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Thread: ECM V-Titan 64 vs Nice zero - grind quality

  1. #1
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    ECM V-Titan 64 vs Nice zero - grind quality

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    So Iíve just bit the bullet and purchased an ECM Synchronika and now Iím looking at grinders. Is there anyone out there that can comment on the quality of grinding on the ECM V-Titan 64 vs Niche Zero?

    I know theyíre totally different workflows and burrs. To be honest this is my first coffee machine / grinder purchase so Iím going to borrow a grinder first to work out which workflow I prefer. My mate has the niche zero already so that helps.

    I just want to hear about grind quality and any user experiences on the v-Titan 64. Iíve read up on the niche and thereís heaps on that on this board.

    Whole latte love did a review on the Titan 64 here - https://youtu.be/kfMO993Fdp8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    So I’ve just bit the bullet and purchased an ECM Synchronika and now I’m looking at grinders. Is there anyone out there that can comment on the quality of grinding on the ECM V-Titan 64 vs Niche Zero?

    I know they’re totally different workflows and burrs. To be honest this is my first coffee machine / grinder purchase so I’m going to borrow a grinder first to work out which workflow I prefer. My mate has the niche zero already so that helps.

    I just want to hear about grind quality and any user experiences on the v-Titan 64. I’ve read up on the niche and there’s heaps on that on this board.

    Whole latte love did a review on the Titan 64 here - https://youtu.be/kfMO993Fdp8
    The Niche Zero is the flavour de jeur but it does have nice kony conical burrs, it does single dose if that is important and it seems well regarded by owners.

    The Titan 64 is a rock solid grinder with a good reputation but it isn't for single dosing and has flat burrs. It also looks amazing which the Niche doesn't.

    Either would suit you as would a number of other grinders. Personally I like very simple commercial grinders with conical or flat burrs and a doser...I'm in a minority though. I don't mind.
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    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    no idea about the grind quality between the two, but I can confirm the niche has great grind quality, to the point where I stopped using my EK for espresso.

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    Yes there is no doubt that I prefer the looks of the Titan that is for sure. Apparently it’s very low retention so changing grind setting shouldn’t be too hard. I don’t see myself having three different types of beans a day - once I’ve found my favourite that is.

    If the grind quality was on par, I would choose the Titan I think. If it was less than 5% different I think I’d still choose the Titan.

    basically I’m making sure there’s no big red flag with it. For example I did read somewhere that worm gears can creep over time. Nothing a toothpick wouldn’t fix though I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    no idea about the grind quality between the two, but I can confirm the niche has great grind quality, to the point where I stopped using my EK for espresso.
    excuse my ignorance but what’s an EK? Just to make sure I get it right

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    ECM V-Titan 64 vs Nice zero - grind quality

    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    excuse my ignorance but whatís an EK? Just to make sure I get it right
    EK43, a bag grinder that youíll find in almost any specialty cafe. used primarily for grinding batch brew, single-origin espresso, and retail beans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    EK43, a bag grinder that you’ll find in almost any specialty cafe. used primarily for grinding batch brew, single-origin espresso, and retail beans.
    Wow that is a vote for the niche indeed. I’m not overly keen on the look or the single dose (I think) but if there’s that much of a difference....

    hence my dilemma. If love to hear from someone who’s used both or be able to get an AB comparison.

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    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    Wow that is a vote for the niche indeed. I’m not overly keen on the look or the single dose (I think) but if there’s that much of a difference....
    if you'd rather use a hopper full of beans then you probably won't like the niche. i come from a crowd that prefers to carefully portion up coffee and minimise waste.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    if you'd rather use a hopper full of beans then you probably won't like the niche. i come from a crowd that prefers to carefully portion up coffee and minimise waste.
    honestly I can say until I have used both workflows which I prefer, I guess Iím after more user experiences on the Titan because we already know the nicheís credentials

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    I have the T64 which is mechanically very similar to the Titan. Great grinder, with fast accurate dosing.

    Does a double in around 7 seconds.

    Comes into its own when you have guests and need to bang out 6 or 8 coffees in rapid fire.

    No reliability issues whatsoever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    I have the T64 which is mechanically very similar to the Titan. Great grinder, with fast accurate dosing.

    Does a double in around 7 seconds.

    Comes into its own when you have guests and need to bang out 6 or 8 coffees in rapid fire.

    No reliability issues whatsoever.
    That’s good to know, hows the grind quality compare to something like the niche zero?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    That’s good to know, hows the grind quality compare to something like the niche zero?
    It is a matter of opinion as one is flat burr while the other has conical burrs and they produce a different particle size distribution.

    Conicals are definitely more forgiving but the difference in flavour is probably difficult for the average person to pick. Some prefer one or the other.
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    I should add too, the Niche Zero conical operates at 330 rpm and the burrs have more grinding surface than the equivalent size flat burrs. There will be very little heat imparted to the beans. This is due to the low rpm but also the large burrs will absorb more heat.

