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Thread: first roasts in a popper

  1. #1
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    first roasts in a popper

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Today i took the plunge into home roasting with my popcorn maker.
    i did 3 roasts of 80g each.
    I heard the first crack on all and am a bit confused about 2nd one as i heard a bit of cracking so to speak , i really have no idea of what i am doing so i went on colour, most came out at about 4min20, the last one was about 4min47.
    the pics are in order - first to last.



    i will wait until Sunday night to try them, but i do have guests tomorrow night and am wondering if that is too soon.
    any comments are very welcome please, i am just happy i didn`t make a batch of charcoal. ;)

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    The first batch seems to have a lot more lighter beans and the other two batches look fairly evenly roasted.

    I suggest you keep them separate for now so you can try to taste any differences.

    I also suggest you use yourself as the guinea pig and offer your guests some next time.

    Not that they dont look good, but Id rather let them rest a few more days.

    Which popper do you have?

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Thanks mate - i thought maybe Wednesday to Friday might be the best days to try them.
    I discovered our Breville Quick Popper ( pcm25) in the back of the cupboard last week , i thought we had pitched it out about 5 yrs ago.
    So i have been keen ever since to have a go at roasting myself.
    None of the roasts actually smelt like coffee at all, is it because the time is so short ?

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Gday Lozzo,

    The journey has begun... 8-)

    Which beans are these mate? They look like they might be the Sumatran/Indonesian beans..... Anyway, the top roast looks quite uneven so its possible they could have been left a little longer; the other two roasts look pretty reasonable, just by colour.

    Second Crack(SC) can be quite difficult to pick up in the background of a poppers noisy fan but if you stand back a little, maybe a metre or two, I find it a bit easier to hear the start of the "cellophane crackling noise" that is the herald of the start of SC. You should also notice the discharge of bluish smoke from your popper just before the crackling starts.

    Best thing to do though, is to sacrifice a batch of beans and let them roast through until they are nearly black and smoking pretty heavily. This way you will discover what the various milestones are and learn what to both listen and watch out for along the way. Its tough on the poor little beans but worth it if you gain a fist full of knowledge out of it.

    Regarding using your roasts, Id reckon the 2nd and 3rd will be worth trying out on guests but maybe that 1st batch will let you down. Definitely give it a go yourself as its all part of learning about roasting and who knows, it may be quite OK. Just sos the beans will have some chance to degas and develop before your guests arrive, store them in a bag in a cool, dark place but leave the bag open. This will accelerate the development of flavours slightly and earn you more brownie points and of course.... Kudos 8-)

    All the best mate and have fun.... :)

    Mal.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Thanks Mal.
    The beans are the PNG ? the sign didn`t signify if they were any other type like the PNG wahghi say,i did ask the guy at the counter but he informed me that the main roaster wasn`t there today to find out it`s specific origin.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    When i started popper roasting i think i sacrificed about 5 batches of 100gm before i understood when SC starts.

    Have you added a chimney to your popper? I found i could increase roast size and that beans wouldnt fly out of the popper either.

    I also found that closing off part of the chimney would vary the roast results as well.

    Its all a good learning experience and best of all at the end of the day you can say you did it yourself.


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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Thanks Bolb
    yeah mate i have a baked bean chimney on the popper.
    will try different things after i get one right that i like.
    I think i will stick to 80g until i get it right.
    I am going to test my roast tomorrow morning for breakfast . we`ll see if i pour it down the sink or not! :-?

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    tried my 2nd & 3rd roast this morning , mixed them together.
    the result - pretty disgusting. very much no flavour at all, except if you call really bittter a flavour. I was optimistic, it ground well, pored really well & slow , looked great - tasted rubbish.
    Oh well - after work today i will roast some more and see what i come up with in terms of a deeper colour.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    They may still be too fresh.
    Leave them a few more days before trying again. Preferably 5.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    I tend to roast ahead to allow 5 days rest for most single origins, however I allow over 10 days for most African beans

    Lozzo
    How do they compare to the Sumatra Mandheling I roasted for you

    KK

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Well I decided today is the day - Ive procrastinated long enough (I usually procrastinate straight away)

    The equipment:

    Brazil Alterosa RFA (2 x 80g roasts)
    Tiffany Popper ($25)
    Louvre fan
    20m ext lead (I had a 3m ext lead but it isnt quite long enough and wanted to try a slower roast)

    I didnt go to too much fuss - just get stuck into it. So no timing and no temp logging

    For the first roast I didnt use a chimney, just the popper plastic cover with the fan blowing over it to ensure chaff + smoke went outside. Someone else had mentioned they did it this way to extend roast time.

    The popper went well and using the ext lead slowed down the roast so I estimated at around 10 mins for the first effort.

    I couldnt hear first crack so I was just looking for colour. Probably a little light - CS9 -but using a Brazil bean should mean that the acidity wont be high anyway. The beans were popping over the edge of the popper and I was catching them into the colander and throwing them back in. A real challenge towards the end of the roast as the beans had expanded and were lighter so were being tossed out at a higher rate.

    First roast pictured below but it was much a more even colour than shown

    Second roast I made a chimney and started roast. I could just hear first crack at around 5 or 6 mins and it seemed to take an eternity to go towards a darker roast than the first so I pulled it what I thought was about CS10.

