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Thread: quick advice - harrar

  1. #1
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    quick advice - harrar

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Im about to do my first roast of the longberry. ive searched the threads and found some info.

    Just wondering if anyone has a preferred profile as a starting point?

    cheers,

    sd

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    I did one of the Harar that I had which was MAO Blue Horse variety, not the Longberry one, basically the aim I had was to pull the roast just shy of second crack.
    I dont think pre-heating the corretto makes a difference but in this particular roast I pre-heated the BM chamber for 3 minutes on a low HG setting and loaded the beans when the probe in the empty chamber was showing 127 degrees.
    The temp then dropped to 60.6 C and then started rising again. FC has hardly discernible and happened somewhere between the 11 and 12 minute mark and I pulled the roast just before the 17 minute mark at the temp of 218.6 C (before SC).
    Being a light roast I expected some acidity but I was very pleasantly surprised to get distinct chocolate flavours instead which Id normally expect to get with darker roasts.
    Dont know if it will work for the harrar longberry but Id be looking to replicate that for my harar roasts.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    cheers...Ill probably take it to the 1st snaps of SC just to get a baseline temp. thanks again.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Hi guys,

    Just finished roasting 1kg of this Harar. Have been looking forward to this one since we ran out of our other Harar (MAO Blue Horse - same one NtE mentioned above) a month or two ago...


    In terms of roasting strategies, we found with the Blue Horse that the fruitiness is emphasised if you push FC before 10mins (aim for 9-9:30). We also tended to stop it around SC something like 6-7 minutes later. Pushing 30 seconds into SC is good but when we took it any further than that the flavours got dull and ashy very quickly. Not sure if any of these tactics apply to the Longberry though!


    The kilo of Longberry we just roasted went something like:
    - gentle for 2mins (to 100C)
    - reached FC at 9:30 (on the dot!) at 197C
    - lowered the heat and coasted into SC at 15:50
    - pulled the roast at 16:00 (I like round numbers)

    Very even roast (apart from the ~5% of "quakers" - pale beans that ended up at CS5-6). 95% of the beans were at CS9. They smelled very tasty - with some fresh, fruity aromas. Cant (and probably wont) wait to taste them!

    Cheers
    Stuart.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E49485C4F495A4F5C53493D0 link=1233654713/3#3 date=1233835257
    In terms of roasting strategies, we found with the Blue Horse that the fruitiness is emphasised if you push FC before 10mins (aim for 9-9:30).
    Gday Stuart,

    Are referring to Rolling First Crack(RFC) at this time or the first couple of cracks?

    Mal.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    I do agree with the others, re pulling this at or just shy of SC, especially if you want to enhance the characteristic fruit & acidity.

    Generally Ill try and hit FC around the 13-15min mark, they are a pretty hard bean and I think they benefit from slightly slower profiles.

    Ill just add that IMHO thay can be pushed well into SC where the acid becomes more like a concentrated dried fruit flavour and you get heaps of chocolatey goodness and a better body.

    Blending these two profiles together [I have yet to try this seriously] would be great too.


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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Thanks for the responses! *I bought 15kg of this in an attempt to rule out one more factor in the overall process. *Im going to focus on this bean and the Waghi AA when it turns up... *:)

    My first roast wasnt too bad. *Im just adjusting to the new Breville Big Loaf with the double paddles and wider opening. *600g batches and longer lag times when you adjust the heat gun height.

    Anyway,
    FC was from 9:40 to 11:20 (195-202deg).
    SC happened a little faster than ideal 15:16 (214.5deg)
    It was a quiet SC and started slowly so it caught me a little of guard. *I ended up pulling at 16:00 which was just before RSC.

    Day 2: *Good body and quite chocolaty. *No clear fruit notes but Im hoping they come soon...Will try to pull earlier next time.