    The effect in the cup though is debatable...as always.

    Some grinders the grind can come out quite hot which is never a good thing. The Titan 64 will impart less heat to the grind than most grinders and will therefore give better shot to shot consistency say than a Sette or similar where the grinds can get quite hot.

    You will get good results with either but the advantage might still be with the conical Niche Zero.

    I have read too that you get less popcorning from a low rpm conical. This is important as most of the time a grinder with a hopper will be just only filled into the neck for home use.
    Last edited by wattgn; 15th October 2019 at 10:39 PM.

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    Dear OP - congrats on an excellent espresso machine purchase! It's a classic beauty. I'm sure you must be loving it to bits.

    I'm in a similar decision phase this year although ECM is not on my short list due to non availability. All the online praise for Niche doesn't go unnoticed to anyone doing an online search for grinders.

    To me a Niche Zero appears to be a slightly unfinished product but with a lot of potential. In fact most of the praise for Niche is about how the grind quality compares or exceeds commercial grinders of same or higher price points. So grind quality should be a non issue for you. Workflow is also not that big a deal for home setups - it's just a couple of shots per day for most. I'm in the wattgn minority camp here.

    Know this - if Niche manages to do everything right consistently from here on, 10 years down the line they will probably be more like Baratza and less like ECM.

    In those 10 years, you have to take a call on which one will provide you with better parts availability & service locally (not that grinders need a lot of service, other than regular cleaning, but just stuff like broken switches, faulty motor moving parts, plastic parts or a variety of aftermarket burr options).

    This is really an appliance (albeit a prosumer one) vs a machine call.

    All the best with your decision and hope you make the right one soon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    Thatís good to know, hows the grind quality compare to something like the niche zero?
    Not sure, I havenít tried a niche. Not into conicals personally.

    If youíre not already aware, ECM also makes the S-Automatik 64, which is essentially the same grinder as the titan, minus the titanium coating on the burrs, and in a less fancy Ďskiní for a few hundred bucks less.

    The T64 is the same story, but in a profitec skin.
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    A few thoughts on the Titan 64. I ordered then returned the grinder and replaced it with an Eureka 75. I also have the Niche. The Titan looks great and matched the stainless mirror finish of my Elektra T1. I could not get the grinder to be consistent. I would get it dialed in then next day I would get a 5 second gusher. Went through pounds of coffee and gave up. As soon as I switched back to an old grinder with the same coffee, no issues.

    I also found the ECM user interface to be exceedingly frustrating to use. Setting the dosing time is tricky because you have to press buttons in a specific sequence but you only have a very short time to press each button before the grinder resets. You can learn it but not sure why the buttons reset so quickly. Next issue, when you dose by time, you frequently need to top up. On the Eureka, you press the manual button and dose. Alternatively, on the Eureka, I set the single shot, which I do not use, to .1 sec and dose a "single" to add a gram or so. With the ECM, you cannot set the single below one second, so you are dosing 4 grams or so. The instructions say you can also manual dose by starting a timed dose, then hitting the start/stop switch again to stop the dosing. Not easy to do. If you push the switch once, wait a half second while you top up (1/2 sec = about 2 grams) then press it again to stop, the machine thinks you pressed the button twice and doses a double all over the counter. You need to wait about a second before stopping the dosing so you are topping up with 4 grams. The only way I found to top up is to put the machine in manual mode, sequencing through the same finicky buttons to get into manual mode. When you are done, you have to reverse this.

    I recently purchased the Niche for decaf along with 12 one way venting plastic tubes to store individual doses. I portion the beans into the tubes after roasting. The grinder works great. Open lid, dump in dose, turn on switch and grind into cup. The one issue I had was transferring from the cup to the portafilter. The grinds would often pile up on one side of the portafilter and there would be some static keeping maybe .2 gram in the cup. I decided to dose directly into the portafilter. I purchased a Descent portafilter holder and a dosing funnel. I mounted the holder under the Niche spout. Now I put the funnel on the portafilter, put the filter on the stand and grind. I tap the portafilter on a rubber mat to settle the grinds, remove the funnel then tamp. Very consistent results and easy to integrate into your workflow because you do not have to watch the grinder, just wait until all beans are ground. Highly recommend the Niche as well as the Eureka 75 I purchased.
    Dimal, noonar, flashpixx and 1 others like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PARNYCoffee View Post
    A few thoughts on the Titan 64. I ordered then returned the grinder and replaced it with an Eureka 75. I also have the Niche. The Titan looks great and matched the stainless mirror finish of my Elektra T1. I could not get the grinder to be consistent. I would get it dialed in then next day I would get a 5 second gusher. Went through pounds of coffee and gave up. As soon as I switched back to an old grinder with the same coffee, no issues.

