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Thread: Lagom P64

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    Lagom P64

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Who's ordering one? This new grinder looks really good and it's made in Melbourne!
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    Nice to see an Aussie designed alternative to the Niche, though somewhat more expensive.


    Are you sure it is made in Melbourne? I thought their gear was made in China?

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    I donít think itís a Niche alternative, itís more like a smaller, cheaper alternative to the Monolith Flat.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Designed in Melbourne made in China I believe.

    Like so many products we see nowadays, the designers make a big thing about where it was designed, you have to search the fine print to discover where its made.

    Seems only a few months back the (Niche) was flavour of the month, been usurped already.
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    Quite pricey indeed by the time you add in shipping and GST.

    From Lagom -

    "Pre-order starts now! 7th September, 2019, 08:00 AEST.

    This is the pre-order for one unit of Lagom P64 for late November delivery.

    The deposit for pre-order will be a non-refundable $600 USD, with the remaining balance due when the grinder is ready for shipping.

    The total price of Lagom P64 will be $1475 for Standard Burrs, and $1585 for SSP Red Speed Burrs.

    Please Note: Price shown in US Dollars. "

    https://www.home-barista.com/grinder...-o-t60117.html

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Hmmm...

    Think I would rather have a Niche to be honest.

    Mal.
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    I was thinking about it, but thought too long. Theyíre sold out,
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Hmmm...

    Think I would rather have a Niche to be honest.

    Mal.
    For home use youíre probably right Mal, but this is quite different to the Niche and not really a direct competitor.

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    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Seems only a few months back the (Niche) was flavour of the month, been usurped already.
    niche will remain my flavour being $1k cheaper

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    I ordered one! Silver with SSP burrs.

    I would have liked a Kafatec Monolith, but they are a bit out of my price bracket. I'm guessing this should be a good consolation though.
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    For home use you’re probably right Mal, but this is quite different to the Niche and not really a direct competitor.
    So, what do you reckon the target user group would be mate?
    Doesn't really seem to be a truly commercial proposition...

    Mal.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    So, what do you reckon the target user group would be mate?
    Doesn't really seem to be a truly commercial proposition...

    Mal.
    Yeah I wondered a bit about that as well. I canít be 100% sure, but I think thereís probably two main targets. The first is the high end home user, the real coffee geek that wants a single dosing, flat burr grinder, but canít afford the Monolith Flat. The other is probably roasteries for quality control. I canít see that it would ever go into a cafe for retail use, but could be quite useful in a QC or cupping capacity for a roaster. Again it could be an attractive proposition for a roaster that wants that capability but canít afford the Monolith or an EK.
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Ah, thank you mate...

    Wouldn't have twigged for me re: commercial roasteries.

    Mal.

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    A new batch is on pre sale for January delivery. Iíve decided to try one.

    Owners their previous grinder seem happy with them.

    Iíve been looking for a single doser with flat burrs, looking forward to January.
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    I was wondering if anyone had received one yet? I believe the first batch has been dispatched.

    Looking forward to hearing what theyíre like.

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    still waiting for mine..... Supposedly on the way.
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    Received my Lagom P64 with SSP burrs today.

    First impressions. It's bigger than I expected, and heavier! The machining and build look very nice however.

    So I've just spent about 20 min grinding. However I'm not super happy at the moment.
    It starts off fine, but then the chute seems to get filled with grinds and it comes out like a sausage. But then hits the bottom of the portafilter and just blocks the chute further.
    I tried spraying the beans before grinding to try and reduce static, however this resulted in a big mess with grinds sticking right up the sides of the portafilter and ring.

    Retention, or lack of seems to be good.
    Manual says not to palm tap too hard, but I find several gentle taps are definitely required.

    I'm using Espresso Wow beans btw.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this sausage issue ? I haven't asked option-o yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonj View Post
    Received my Lagom P64 with SSP burrs today.

    First impressions. It's bigger than I expected, and heavier! The machining and build look very nice however.

    So I've just spent about 20 min grinding. However I'm not super happy at the moment.
    It starts off fine, but then the chute seems to get filled with grinds and it comes out like a sausage. But then hits the bottom of the portafilter and just blocks the chute further.
    I tried spraying the beans before grinding to try and reduce static, however this resulted in a big mess with grinds sticking right up the sides of the portafilter and ring.

    Retention, or lack of seems to be good.
    Manual says not to palm tap too hard, but I find several gentle taps are definitely required.

    I'm using Espresso Wow beans btw.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this sausage issue ? I haven't asked option-o yet.

    The “log” issue is also mentioned here: https://www.home-barista.com/grinder...60117-170.html

    But it’s only early days for this person also and he hopes it clears up as the burrs break in.

    He later mentions that : The logs and static ceased with a couple spritz from the bottle (RDT).