    Reubster -- Ive heard 2 conflicting theories regarding hard beans. *
    1) They like a slower roast to FC to penetrate the bean completely.
    2) They like higher heat to penetrate the bean.
    These seem to be at odds with each other???

    cheers,

    sd


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    Senior Member Pavoniboy's Avatar
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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F515357594558595F573C0 link=1233654713/6#6 date=1233884035
    Reubster -- Ive heard 2 conflicting theories regarding hard beans. *
    1) They like a slower roast to FC to penetrate the bean completely.
    2) They like higher heat to penetrate the bean.
    These seem to be at odds with each other???
    My simple physics knowledge would suggest slow to penetrate the bean. Similar to cooking steak etc., if there is a very high heat it will cook the outside before the inside gets a chance to heat up. However too slow will ruin it also.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Quote Originally Posted by 696E6F7B686E7D687B746E1A0 link=1233654713/3#3 date=1233835257
    apart from the ~5% of "quakers" - pale beans that ended up at CS5-6
    yes I noticed there were a large number of pale beans in there. I probbly got about 1/2 handful in 600gms,which I chucked. Looking up defects, I didnt think this would be referred to as quakers. I thought this is generally categorised as faded/old crop?

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F58594D5E584B5E4D42582C0 link=1233654713/3#3 date=1233835257
    (apart from the ~5% of "quakers" - pale beans that ended up at CS5-6)
    Wait ... youre not saying that the latest lot of harrar has that many quakers in it, are you?

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Hi all,

    Quote Originally Posted by 74595D515C300 link=1233654713/4#4 date=1233842507
    Gday Stuart,

    Are referring to Rolling First Crack(RFC) at this time or the first couple of cracks?

    Mal.
    Hi Mal, thanks for clarifying. When I say "first crack time", I generally mean the definitive beginning of FC (ie. the first snap, provided its not one of those "rogue" beans that cracks a minute before any of its fellows!). For rolling first crack, you can invariably just add 30-60 seconds to that time, Ive found. In this case, I seem to remember that the roast moved smoothly into RFC at around 10mins (~30 seconds later).


    Quote Originally Posted by 5C455351300 link=1233654713/9#9 date=1233921877
    Wait ... youre not saying that the latest lot of harrar has that many quakers in it, are you?
    Hi Luca - no, I was referring to the Blue Horse Harar... and maybe 5% is too high (I guess that would be one in twenty), so maybe 1-2% is more accurate?

    The Longberry did have some quakers - but not too many.



    FWIW, I never thought of quakers as a defect, per se - just a result of different (dry-) processing...

    Very interested if anyone has more info on Damians suggestion that theyre from old crop (or some other defect)... We were shocked by the number of quakers in our first few batches of the Ethiopian Gambella Sundried, but ever since we picked them out and cupped them alongside the "normal" beans, we decided to leave the quakers in! They tasted good, though different, and should add some complexity. See this thread for more info on that experiment.

    Cheers
    Stuart.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    I dont know what they are. But a quick search gives:

    FADED BEANS

    Faded beans can be a result of either over drying or absorbing excessive moisture, depending on the environment. Either way, faded beans have a low resistance to environmental factors.

    The effect on the roast is that they give a dull roast regardless of the roasting profile. The result is a soft bean with musty and woody flavors in the cup. And, the percentage moisture loss will be very high. The color of these beans is pale, whitish brown.

    Normally, they result from beans that have a high moisture content (11% - 13%) and when stored in a warehouse, theyll tend to dry out. In the process of drying out, and because they are not in contact with direct sunshine, these beans tend to fade.

    Instead of drying, these beans are actually rotting and developing molds inside. Its these molds that cause the beans to dry excessively, producing their pale to whitish brown color.

    In addition, during the drying of wet or dry processed beans, the coffee can be negatively affected if not properly exposed to sunshine at the appropriate stage in the drying process.

    Another cause is when coffee has been over-hulled using a hammer mill. In this case, the beans will come out with a dull color as a result of the outer cells being bruised and microscopic dust permeating the outer layer of the beans.

    One final factor that can contribute to the fading of coffee is from older coffee that has been kept in a warehouse for two to three years or more, causing the beans to dry out, develop molds and other negative consequences.

    and:

    IMMATURE BEANS

    Picked under-ripe, often as a result of overbearing and drought affected conditions, the characteristics of immature beans include a rough surface and greenish color with a sticky silver skin and will usually have thin edges.

    The roast will be very dull, with open center-cuts, soft beans and subsequently produce no acidity, heavy body, with greenish and grassy flavors.

    These beans can also lead to Quakers in the roast; visible only after roasting by their pale appearance and flat peanut butter taste. Avoiding the purchase of immature beans is the best way to avoid contamination by these defective beans.

