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Thread: Quamar M80E grind problem

  1. #1
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    Question Quamar M80E grind problem

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi,

    I recently bought a second hand Quamar M80E grinder for using at home. I am not able to set the grind fine enough for espresso, and I am on the finest setting where I cannot hear the burrs touch (i.e. if I dial any finer then the burrs are audibly touching). I completely cleaned the machine and the burrs (I took the burrs out to do this), but to no avail. Does anyone on the forum have any ideas what I can further try to do to fix this?

    The machine was actually quite clean inside (i.e. no coffee oils or grease), and the burrs feel sharp (seems like new burrs were put in recently) so I do not think new burrs will improve things. The motor sounds fine and the inside of the machine looks OK. The machine on the outside however shows quite some wear (except for the totally new and pristine bean hopper), so maybe the machine has been used in a cafe for a long time and has done many hundreds kilo's of beans and it is simply worn beyond its useful life. The total counter on the M80E display menu had only a total of 189 shots so that was clearly reset (that should have rang alarm bells I guess). Anyways, before I throw the machine in the bin (and take my loss), is there anything I could check or try to see whether I could get some use out of it (for grinding for an espresso)?

    Thanks,
    Erik

  2. #2
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    G'day Erik...

    Are you able to detect any lateral or axial movement of the motor output shaft (using a dial gauge), with the rotating burr removed?
    It could be that the bearings are worn and prevent the grinder from being able to consistently grind within a reasonable particle size range.

    Bearings are not expensive and can be removed easily with the appropriate bearing pullers, etc...
    Might be worth pursuing?

    Mal.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    When were your beans roasted and how have they been stored?


    Java "Gotta use good beans!" phile
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    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    When you say you can hear the burrs touching if you set it any finer, is that with beans or without? I've used a few grinders that touch burrs empty but won't touch at the same setting with beans in it. The beans force the burrs apart more taking up the slack.

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I've used a few grinders that touch burrs empty but won't touch at the same setting with beans in it. The beans force the burrs apart more taking up the slack.
    Not a good scenario though. A recipe for inconsistent particle size if ever there was one...

    Mal.

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Either way it's too late to change if that is the case, and if it is it needs to be taken into account.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    G'day Erik...

    Are you able to detect any lateral or axial movement of the motor output shaft (using a dial gauge), with the rotating burr removed?
    It could be that the bearings are worn and prevent the grinder from being able to consistently grind within a reasonable particle size range.

    Bearings are not expensive and can be removed easily with the appropriate bearing pullers, etc...
    Might be worth pursuing?

    Mal.
    Thanks for the tip. I will source a gauge to measure. The 'play' in the axle is actually what I was fearing, but with just 'manual wiggling' I can not feel the play. I should measure more accurately as you said. Replacing bearings should be feasible, so I will definitely try that if I can measure lateral movement.

    An other possibility I can think of is that the shaft is (ever so slightly) bent, or there is flex in the shaft and the 'guidance feet' are worn too much to prevent bending.

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erdehaas View Post
    An other possibility I can think of is that the shaft is (ever so slightly) bent
    Using a dial gauge will pick that up too of course....

    Regarding Javaphile's question above, are you using freshly roasted, high quality beans? Old and stale beans can also cause the result you are observing. Easier to address than my suggestion before going too much further...

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Using a dial gauge will pick that up too of course....

    Regarding Javaphile's question above, are you using freshly roasted, high quality beans? Old and stale beans can also cause the result you are observing. Easier to address than my suggestion before going too much further...

    Mal.
    Good beans are indeed a must. I was using quite nice beans (Fiori, roasted 30/12) that makes excellent espresso when using my (21 year old) Rancillio Rocky grinder. I did a compare of the grind from the M80E and the Rocky, and was not able to get close to the grind I dialed in on the Rocky.

  10. #10
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erdehaas View Post
    I was using quite nice beans (Fiori, roasted 30/12)
    These would be at their absolute limit with what I would interpret as Freshly Roasted.
    Most CSers would consider beans over three weeks from the roasted date, as past their best.

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erdehaas View Post
    Good beans are indeed a must. I was using quite nice beans (Fiori, roasted 30/12) that makes excellent espresso when using my (21 year old) Rancillio Rocky grinder. I did a compare of the grind from the M80E and the Rocky, and was not able to get close to the grind I dialed in on the Rocky.
    One's a 50mm class burr and the other is a 60mm class burr. So theres no basic reason why you cant get a good result from this grinder. Tho I have touched a Quamar S50...but it was a stepped grinder adjustment.

    If I buy a 2nd hand grinder I always replace the burr set Unless I am absolutely convinced with written evidence that the burrs have been recently replaced and are still serviceable.

    You say 'cant grind fine enough without burrs touching' .
    Upon reading this my mind questions whether this was straight after the clean out or After further grinding / resetting. Which then begs the question that a part bean can be stuck in the burrs and sound like a burr touch.
    In recalibrating the grind setting - Did you true zero the burrs once reassembled? And mark it up as a reference point?
    Having then marked that up, then marked up a number of trial grind points - out from there?
    If you cant get full control over your pour with a known good fresh bean - as Mal referred to an unknown roaster could be using 4yr old commercial grade beans - NO I'm not inferring, but at this stage a known good reputable roaster with a fresh roast 14 - 20 days is where Id be starting.
    Once you have a good control over the pour, i.e. a starting point grind setting....well then it is up to each persons taste / preference for what they prefer, age etc. But at least you can then easily recalibrate from that point with a known result likely.
    * Also it will make it much easier assessing your pour rate if you correctly identify the maximum dose rate for your basket and accurately Stick with that dose whilst your dialling in the grinder.
    Remember the dose rate / over the grind setting is the formula. Most people here don't respect that dosing - even 0.6-0.8g in a 21g dose will have an effect. Multiply that with fluffing around with a little bit this way oops maybe back a touch ....omg what do I do now - oh ill just wind it up more thata way...
    You get the drift..accuracy in equals consistency out.
    Mark, record, assess, time /weigh etc. but then taste. Let the taste guide you first and foremost.
    GL
    Last edited by EspressoAdventurer; 1 Week Ago at 11:22 AM.
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