5 minute fix with a ph#2 screwdriver.



    TampIt
    I have one minor problem the hopper plastic clip must be broken so it stops grinding as the hopper rotates from that safety mechanism on the inside

  26. #26
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    Thanks for the advice guys, ended up grabbing Jimz Eureka Mignon advertised here, deal was too good to pass up
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaythefordman View Post
    Thanks for the advice guys, ended up grabbing Jimz Eureka Mignon advertised here, deal was too good to pass up
    Great to see.
    Enjoy



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