    I think what I have in the ethipian harrar longberry relates more to faded description (someone correct me if I am wrong). I have no idea how they affect the taste, but pulled them out anyway.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    i had some lighter beans as well in my 600g batch, but I thought it may have been my new breadmaker or my technique...maybe not.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Just opened my first bag of Longberry this morning, there was a little colour variation on some beans, I threw out about 5 or 6 of the really pale ones after roasting. It was about the third roast the other night so not like the Hottop wasnt heated well. Taken about 10-20 seconds into SC.

    Taste in a Latte this morning 8-)

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Hi,

    After it reached FC at 9:30 at 197C, you lowered the heat, so how far did u drop the Temp to?

    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by 2522233724223124373822560 link=1233654713/3#3 date=1233835257
    Hi guys,

    Just finished roasting 1kg of this Harar. Have been looking forward to this one since we ran out of our other Harar (MAO Blue Horse - same one NtE mentioned above) a month or two ago...


    In terms of roasting strategies, we found with the Blue Horse that the fruitiness is emphasised if you push FC before 10mins (aim for 9-9:30). We also tended to stop it around SC something like 6-7 minutes later. Pushing 30 seconds into SC is good but when we took it any further than that the flavours got dull and ashy very quickly. Not sure if any of these tactics apply to the Longberry though!


    The kilo of Longberry we just roasted went something like:
    - gentle for 2mins (to 100C)
    - reached FC at 9:30 (on the dot!) at 197C
    - lowered the heat and coasted into SC at 15:50
    - pulled the roast at 16:00 (I like round numbers)

    Very even roast (apart from the ~5% of "quakers" - pale beans that ended up at CS5-6). 95% of the beans were at CS9. They smelled very tasty - with some fresh, fruity aromas. Cant (and probably wont) wait to taste them!

    Cheers
    Stuart.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Hi summercrema,

    When I said "lowered the heat", I mean that I set the (variable-temp) HG to ~350C instead of ~500C - but thats not very helpful to you unless youre using all the same equipment. Variables include ambient temp, bean load, bean type, HG model, particular HG (our old HG - same model - needed slightly higher settings for same temp output!), BM size etc etc...

    What I can say is that our temps are as follows:
    - generally reach 100C by 2 minutes
    - then get to 150C at about 5 minutes
    - tend to get 10C/minute thereafter (these temps may seem weird, but they are what we get without adjusting the HG setting much if at all).
    - aim to reach 200C at 10min (approx)
    - when I see smoke or otherwise suspect that FC is nigh (say, at 195C), Ill lower the HG setting a little so that the recorded temp rise slows (it otherwise tends to accelerate leading up to FC)
    - during FC/RFC, Ill progressively lower the heat such that the temp rises no more than ~5C in the next 2 minutes or so.
    - again, without having to adjust the HG setting, the temp begins to rise again after 2-3mins (not sure why this is - may be a quirk of our particular set up).
    - once about 215C is reached, SC is imminent, even if it happens at 220C (the temp tends to accelerate very suddenly of its own accord at this point).
    - as such, I aim to reach 215C or so about 6-7 minutes after FC began (nominally 5-6 minutes after RFC).


    Is that any help at all? Temps are obviously very dependent on your setup...
    Cheers
    Stuart

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    FWIW, I should add that weve been sampling the Harar - unfortunately it all got blended 50/50 with some Sumatra Tobasa Premium so these observations are a little flawed... Weve found it to be very light on the fruit at this roast level. Bit sad, since Harar = fruit, for me! Next time well be trying an over all gentler roast, and stopping just shy of SC.

    Stu.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Definately better closer to 7 days rather than when opened at 5 days. Better Crema and flavours. I would like to see how it goes at 10 but this one is not going to last that long ;)

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Quote Originally Posted by 6166626D656F7A6A6D64030 link=1233654713/17#17 date=1234162057
    Definately better closer to 7 days rather than when opened at 5 days. Better Crema and flavours. I would like to see how it goes at 10 but this one is not going to last that long *;)

    I am opening my Harar at 10 days now and finding it tastes much better than one I opened up at 5 days.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Hi all,

    I roasted my first batches of Harrar lastnight. The results were not what I expected. The roast appeared to be quite mottled. However after reading the other posts in this thread It appears that maybe some of the beans were quakers? (I must say I havent heard this term before).

    Any sugestions for a first time Harrar roaster. I have roasted a lot of Yirgachaffe and I assumed they would be quite similar. I guess not.

