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Thread: What Grinder Budget Up To $2,000

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    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    What Grinder Budget Up To $2,000

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Had a chat with the MfF and Home Affairs, and have agreement that if I have spent $2,600;on a machine that will last 10+ years, why not invest in an excellent grinder that will last us as long, and be as reliable.

    scope:

    Budget: $2000 (donít have to spend it all)

    Not Negotiables

    • Available in Australia
    • demonstrated long service life
    • service easily available in Australia
    • small (500g) hopper available
    • minimal residual retained grinds
    • doserless


    Nice to haves
    • Timed dosing
    • Medium footprint
    • up to 450mm tall with small hopper
    • minimal mess
    • dose to a cup or a p/f
    • single dosing


    Any other things Iíve forgotten

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    Conventional grinder will always retain some grinds. At <$2k- Eureka Atom variants for speed, silence and ease of cleaning.

    Happy to weigh and dose your own? No brainer. Niche Zero ticks all your boxes other than the timer box.
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    Coffee+carbon=heaven Mono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    Conventional grinder will always retain some grinds. At <$2k- Eureka Atom variants for speed, silence and ease of cleaning.

    Happy to weigh and dose your own? No brainer. Niche Zero ticks all your boxes other than the timer box.
    As above, had a M4D, was looking at the Atom then found out about the Niche. I personally don’t think that you can go wrong with either of the suggestions it comes down to what is more important. Of course the Niche hasn’t been around long enough to answer the reliability question
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    The Eureka Fillet Mignon is good.

    The Madcap M4D.

    The Mazzer Mini E.

    There is a lot really. I have Mazzer Robur I love but it is big. Bigger burrs are great but you need room in your kitchen. Grinders with doses are still quite popular too.

    Most grinders except cafe grinders are flat burr but the Niche Zero has conical Kony burrs. Conical are very easy to dial in and consistent.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    Conventional grinder will always retain some grinds. At <$2k- Eureka Atom variants for speed, silence and ease of cleaning.
    .
    Thanks!
    The Atom 65 looks good. Has a “blow up” system for minimising retention (implemented by pushing on the hopper lid which acts as a sort of bellows to clear the burrs of unground beans and grinds). Eureka Video also suggests single dosing is possible. Has 65 mm burrs, otherwise same as Atom as far as I know.

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    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    What Grinder Budget Up To $2,000

    definitely the niche, and you come in nicely under budget. f-all retention, compact, designed for single dosing, easy to adjust. donít have to purge between different coffees. I donít even check the weight of my ground dose anymore. you can pull long shots without bitterness or astringency. itís actually such a fantastic grinder. it may look a little like a toy, and granted itís new, but it is built solidly. highly recommend.
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    I would also support the recommendations above, to buy a Niche grinder.
    Definitely the one I would buy if I didn't already have a Kony-E...

    Mal.
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    SCODY 2 hits your requirements and is bombproof for reliability.

    Comes with a big hopper, but a smaller 500g one is available.

    Has a nice feature where you can pause the preset timed grind halfway through, allowing you to settle the grounds in the portafilter before finishing the dose.
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    Niche

    Quiet, easy to use, easy to adjust, little/ no grind retention, consistent, great grind quality, small, looks great and did I say QUIET.

    Pre weigh a few days shots into small plastic containers - so easy. X gms in = X gms out.

    No contest!
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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    I can speak for the Eureka Zenith as it does most of what you are after. Ive never been more happy with a a grinder and its made up to now a huge impact on the rest of my coffee.that said though from what i'm reading on here i should start looking into a Niche Grinder... I dont want to change the subject but can someone let me know if the Niche would be a upgrade from the Eureka?

    good luck with finding what you want and also great that you are looking to spend time looking for a decent grinder as i think this is something that many fail to see when looking at a new Coffee machine.