    I also found the ECM user interface to be exceedingly frustrating to use. Setting the dosing time is tricky because you have to press buttons in a specific sequence but you only have a very short time to press each button before the grinder resets. You can learn it but not sure why the buttons reset so quickly. Next issue, when you dose by time, you frequently need to top up. On the Eureka, you press the manual button and dose. Alternatively, on the Eureka, I set the single shot, which I do not use, to .1 sec and dose a "single" to add a gram or so. With the ECM, you cannot set the single below one second, so you are dosing 4 grams or so. The instructions say you can also manual dose by starting a timed dose, then hitting the start/stop switch again to stop the dosing. Not easy to do. If you push the switch once, wait a half second while you top up (1/2 sec = about 2 grams) then press it again to stop, the machine thinks you pressed the button twice and doses a double all over the counter. You need to wait about a second before stopping the dosing so you are topping up with 4 grams. The only way I found to top up is to put the machine in manual mode, sequencing through the same finicky buttons to get into manual mode. When you are done, you have to reverse this.

    I recently purchased the Niche for decaf along with 12 one way venting plastic tubes to store individual doses. I portion the beans into the tubes after roasting. The grinder works great. Open lid, dump in dose, turn on switch and grind into cup. The one issue I had was transferring from the cup to the portafilter. The grinds would often pile up on one side of the portafilter and there would be some static keeping maybe .2 gram in the cup. I decided to dose directly into the portafilter. I purchased a Descent portafilter holder and a dosing funnel. I mounted the holder under the Niche spout. Now I put the funnel on the portafilter, put the filter on the stand and grind. I tap the portafilter on a rubber mat to settle the grinds, remove the funnel then tamp. Very consistent results and easy to integrate into your workflow because you do not have to watch the grinder, just wait until all beans are ground. Highly recommend the Niche as well as the Eureka 75 I purchased.
    argh this response came too late!! I already have the grinder now. I already know what you’re talking about.

    I actually got the 22g IMS Basket too I had a laugh. Went through quite a bit of coffee dialling in but wow does this machine make good coffee. Steaming was lightning quick too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    argh this response came too late!! I already have the grinder now. I already know what you’re talking about.
    I was watching a video from WholeLatteLove. The grinder has a button behind portafilter holder, push once for single, two for double or keep depressed for manual.

    It looks well thought out?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    I was watching a video from WholeLatteLove. The grinder has a button behind portafilter holder, push once for single, two for double or keep depressed for manual.

    It looks well thought out?
    Perhaps it isn't:

    Quote Originally Posted by PARNYCoffee View Post
    I could not get the grinder to be consistent. I would get it dialed in then next day I would get a 5 second gusher. Went through pounds of coffee and gave up. As soon as I switched back to an old grinder with the same coffee, no issues.

    I also found the ECM user interface to be exceedingly frustrating to use. Setting the dosing time is tricky because you have to press buttons in a specific sequence but you only have a very short time to press each button before the grinder resets. You can learn it but not sure why the buttons reset so quickly. Next issue, when you dose by time, you frequently need to top up. On the Eureka, you press the manual button and dose. Alternatively, on the Eureka, I set the single shot, which I do not use, to .1 sec and dose a "single" to add a gram or so. With the ECM, you cannot set the single below one second, so you are dosing 4 grams or so. The instructions say you can also manual dose by starting a timed dose, then hitting the start/stop switch again to stop the dosing. Not easy to do. If you push the switch once, wait a half second while you top up (1/2 sec = about 2 grams) then press it again to stop, the machine thinks you pressed the button twice and doses a double all over the counter. You need to wait about a second before stopping the dosing so you are topping up with 4 grams. The only way I found to top up is to put the machine in manual mode, sequencing through the same finicky buttons to get into manual mode. When you are done, you have to reverse this.
    flashpixx likes this.

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    Yes, press once for single dose and tap twice quickly for double. That works fine. The issue is you have to change the dose timing all the time as the beans age, you change beans.... You also need to top up if you grind less than planned. Changing the timing is not intuitive and is a pain but doable. Topping up a short dose is much worse. You cannot set the single dose to say .1 second and use it to top up. Minimum time is 1 second which grinds about 4 grams. You are supposed to be able to tap the button after starting grinding to stop it. This does not work for topping up because you want a few tenths of a second of grinding and tapping the button to stop grinding that quickly makes the grinder think you want a full double shot. The only way to top up is to reset the grinder to manual mode, grind then reset to timed dose, a cumbersome and slow process. They sacrificed usability for the aesthetics of two small buttons and a very tiny display. Not one of the Youtube videos demonstrating the grinder discuss these issues, just the positive aspects of the grinder.


    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    I was watching a video from WholeLatteLove. The grinder has a button behind portafilter holder, push once for single, two for double or keep depressed for manual.

    It looks well thought out?



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