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    I contacted SSP about seasoning, and they said this. It might help with static. I plan to put a kilo of whateverís in special at the supermarket through mine when it arrives.


    ĎThank you for email.
    please do not use rice for seasoning burr set. grinder can be damaged by it.

    I would recommend dark roasted coffee bean for it. 500g-1kg is enoughí.

    Be careful not to use too much water when spritzing. You want just enough moisture to zap the static, but not enough to wet the beans

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conic View Post
    The ďlogĒ issue is also mentioned here: https://www.home-barista.com/grinder...60117-170.html

    But itís only early days for this person also and he hopes it clears up as the burrs break in.

    He later mentions that : The logs and static ceased with a couple spritz from the bottle (RDT).
    Thanks for pointing me to that post. I'll try again tomorrow. I really wanted to avoid having to spray the beans if possible. Just another step in the process...
    Being new to this method, perhaps I over did the spray....

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    This might help: https://youtu.be/T0Dh1W40ILY

    Or if using a spray bottle, only 1 spray is needed generally

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    I have to say I'm struggling a little with this grinder so far.

    Spraying the beans before grinding has certainly removed the "logs", however this is the mess it makes. 18.5g beans into 22g basket, with ring.
    The grinds just seem to be super fluffy.

    Any thoughts or suggestions ?

    IMG_3125.jpg
    IMG_3124.jpg

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    Fluffy is good, so you are using a dosing ring or funnel to catch the spray?
    A paper or plastic cup can be cut down as a improvisation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conic View Post
    Fluffy is good, so you are using a dosing ring or funnel to catch the spray?
    A paper or plastic cup can be cut down as a improvisation.
    Yes I agree. I like the fluffy, however it's sooo fluffy I can't keep it in the basket!
    Hard to tell, but in the pictures above there is a dosing ring already on the PF.

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    That looks like static to me, more than just fluffy, the way it's sticking to the sides more than just mounding up.
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    Coffee+carbon=heaven Mono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    That looks like static to me, more than just fluffy, the way it's sticking to the sides more than just mounding up.
    Yep my take on it also. Looks as if the grinds are actually magnetically attracted to the metal= static problem. I was having a similar issue with my NZ but only occasionally. I made one of those control discs (from aluminium) and it seems to have reduced the static problem occurrences even more. About to have a few days of high humidity and stormy weather so that will either confirm or deny the suspected improvement.....
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    You could try grinding at a slower speed, in theory it should generate less static.

    The other forum is talking up to 5kg throughput to “season” the burrs, it may reduce with use (hopefully).

    Atmospheric conditions can worsen the problem as well, very dry climate (low humidity) adds to the problem, that’s why adding water to the beans helps.
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    I had the opportunity to test more this morning.

    For referece, that above picture was with 1 squirt of water.
    So I thought I would try 2 squirts, and the result was improved further, but still not great. I added a 3rd and the change is really quite stunning I think!

    Here is a picture with 2 sprays.
    IMG_3128.jpg

    And now 3.
    IMG_3129.jpg

    I should mention I live in country SA and the climate is very dry. It is not unusual to see single figure humidity readings where I live at this time of year.
    In a more humid environment I might have gotten away with 1 or 2 squirts of water. And might find in winter that that becomes the case. Either way I'm much happier!

    Another thing I noticed, which makes sense, is that retention seems to be less, especially in the chute. Which is where I saw most of the grinds being trapped.
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    That’s awesome! Now you can get back to enjoying your coffee

    I’d be interested to hear a follow up review once you’ve used it a little more, I’m also in the market for a quality flat burr grinder.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Trying to get my head around this, a $1500 grinder, you have to hose the beans down before grinding to avoid static problems!

    I also live in country SA, dry area, have been using a Mazzer Mini (that I single dose with, replaced the doser with a Mini E type hopper) for many years, does a great job, bugger all retention.

    As far as "fluffy" grounds are concerned, why? as far as I'm concerned would create another problem to deal with, the only time I would think this is desirable would be if grinding to a powder as with Turkish, other wise it would be a pain in the rear end.
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Don't think 'fluffy' grinds per sť is the problem...
    Must be something in the design and materials used that is causing this.
    Like you Yelta, our RH is usually very low but never experience this behaviour with our Kony-E, and the grinds are always fluffy...

    Mal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Trying to get my head around this, a $1500 grinder, you have to hose the beans down before grinding to avoid static problems!

    I also live in country SA, dry area, have been using a Mazzer Mini (that I single dose with, replaced the doser with a Mini E type hopper) for many years, does a great job, bugger all retention.