    Cheers,

    Chris

  11. #11
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashpixx View Post
    • Available in Australia
    • demonstrated long service life
    • service easily available in Australia
    • small (500g) hopper available
    • minimal residual retained grinds
    • doserless
    I donít believe thereís a grinder available that ticks all of your boxes so you need to decide whatís most important. If we look at your Ďmust havesí above the only grinders I can think of that will go close to meeting these requirements are the Eureka Atom and the Macap M4D. If you go up to the Eureka Zenith you definitely get a better grinder that is probably still small enough with a short hopper, but retention is a lot higher.
    Lots of people have recommended the Niche Zero and Iíd agree that itís probably a good option. It doesnít have a proven long service life, but it has had some serious in-depth testing done on it over the last few years during development by people that know what theyíre talking about so I think itís worth considering.

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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    I have had exactly 12months (to the day) user experience with a Niche since it's delivery, purchased via the crowd funding at discount, Happy Birthday!. Prior to that single dosing on a Mazzer mini-e - which I still have and have not used since the Niche arrival, zero chance of buyers bias. Still love using the Niche, switch beans and switch back again multiple times, no problem, 4.00am espresso during noise curfew, no problem. A single dosers friend in so many ways. It has been doing a minimum of four, 20g (home roasted beans) grinds per day. I have cleaned the Niche four times in it's first year. No complaints, at all, yet, other users of this Niche, have been, and are, also very impressed.

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    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for your recommendations and thoughts.

    I do have a grinder now that I bought as part of a package with the ECM Mechanika, so no thought went into it - took the dealers recommendation.

    I do occasionally grind 150g of beans for the wife for her filter coffee at work, so just having a Niche might mean 4 or 5 doses.

    The Eureka Atom 65 is definitely on the shortlist as it does "appear" to purge retained grinds, has timed dosing that seems accurate to within 0.2 g in a 20 g dose. It's also not too big, and it comes from a company thats been building grinders for a long time.

    The Niche certainly does get a great review, and it's starting to build a good reputation now that it's been around for a little while.

    I do like the design and output methodology of the Baratza Sette 270Wi. Simon is single handedly driving the reputation of this grinder!!

  14. #14
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    What Grinder Budget Up To $2,000

    Quote Originally Posted by flashpixx View Post
    Thanks everyone for your recommendations and thoughts.

    I do have a grinder now that I bought as part of a package with the ECM Mechanika, so no thought went into it - took the dealers recommendation.

    I do occasionally grind 150g of beans for the wife for her filter coffee at work, so just having a Niche might mean 4 or 5 doses.

    The Eureka Atom 65 is definitely on the shortlist as it does "appear" to purge retained grinds, has timed dosing that seems accurate to within 0.2 g in a 20 g dose. It's also not too big, and it comes from a company thats been building grinders for a long time.

    The Niche certainly does get a great review, and it's starting to build a good reputation now that it's been around for a little while.

    I do like the design and output methodology of the Baratza Sette 270Wi. Simon is single handedly driving the reputation of this grinder!!
    Would you consider getting two grinders? Your budget would allow you to get a good espresso grinder like a Niche Zero, Eureka Atom or MahlkŲnig Vario for yourself and a Baratza 30AP for your wifeís filter.
    The Baratza 270wi is probably the best option available at the moment that will do a good job of both espresso and filter and ticks quite a lot of your boxes, but itís got question marks over its longevity and itís generally considered to be not quite as good a pure espresso grinder as the ones Iíve mentioned above for example.
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    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Would you consider getting two grinders
    I will likely keep the current grinder. It does a good job of the filter coffee grind. Leave it set for filter and she can do some beans when she needs them.

    That leaves me with the Atom, Niche, or something else I’ve not considered in that price/performance range to choose between.
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good plan...

    Mal.
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    Two grinders is a bad idea.

    I like it...
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    Add the Anfim Super Caimano

    and

    Eureka Zenith 65

    both with dosers and both under $1000...
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    I have 3 Malhkoenig Varios - 2 with the standard ceramic burrs for the Turkish to espresso textures, one with steel burrs for the coarser stuff. You would have to prise them out of my cold dead hands...

    The oldest Vario is about to turn 6 on 11/11/19 - and shows no burr wear at all - even under a microscope, despite having done a fair bit of service at some friend's cafes to the extent of 300+Kgs.

    Particle spread - way more even than any other sanely priced domestic grinder I have tried (not tried a Niche). Quiet, compact, minimal grind retention and dead accurate timer (within 0.1g consistently) makes it easy to live with.