    Nick

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Just opened my first roast of Yirg this morning, smooth even looking roast with a nice oil sheen (10 days post) on the other hand the Harrar was a bit all over the place by comparison. Of the two maybe just the Harrar but the grinder was only just getting dialed in after the second shot (finer than the Harrar)

    Roasting another batch tonight with macro photos (yes I have no life) will post them up later.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Quote Originally Posted by 312724263127273B383B223126540 link=1233654713/19#19 date=1234484527
    Hi all,

    I roasted my first batches of Harrar lastnight. The results were not what I expected. The roast appeared to be quite mottled. However after reading the other posts in this thread It appears that maybe some of the beans were quakers? (I must say I havent heard this term before).

    Any sugestions for a first time Harrar roaster. I have roasted a lot of Yirgachaffe and I assumed they would be quite similar. I guess not.

    Nick

    Hi Nick.

    Some (or maybe all?) Yirgacheffes are wet-processed - not sure about the one youre roasting, but if it is wet-processed, that will explain the roasting differences with Harar (which is dry-processed). Wet processing seems to produce a more uniform bean - as the quakers and other (allegedly) defective beans float or sink and aer separated from the "good" beans. OTOH, dry-processing produces a lot of the characterful flavours we love in Harar (and many other African beans).


    I too got lots of pale beans in my roasts of the Harar Longberry (2-3% - I know because I decided to pick them out to taste the difference; results to follow on that experiment...). It may be disconcerting, but dont worry about it! Harar is my favourite origin, and this is a great example (must be, Andy sold it to us!).


    Damian and I have been discussing the term "quaker" here... the consensus is that not all pale beans are quakers. I just use it because I think its a cool term :P

    Cheers
    Stuart.

    ps. I roasted more of this the other day. Two different roasts to just before SC. Ill post here when Ive cupped it.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Thanks heaps mate that puts my mind at rest.

    Do you think i would get fired if i left work now to go and taste the harrar :)

    Better wait till this arvo ;D
    I look forward to reading you results.

    Nick

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Well its Valentines day and I am roasting beans, proof I have no life but I am going out to play later ;)

    Following photos are of tonights Harrar Roast, third roast of the night in the Hottop and taken to the first beginnings of RSC. Much the same as the last roast, I have only removed the worst of the light ones postroast and the couple of obvious preroast ones.




  25. #25
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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Apart from fairly heavy chaff on some beans only a couple of suspect ones.


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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    A few of the worst Quakers ??


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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    General unsorted roast view


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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Hi all,

    Ive posted cupping notes on two Harar LB roasts here:
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1232438331/0#14

    Cheers,
    Stu.

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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Well, weve been roasting these beans for a while now. Still a mysterios bean in many ways, but learning more about what to do with it! Well have to buy another 10kg soon...

    - First roast entered SC slightly and was disappointingly fruitless.
    - Second roast was to 218C (probably 1-2 degrees before SC) and was roughly the same as above.
    - Third roast was to 214C and showed nice blueberry but tended to get lost in milk.
    - Fourth roast was to about 212C and was even more delicate - interesting to taste so much acid in a Harar.
    - Fifth roast (just then) was to 216C (15C above FC temp - thats probably what well aim for now, assuming it tastes good!) and took 17minutes (10:30 to FC). By interpolation, this roast should be ideal*.

    [* = I define "ideal" as showing the perfect balance between Harar fruitiness (esp. blueberry) and sweet, chocolatey goodness (more of a roast characteristic, I suppose).]

    Will update with cupping notes.
    Cheers,
    Stuart.

    ps. I should note that the above temperatures are not necessarily comparable... our temp probe set up is not foolproof. FWIW, first crack temps have varied between 196C and 201C. I think the difference between FC and SC temps is probably the best measure here, not the final temp (not certain on that though!).

  30. #30
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    Re: quick advice - harrar

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Gday Stuart,

    What you are aiming for is not all that difficult you know.... Why dont you try a blend of the Harrar taken to a lower temp combined with some taken to the higher temp. This is a common method used by a lot of home-roasters (and maybe some Pros) to be able to enjoy the full spectrum of flavours that a bean has to offer. If you do try this, keep each roast batch separate after bagging and once youre happy that enough time has elapsed, do some post-roast blending until such time as you strike the proportions that set your palate singing.... ;D

    Mal.



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