    As far as "fluffy" grounds are concerned, why? as far as I'm concerned would create another problem to deal with, the only time I would think this is desirable would be if grinding to a powder as with Turkish, other wise it would be a pain in the rear end.
    Hi Yelta,

    I've owned 4 grinders to date. Static wasn't an issue with the other 3 grinders I had. I still own a Malhkonig Peak grinder which I truly love. Its quick, quiet and accurate, provided you have plenty of beans in the hopper. But I simply can't single dose it.

    The Lagom offers me all that plus almost zero retention. For now it requires that I spend 5 seconds spraying the beans, but that could change.

    I think like many hobbies, you see diminishing returns as you get further into it and spend more money and time. There are always cheaper solutions. But for me, I don't mind spending a few $$s on something I get pleasure out of. Even if it isn't the best value.

    Regarding the fluffy grinds. I don't mind either way, provided they don't cause a problem. In this case they don't. (provided I spray the beans)
    For what it's worth, I have noticed the cheaper grinders I owned spat out clumps, where the dearer ones delivered a smooth flow of grinds.
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    Thatís a huge improvement with the third spray, Iím pleased to see an easy solution.

    Hopefully this will improve further as the burrs are seasoned, perhaps at some point you wonít need to spray any more.
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    I've seen similar results from grinders delivered in polystyrene packing that took a couple of weeks to settle.

    Continue with the RDT it's a fantastic grinder I'm sure it'll settle down.

    Cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffR View Post
    That’s a huge improvement with the third spray, I’m pleased to see an easy solution.

    Hopefully this will improve further as the burrs are seasoned, perhaps at some point you won’t need to spray any more.
    Speaking with Hayden from Option-O, they are working on a possible fix or reduction to the static issue. So yes, hopefully I won't need to spray in the future.
    The burrs could settle down a bit too. I've only put through about 150g of beans so far! Whether they season enough to eliminate the need to spray completely only time will tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SanderP View Post
    I've seen similar results from grinders delivered in polystyrene packing that took a couple of weeks to settle.

    Continue with the RDT it's a fantastic grinder I'm sure it'll settle down.

    Cheers
    Interesting, I'd not considered the packing! It came packed in expanding foam. The sort that doesn't crumble like the traditional Styrofoam. Not sure what it is called.

    Apparently not all users are experiencing static issues either. So it is very possibly a climatic issue.

    Just started raining, perhaps I should make a coffee!??

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    ^^^^^^

    Ofcourse you should! The burrs won’t season themselves
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    Second batch has landed, and I received mine yesterday.

    First impressions are very good, Iíve made 4 coffees so far, and itís only roughly dialed in.

    Thankfully no static issues, I could use it without spraying and itís fine.

    Itís very well made, and easy to use. Workflow is great, and it makes zero mess, either straight into the porta, or into the cup.

    Grounds are super fluffy, and look very even as far as I can see.

    I did the retention test of weighing before and after, and got exactly the same weight of coffee out as I put in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffR View Post
    Second batch has landed, and I received mine yesterday.

    First impressions are very good, I’ve made 4 coffees so far, and it’s only roughly dialed in.

    Thankfully no static issues, I could use it without spraying and it’s fine.

    It’s very well made, and easy to use. Workflow is great, and it makes zero mess, either straight into the porta, or into the cup.

    Grounds are super fluffy, and look very even as far as I can see.

    I did the retention test of weighing before and after, and got exactly the same weight of coffee out as I put in.
    Would love to know what, if any, modifications have been made to overcome the static issue. One of these really ticks all my boxes if they can overcome it. But given the static issues I continue to have with the Niche, despite following all advice received, I'm a bit gun-shy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by splashalot View Post
    Would love to know what, if any, modifications have been made to overcome the static issue. One of these really ticks all my boxes if they can overcome it. But given the static issues I continue to have with the Niche, despite following all advice received, I'm a bit gun-shy.
    How long have you had the niche for? I had some static at the start but it went away with use and has been fine for the last year. I also didn't find it a big deal as you just invert your portafilter onto the cup, turn it upside down and a few taps later you're good to go. Could only really see the Lagom P64 appealing to niche owners if they wanted flat over conical (or to have both).

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    Quote Originally Posted by splashalot View Post
    Would love to know what, if any, modifications have been made to overcome the static issue. One of these really ticks all my boxes if they can overcome it. But given the static issues I continue to have with the Niche, despite following all advice received, I'm a bit gun-shy.
    Just a thought. Is the Niche double insulated ie only a two prong plug and therefore no earth wire? If so, would it be worth trying an earth strap from the chassis to see whether this has any effect on static?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas87 View Post
    How long have you had the niche for? I had some static at the start but it went away with use and has been fine for the last year. I also didn't find it a big deal as you just invert your portafilter onto the cup, turn it upside down and a few taps later you're good to go.
    I quickly found that cup inversion tended to spill some grounds despite effort at shaking grounds into flatness before removing the cup from the portafilter. Now, I shake the cup before tipping (not inverting) over half in, spin the distributor, repeat those steps. If there are any grounds still stuck to the sides or base of the cup a vigorous shake will release them, dissipate the static, to tip them in. Generally, I do not find static to be a problem. Love my Niche.