    My only "Niche reservation": all conicals I (or Mahlkonig, or anyone else I have seem the data for) have tested have a twin peak of grinding texture distribution - i.e. too many fines at espresso textures. That reduces extraction ratios and/or introduces bitterness. I have yet to see anyone claim that the Niche solves this issue. If it does, I may swap my Varios for a Niche.

    Enjoy your cuppa

    TampIt
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    I sat through Daniel Hoffsetter's (Anfim head of R&D) presentation about a year ago and had my mind blown by some of their findings, including that of the role of fines within the puck. Rather than just speculate about what a distribution should be and how that effects the cup, they are gathering verified scientific data.

    For mine, if I was given a Vario, I'd sell it immediately. Seen too many where the adjustment mechanism is shagged and in addition to that, I'm not prepared to own a grinder which looks like a $200 appliance. My personal opinion and it is what it is.

    The Niche is brilliant in its concept and execution. For me, it is a second grinder (in addition to an etzMAX on espresso duty). The Niche does filter, origin, decaf and for me, it's perfect for all of them. I believe it also meets the OP's brief pretty well.

    I also respect Dave Corby and his review and testing of the product which rather than mere speculation and drum beating is evidence based.
    Last edited by Caffeinator; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:24 AM.
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    I'll take science every time too mate...

    Mal.
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    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Add the Anfim Super Caimano

    and

    Eureka Zenith 65

    both with dosers and both under $1000...
    Thank you! Both nice grinders but having reviewed the Atom variants I am pretty much sold on timed dosing


    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    I have 3 Malhkoenig Varios - 2 with the standard ceramic burrs for the Turkish to espresso textures, one with steel burrs for the coarser stuff. You would have to prise them out of my cold dead hands...

    The oldest Vario is about to turn 6 on 11/11/19 - and shows no burr wear at all - even under a microscope, despite having done a fair bit of service at some friend's cafes to the extent of 300+Kgs.

    Particle spread - way more even than any other sanely priced domestic grinder I have tried (not tried a Niche). Quiet, compact, minimal grind retention and dead accurate timer (within 0.1g consistently) makes it easy to live with.

    My only "Niche reservation": all conicals I (or Mahlkonig, or anyone else I have seem the data for) have tested have a twin peak of grinding texture distribution - i.e. too many fines at espresso textures. That reduces extraction ratios and/or introduces bitterness. I have yet to see anyone claim that the Niche solves this issue. If it does, I may swap my Varios for a Niche.

    Enjoy your cuppa

    TampIt
    Thanks TampIt. I did take some time to look closely an the Vario. Again a very nice grinder, but personally I'm not liking the visuals. While I'm sure the stepped grind adjustment works a treat I think I would prefer stepless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    I sat through Daniel Hoffsetter's (Anfim head of R&D) presentation about a year ago and had my mind blown by some of their findings, including that of the role of fines within the puck. Rather than just speculate about what a distribution should be and how that effects the cup, they are gathering verified scientific data.

    For mine, if I was given a Vario, I'd sell it immediately. Seen too many where the adjustment mechanism is shagged and in addition to that, I'm not prepared to own a grinder which looks like a $200 appliance. My personal opinion and it is what it is.

    The Niche is brilliant in its concept and execution. For me, it is a second grinder (in addition to an etzMAX on espresso duty). The Niche does filter, origin, decaf and for me, it's perfect for all of them. I believe it also meets the OP's brief pretty well.

    I also respect Dave Corby and his review and testing of the product which rather than mere speculation and drum beating is evidence based.
    Thanks! Thanks for the link, a bit beyond my level of required knowledge, but demonstrates AnFim commitment!

    I'm talking to CS Sponsors at the moment to ask some specifics about a couple of machines and getting them across the Nullabor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    I sat through Daniel Hoffsetter's (Anfim head of R&D) presentation about a year ago and had my mind blown by some of their findings, including that of the role of fines within the puck. Rather than just speculate about what a distribution should be and how that effects the cup, they are gathering verified scientific data.

    For mine, if I was given a Vario, I'd sell it immediately. Seen too many where the adjustment mechanism is shagged and in addition to that, I'm not prepared to own a grinder which looks like a $200 appliance. My personal opinion and it is what it is.

    The Niche is brilliant in its concept and execution. For me, it is a second grinder (in addition to an etzMAX on espresso duty). The Niche does filter, origin, decaf and for me, it's perfect for all of them. I believe it also meets the OP's brief pretty well.

    I also respect Dave Corby and his review and testing of the product which rather than mere speculation and drum beating is evidence based.
    G'day Caffeinator

    "Seen too many where the adjustment mechanism is shagged": I wonder why that is? The manual (P20 on mine) has a big red caution sign and a message which reads as follows:-

    "When the coffee grinder is switched off, partially ground coffee beans may remain between the grinding discs. The grind adjustment in the FINE direction (upwards) should always be made with the grinder in operation, since this may otherwise result in damage to the adjustment mechanism."


    When they designed the gen2 Vario, Swiss company Ditting (part of Mahlkoenig group) essentially wrapped one of their commercial grinding modules (complete with long life ceramic burrs) in a compact quiet package. The downside is that any idiot can wreck the adjusters - just like the manual states. So far, within the Turkish to espresso range of grinding textures, the Vario beats all the grinders I have played with up to the 1985 "EK43 ancestor", the EK43 itself and the more upmarket Dittings.

    When I get a chance I will try a niche in the hope it does better again, however I repeat all data I have on conicals (courtesy of hard core scientific measurement guys like David Walsh & Ben Kaminsky as well as a friend's medical laser refractometer here) shows the conical mechanism always creates a twin peak distribution with too many fines (plus extra "logs" AFAIAC). That is why sieving coffee grinds for fines (same friends mechanised sieve sets) actually levels the playing field between flat and conical burrs. Your Anfim links also backs flat burrs, not conicals. Hopefully the Niche doesn't "do the conical usual".

    As to the look - I am a function first guy so I personally do not care what it looks like, although I have a slight preference for unobtrusive things that just work well.

    Just my 2 cents.

    TampIt
    PS: If I had unlimited space and no regard for grind retention (I HATE stale coffee, burnt coffee and scalded milk equally) I would probably get one of the augur Ditting models. Totally impractical for a micro kitchen and domestic workloads.

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    Yep- could well be a case of RTFM!
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    I agree with Caffeinator generally and it should not be possible to break a grinder using simple adjustments while not on, not unless a large amount of force is used. I have seen and heard (loud) these grinders. I think he has a point about quality issues and appearances. I also never adjust to a finer grind setting with the grinder on unless I meet undue resistance.

    Most conicals versus flat burrs is an argument not worth entering into as it is inflammatory and pointless with a lot of contradictory data. All that matters is that you like what is in the cup at the end of the process. Conicals I like as they are almost set and forget they are just that stable.

    Conicals and Flat burrs cover a huge range and price of grinders and are both used by enthusiasts and both make great coffee. The Kafetek Monolith, for instance, hand-built in Seattle comes in both flat and conical with both popular...and expensive.


    I think the Niche Zero with Kony conical burrs looks very nice and is well priced.
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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    When I get a chance I will try a niche in the hope it does better again, however I repeat all data I have on conicals (courtesy of hard core scientific measurement guys like David Walsh & Ben Kaminsky as well as a friend's medical laser refractometer here) shows the conical mechanism always creates a twin peak distribution with too many fines (plus extra "logs" AFAIAC). That is why sieving coffee grinds for fines (same friends mechanised sieve sets) actually levels the playing field between flat and conical burrs. Your Anfim links also backs flat burrs, not conicals. Hopefully the Niche doesn't "do the conical usual".
    As I'm sure you suspect, the Niche does do the conical usual. What makes the Niche special is either side of the burrs. Easily repeatable grind adjustment above, and practically zero retention below. Purging is a thing of the past. It's also reasonably quiet for a grinder, but still loud like a grinder. Only the Atom is below the jump-if-you're-not-expecting-it threshold for me (however my wife did manage to catch me off guard once when I must have been deep in thought).