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    Quote Originally Posted by splashalot View Post
    Would love to know what, if any, modifications have been made to overcome the static issue. One of these really ticks all my boxes if they can overcome it. But given the static issues I continue to have with the Niche, despite following all advice received, I'm a bit gun-shy.
    Iím not sure there is a lot you can do about static with brand new burrs. Should clear up though after a few kg. Manual suggests 5kg, and that is comparable with my experience with a Comandante,

    I ran 1 kg of Woolworthís brand coffee through it last night (I was tempted to try some just to see what it was like, but it smelt so rank once ground that plan got shelved).

    I usually drink Nordic light roast coffee, and found nil static issues. With the dark roast woolies coffee I had a lot more static. I found reducing the motor speed and spraying kept it under control, I made a mess when using high motor speed.

    My coffee did taste better today following this. Great actually. It must have extracted a lot as that was a pretty psychedelic hit of caffeine. Might reduce my dose below the 20g Iím used to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Otago View Post
    Just a thought. Is the Niche double insulated ie only a two prong plug and therefore no earth wire? If so, would it be worth trying an earth strap from the chassis to see whether this has any effect on static?
    No it's earthed already
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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas87 View Post
    How long have you had the niche for? I had some static at the start but it went away with use and has been fine for the last year. I also didn't find it a big deal as you just invert your portafilter onto the cup, turn it upside down and a few taps later you're good to go. Could only really see the Lagom P64 appealing to niche owners if they wanted flat over conical (or to have both).
    Approx. 6 weeks. It was fine initially, but when the weather turned cold down here, it all went to &*^%. I've tried every single piece of advice I've been given in this forum and HB and still on some days the static is unworkable - the cup lined black with grinds (not fines or chaff) and impossible to remove by banging, tapping, shaking. And I get a lopsided precarious mountain in the PF which is a pain to manipulate without spilling. I've come to accept the Niche probably isn't going to work for me - plus now my wife is complaining about the bitter taste from the conical burrs! Am looking at flat burr alternatives, hence I'm in the Lagom thread.

    PS. I'm told one other Niche has been sold here in Hobart and he has static issues too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by splashalot View Post
    Approx. 6 weeks. It was fine initially, but when the weather turned cold down here, it all went to &*^%. I've tried every single piece of advice I've been given in this forum and HB and still on some days the static is unworkable - the cup lined black with grinds (not fines or chaff) and impossible to remove by banging, tapping, shaking. And I get a lopsided precarious mountain in the PF which is a pain to manipulate without spilling. I've come to accept the Niche probably isn't going to work for me - plus now my wife is complaining about the bitter taste from the conical burrs! Am looking at flat burr alternatives, hence I'm in the Lagom thread.

    PS. I'm told one other Niche has been sold here in Hobart and he has static issues too.
    Iím guessing itís pretty dry in Hobart which may impact your static. Itís not particularly humid here in Sydney at the moment, but perhaps even a little but makes grinding easier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by splashalot View Post
    Approx. 6 weeks. It was fine initially, but when the weather turned cold down here, it all went to &*^%. I've tried every single piece of advice I've been given in this forum and HB and still on some days the static is unworkable - the cup lined black with grinds (not fines or chaff) and impossible to remove by banging, tapping, shaking. And I get a lopsided precarious mountain in the PF which is a pain to manipulate without spilling. I've come to accept the Niche probably isn't going to work for me - plus now my wife is complaining about the bitter taste from the conical burrs! Am looking at flat burr alternatives, hence I'm in the Lagom thread.

    PS. I'm told one other Niche has been sold here in Hobart and he has static issues too.
    Have you run a few kg through to season the burrs? The woolies coffee I used was $12 a kg, and I ground very fine, just off zero. It might help, and is not a big investment.

    I donít like to waste things, and while I wouldnít drink this coffee, you can still throw it on the garden.

  48. #48
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    One way to deal with static is to Ďpre-grindí. I know it would take a bit of an adjustment to your routine to grind 5min or so before you make the coffee, but it would probably be long enough for most static to settle down. (Just cover the container to slow staling).
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    The static issues are in the Niche....right? Not in the Lagom.

    If so it would be a good idea to start a separate thread like "Niche Static issues"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo View Post
    The static issues are in the Niche....right? Not in the Lagom.

    If so it would be a good idea to start a separate thread like "Niche Static issues"
    and here it is, since September 2019
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