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    I agree with Caffeinator generally and it should not be possible to break a grinder using simple adjustments while not on, not unless a large amount of force is used. I have seen and heard (loud) these grinders. I think he has a point about quality issues and appearances. I also never adjust to a finer grind setting with the grinder on unless I meet undue resistance.
    I would suggest that best practice is to always adjust a grinder with it running (and to RTFM). Though conicals seem to be less sensitive to stationary adjustment, and I imagine your Robur would be about the sturdiest conical! The Vario sure has a set of pipes on it, it's is one of the loudest domestic grinders I've been in the same room as.


    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Most conicals versus flat burrs is an argument not worth entering into as it is inflammatory and pointless with a lot of contradictory data. All that matters is that you like what is in the cup at the end of the process.
    I must respectfully disagree with your first statement and agree with the second. Yes there is a lot of contradictory information out there, but we don't have to value it all equally. I hope people like Anfim keep following the science to sort the wheat from the chaff and pushing the technology to even greater heights. I think it is worth asking, "Can we do it better?"
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    I like the Robur, retention and all (which doesn't bother me as I don't notice it in either taste or pour times).

    I wouldn't recommend it to a newbie as it is very big, and too expensive new but you can get great buys on them second hand and they last forever.

    There is always value in bulletproof construction and even dosers which I think work just fine for home users and help break up any clumps.

    It comes down to what you value most and why. Room and bench space is also a major consideration for most people.

    I like the way I can sometimes go from one bean to another, let alone between roasts of the same bean, without adjusting the grind, that is how stable it is. It is also quiet and quick doing 18 grams in less than five seconds.

    People buy coffee machines and grinders for looks robustness, zero grind retention and so on.

    I like the Niche Zero though and it is in picture for interesting home grinders that are well regarded.

    I could go either flat burr or conical though. I don't have a fixation with one or the other except this one works so well, I have no reason to change except maybe for the sake of change. I think we all like to fiddle with new toys. One day maybe I will get something else as well as or instead of the Robur...who knows. I need a bigger kitchen though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post

    When I get a chance I will try a niche in the hope it does better again, however I repeat all data I have on conicals (courtesy of hard core scientific measurement guys like David Walsh & Ben Kaminsky as well as a friend's medical laser refractometer here) shows the conical mechanism always creates a twin peak distribution with too many fines (plus extra "logs" AFAIAC). That is why sieving coffee grinds for fines (same friends mechanised sieve sets) actually levels the playing field between flat and conical burrs. Your Anfim links also backs flat burrs, not conicals. Hopefully the Niche doesn't "do the conical usual".
    As I'm sure you suspect, the Niche does do the conical usual. What makes the Niche special is either side of the burrs. Easily repeatable grind adjustment above, and practically zero retention below. Purging is a thing of the past. It's also reasonably quiet for a grinder, but still loud like a grinder. Only the Atom is below the jump-if-you're-not-expecting-it threshold for me (however my wife did manage to catch me off guard once when I must have been deep in thought).
    G'Day level3ninja

    That is truly a shame. I have never understood why all measurements of conicals show that peak of fines. The logs I do understand, however most of them may be removed by good design.

    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    When they designed the gen2 Vario, Swiss company Ditting (part of Mahlkoenig group) essentially wrapped one of their commercial grinding modules (complete with long life ceramic burrs) in a compact quiet package. The downside is that any idiot can wreck the adjusters - just like the manual states. So far, within the Turkish to espresso range of grinding textures, the Vario beats all the grinders I have played with up to the 1985 "EK43 ancestor", the EK43 itself and the more upmarket Dittings.
    I would suggest that best practice is to always adjust a grinder with it running (and to RTFM). Though conicals seem to be less sensitive to stationary adjustment, and I imagine your Robur would be about the sturdiest conical! The Vario sure has a set of pipes on it, it's is one of the loudest domestic grinders I've been in the same room as.
    I think you are confusing the Sette (loudest domestic grinder I know of - especially the early ones) and the Vario. The Vario is, as I posted, pretty quiet. About 1/4 of Smartgrinders are quieter, most aren't. Most domestic grinders are noticeably noisier then a Vario. I know of no commercial grinder that is as quiet as the Vario. BTW, both my gen2 Varios passed the "5am whilst everyone else was asleep" test in a household of 6 for over a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Most conicals versus flat burrs is an argument not worth entering into as it is inflammatory and pointless with a lot of contradictory data. All that matters is that you like what is in the cup at the end of the process. Conicals I like as they are almost set and forget they are just that stable.
    I must respectfully disagree with your first statement and agree with the second. Yes there is a lot of contradictory information out there, but we don't have to value it all equally. I hope people like Anfim keep following the science to sort the wheat from the chaff and pushing the technology to even greater heights. I think it is worth asking, "Can we do it better?"
    Conical vs flat - Please show me at least one genuine particle spread graph from a conical that does not show a twin peak if you can. I may well buy it if it small enough to fit in this micro kitchen.

    "Can we do it better?": Yay to that! I cannot see how an augur grinder can be made "accurate and cheap" so I keep hoping that someone can come up with a genuine "all texture" grinder that is at least as accurate using some other technology. The standard ceramic burr Vario gen2 and gen3s are pretty poor outside their Turkish to espresso range, whilst the steel burr option makes it hopeless as an espresso grinder. You pays your money...

    TampIt

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    Quote Originally Posted by flashpixx View Post
    Thank you! Both nice grinders but having reviewed the Atom variants I am pretty much sold on timed dosing
    If you want to potentially save an extra buck, look at the mignon range as well. I have the specialita, quiet, precise, low variability in grind, timed dosing, and retention I get is only between 0.1-0.2g when deep cleaned.
    I am able to comfortably single dose with it.
    I would highly recommend it compared with the atom for single dosing if that's your thing. I found the retention in the atom to be higher, around 0.4-0.6g in the one I played with.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffinator View Post
    If you want to potentially save an extra buck, look at the mignon range as well. I have the specialita, quiet, precise, low variability in grind, timed dosing, and retention I get is only between 0.1-0.2g when deep cleaned.
    I am able to comfortably single dose with it.
    I would highly recommend it compared with the atom for single dosing if that's your thing. I found the retention in the atom to be higher, around 0.4-0.6g in the one I played with.
    The perfect grinder doesn't exist but I agree for espresso it would be a top pick. The thing with the dial adjustment is it takes too long to go from say Turkish to espresso or to filter. Now this may not EVER be a problem for some people but it is worth pointing out as it can be a hassle as I found with my M4D.

    I was thinking about it more. I love big grinders but bench space must be sacrificed so if I got another grinder it would be a home one and small.

    The Mignon fits the bill but another one I like which has a 'normal' adjustment collar is the Ceado E6P.
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  31. #31
    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Just a little side note regarding my travails in talking with sellers of the grinders I have in mind.

    I contacted 3 site sponsors and one non sponsor. They were the ones that had one of the machines I was looking at available so I could talk about my various choices. Or so I thought.

    One, a site sponsor didnít bother replying. Another, again a site sponsor was so far outside the pricing of the others. A third site sponsor was so tardy in responding that I got tired of waiting.

    so that left the 4th and only non site sponsor. They were amazing, made an effort to communicate, ask, listen, and recognise that Perth is not walking distance from the Eastern States.

    The site sponsors knew I was from CS I didnít ask for any special pricing, at least from the ones I spoke to.

    A bit disappointing really.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashpixx View Post
    The site sponsors knew I was from CS I didnít ask for any special pricing, at least from the ones I spoke to.

    A bit disappointing really.
    What did you end up ordering?

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    Quote Originally Posted by flashpixx View Post
    Just a little side note regarding my travails in talking with sellers of the grinders I have in mind.

    so that left the 4th and only non site sponsor. They were amazing, made an effort to communicate, ask, listen, and recognise that Perth is not walking distance from the Eastern States.
    Have you made a disappointing purchase yet?

    Seriously grinders are pretty reliable things. Aside from shipping cost I'm not sure I would worry too much about where I got it from. Coffee Machines are quite different and many more things can potentially go wrong.
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  34. #34
    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Have you made a disappointing purchase yet?

    Seriously grinders are pretty reliable things. Aside from shipping cost I'm not sure I would worry too much about where I got it from. Coffee Machines are quite different and many more things can potentially go wrong.
    Haha not worried about the supplier, has been around for sometime and has bricks and mortar shops.
    I had hoped that there might have been a bit better response from the site sponsors.

    its all good
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  35. #35
    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    With thanks to everyone that commented and provided advice on a grinder, with particular thanks to level3ninja for swapping PM’s.

    Ive learnt quite a bit along the way, proving once again that getting seriously into coffee should come with a warning that the more you find out, the more you find out there is much more to find out haha ��

    Ive ordered a Eureka Atom Specialita 65.

    Comes with red burrs and a 300g hopper. I gave the “blow up” system a miss, is an extra $500. Have done lots of research, although not a lot out there on the Atom 65. Plenty on the Atom however.

    Key Points.

    The 65 has much less space around the lower burr, and a seemingly effective sweep, so retention is much lower than the Atom. Other than that the 65 has a 510 watt motor spinning at 1310 rpm, vs the Atom 450 watts at 1350 rpm.

    the electronic timed dosing is the same, although with the 3 times as fast grind time the 65 gets an extra digit beyond the decimal place showing 0.05 sec timing variations.

    The 65 is a bit larger in all directions, however I’ve saved a few cm by opting for the 300g hopper vs the std 510g.

    The other grinder I considered was, probably obviously, the Niche Zero.

    Truth be told I would likely be happy with the Niche, but somehow the Atom 65 appealed more. Perhaps it’s the appliance look of the Niche, having to weigh the beans prior to grinding, not able to grind into a pf.... or my heart overruled my head.

    Price wise they were both the same, so it only came down to my preference.

    Im very confident the Eureka will last my lifetime, the company has been around for a long time and still looks strong and viable even given the problems facing some manufacturers in Italy.

    Really looking forward to getting it on the kitchen bench beside the ECM. Video of the grind output looks lovely.

    Now if I can nail a naked pour I will be a happy pretend home barista
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  36. #36
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    I think you made a good decision. Iím not a fan of grinders that can only single dose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    I think you made a good decision. I’m not a fan of grinders that can only single dose.
    I've never used one.

    Coffee doesn't really spoil as such. It is toxic to most life which is why green beans last for years too.

    Microbial growth doesn't affect it either but mould could grow in humid environments.

    I don't notice any effect on flavour or pour but that doesn't mean that there isn't any...of course.

  38. #38
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    wattgn I'm struggling to see the relevance of paragraphs 2-4 of your post in relation to the comment you quoted.

    Roasted coffee certainly goes stale even if it doesn't spoil. This process is accelerated greatly by grinding the coffee. If you can't taste the difference and don't feel the need to purge (and are happy to tip excess ground coffee back into the doser for next time) then I'm not inclined to discourage you. I would, however, like to suggest that it is not a good prescription for others to follow if they want to brew delicious coffee.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    wattgn I'm struggling to see the relevance of paragraphs 2-4 of your post in relation to the comment you quoted.
    I would, however, like to suggest that it is not a good prescription for others to follow if they want to brew delicious coffee.
    If you are implying that single dosing is the answer that is up to you.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    If you are implying that single dosing is the answer that is up to you.
    No I mean what I wrote literally. I'm probably being dense.

  41. #41
    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    If you are implying that single dosing is the answer that is up to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    No I mean what I wrote literally. I'm probably being dense.
    Interpretation...
    If you are single dosing, and you haven’t purged your grinder from last use (say yesterday) you are potentially having 12 hour old grinds making up 25% of your dose into the puck. For better or worse....
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  42. #42
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    Well closer to 2/18 as I have measured it but it will vary as grinds get carried over in mysterious ways. It does average at 2 grams carryover in my Robur.

    In other words it might be next to nothing or it could be more in the Robur at times.

    The point is something is a problem when it becomes a problem and that is a line drawn by each user. I would say though that it would be an interesting test to blind taste.

    Everybody has a different sense of both taste and smell that is a fact.

    Of course, once the first shot of the day is done then it may only be a few hours until the next shot.

    The carryover doesn't affect the pour. The effect on taste...I don't notice it, someone else may notice it for the first shot of the day but that is an unknown.
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  43. #43
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    Probably more of a "horses for courses" kind of thing...

    Single dosing has its place, especially in very low throughput situations and mostly at home.
    Higher throughput would demand the use of a grinder that can keep up with demand and doesn't require weighing out the beans each and every time. That being said, my Kony-E and wattgn's Robur definitely sit in the latter category and currently are being adapted for usage that they were not intended. Matters little to me that there's a bit more stuffing about to use the Kony as a single dosing grinder but if I was looking for such a grinder now, the Niche definitely would be sitting squarely in the cross-hairs.

    Grinders don't have to be for a 'fixed' usage scenario as they can, with modified techniques, be used in many scenarios but maybe not ideally in each, other than the one that the engineers/designers specifically intended.

    Mal.
    Last edited by Dimal; 1 Week Ago at 10:43 PM.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    I've never used one.

    Coffee doesn't really spoil as such. It is toxic to most life which is why green beans last for years too.

    Microbial growth doesn't affect it either but mould could grow in humid environments.

    I don't notice any effect on flavour or pour but that doesn't mean that there isn't any...of course.
    Grant you might as well sell that behemoth taking up valuable bench space in the kitchen and buy preground coffee from a high quality, local roaster that uses a top quality shop grinder. Youíd probably earn brownie points at home and not notice any reduction in coffee quality.
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Grant you might as well sell that behemoth taking up valuable bench space in the kitchen and buy preground coffee from a high quality, local roaster that uses a top quality shop grinder. Youíd probably earn brownie points at home and not notice any reduction in coffee quality.
    Your spot on Leroy !

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Grant you might as well sell that behemoth taking up valuable bench space in the kitchen and buy preground coffee from a high quality, local roaster that uses a top quality shop grinder. You’d probably earn brownie points at home and not notice any reduction in coffee quality.
    Leroy.

    You are a troll...

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Leroy.

    You are a troll...

    Grant-


  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Grant-

    Hi Leroy,

    I guess when you make posts like that maybe the joke is on me but it makes no sense except as a joke.

    The Robur is an amazing grinder...just big and that is a moderate issue for me but it does fit in the kitchen. My wife has got used to it now. It is probably more an issue when I want to move it which fortunately is not very often.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Hi Leroy,

    I guess when you make posts like that maybe the joke is on me but it makes no sense except as a joke.

    The Robur is an amazing grinder...just big and that is a moderate issue for me but it does fit in the kitchen. My wife has got used to it now. It is probably more an issue when I want to move it which fortunately is not very often.
    Grant,

    I reckon a lot of people are genuinely struggling to fully understand your intended meaning in several of the posts above (e.g. post #37 and #39). They might have understandably 'got the wrong end of the stick'. Just sayin.

    Cheers
    Barry

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Grant,

    I reckon a lot of people are genuinely struggling to fully understand your intended meaning in several of the posts above (e.g. post #37 and #39). They might have understandably 'got the wrong end of the stick'. Just sayin.

    Cheers
    Barry
    I don't think it is unclear. Coffee is toxic and most things won't grow bugs or otherwise very readily, due to the caffeine. It is a blessing as it is what makes green beans last so long.

    Staleness is oxidation of beans by exposure to air and is greater once the coffee is ground. It is a matter of opinion of what stale is too, it might be affecting pour properties or flavour. One well known web site suggested it 12 hours as their marker for 'stale'. How long is your piece of string?

    The carryover on the Robur is still small and to me quite acceptable. I would clean the chute and give it a brush out if I left it unused for a time but it gets about four shots a day through it.

    It seems I have offended a lot of people who think single dosing is the way to go. I guess I think it is a lot of work for not much return but I if you have a grinder that is designed to single dose, then it makes it easy to do so. Very few grinders do, I can think of the Niche and the Sette that are designed with single dosing in mind. Others it takes modifications and extra work and time to do single dosing.

    I don't mind putting the Robur forward either as a great grinder, one of the best conicals on the market. The Kafetek Monolith uses the Robur burrs but coated I think. You can also use those burrs in the Robur. The red coated or also Gorilla Burrs are also available.

    A burr that has been carried forward too into the Mazzer 'S' series Robur.

    The Kafetek Monolith also is SINGLE DOSING so if you have 5k you can get the best burrs with a grinder as well.

    The Niche uses Mazzer Kony burrs. Must be good.

    I do clean it...

    It reminds me how well built it is...
    Last edited by wattgn; 1 Week Ago at 07:13 PM.
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