    Weighed each batch and 80g ended up at about 66g.

    Cant wait to try these babies but Ill start at 4 days I think.

    Ill try a few more of these then get the corretto going. Ive been bitten!


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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    HI KK
    Your roast was good coffee, mine had no resemblence to coffee in taste what so ever.
    Just got home from work - off downstairs to have another crack so to speak.
    From what flynn just said above, i think mine were pulled way too early.
    I`ll see what i end up with in 1/2 hr.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    i roasted 3 batches between 6 and 7pm tonight, all 80g green, 2 Sumatran Indo & 1 PNG again.
    All finished at between 15.45min & 16min, about 20 secs after 2nd crack.
    all smell like coffee, look nice and dark all weigh in at 65-66g.
    Feeling pretty optimistic at them moment. No beans are oily or look burnt. a litttle confused as most people usining a popper re3cord about 8 min finishes - We`ll see in a couple of days.
    will post pics in the morn.
    cheers
    Jordan

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A594C4C59360 link=1241764289/12#12 date=1241952138
    a litttle confused as most people usining a popper re3cord about 8 min finishes
    Not all poppers are the same.
    Mine started at 5 mins but I modified it to last to 15 mins.

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    As mentioned, I was using a 20 metre extension lead was plugged into a power strip which also had the fan plugged into it. I imagine the longer roast time was due to the resulting drop in power.
    I will try a shorter lead next roast and see what happens then

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    flynn I dont think power drops occur in Australia with longer power leads.
    I have a 30m one that makes no difference to my popper roast times.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B273A212B2A3D28202B4F0 link=1241764289/15#15 date=1241956235
    flynn I dont think power drops occur in Australia with longer power leads.
    I have a 30m one that makes no difference to my popper roast times.
    There is always a drop / loss with any lead..

    However, depending on the quality of the lead your using and the power being consumed it may not be an issue..

    P= I2 R

    Thus *if you know the resistance of you lead, you can guesstmate the losses... *;D

    If using a low power device, it should not be too noticeable.. *However when drawing big loads it can be a big issue..

    1: 7.5 A leads are crap - Low power only <5A
    2: Standard 10A leads are OK... But length.. *< 7.5
    3: I like 15A / 20A leads with 10A plugs for long runs.. *> *10A and out to 30 - 40 M.

    PS. *Do not leave a long lead coiled up and then run heavy power.. *Get a 20 Meter lead and then coil it up, then hook it to a Welder and do some heavy runs... *(Do this at you own risk - Not recommended).

  18. #18
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 467A677C767760757D76120 link=1241764289/15#15 date=1241956235
    flynn I dont think power drops occur in Australia with longer power leads.
    Not my understanding TG (as confirmed by AM) but I will concede that there is unlikely to be much of a power drop. With evryone else getting 5 minute roasts I couldnt think of any reason why mine was at least double that. It wasnt cold and the force of the fan was quite gentle.

    I have a very good quality lead (ie thick) but not sure of the current rating; 15A I would imagine if designed to plug into a domestic power outlet.

    Quote Originally Posted by 537C7577605F737C7375777F777C66120 link=1241764289/16#16 date=1241957209
    Do not leave a long lead coiled up and then run heavy power
    Yep. understand inductance - the lead even has a warning label. I had the lead completely extended and there was no heat generated on the lead or power strip.

    I did a lot of research on popper roasting and "I read somewhere" (aka famous last words) that using an extension lead would significantly reduce the power delivery. Perhaps that is a US phenomenon.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    I understand it to be a US thing.

    A popper doesnt draw much power and therefore as AM said a drop would hardly be noticeable if it did occur.

    There are plenty of examples on CS where one member bought the same make/model popper as another and got completely different roast times.
    It was put down to differences in production runs.

    Some lucky CSers had the same popper as me and didnt need to modify to get long roast times.

    As you havent roasted before Ill guess you dont have evidence that the lead slowed the roast.
    Have you tried without the lead to compare?

  20. #20
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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 122E3328222334212922460 link=1241764289/18#18 date=1241997589
    Have you tried without the lead to compare?
    Not an option. I need a lead to be able to run the popper outdoors. The only shorter lead I had was a cheapie and wasnt quite long enough. Im happy to have a slow popper but the time taken after FC to reach even a light CS9 roast seemed too long.


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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 78726770707F6B6D1E0 link=1241764289/17#17 date=1241995855
    I have a very good quality lead (ie thick) but not sure of the current rating; 15A I would imagine if designed to plug into a domestic power outlet.
    Standard Extention lead is for 10A

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A766B707A7B6C79717A1E0 link=1241764289/18#18 date=1241997589
    I understand it to be a US thing.
    The issue with the use is Lower Voltage, thus more Current.. Then when you look at the power formula you can see why it will be more of an issue for the USA.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    In regard to the US (110V) thing they have twice the current (I or Amps) going into their gear so the losses for a given Resistance are 4 times ours using P=I^2xR

    I have run across a 1200W peak dimmer from Jaycar I am going to have a play with later this week on my popper along with a couple of other minor hacks. http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView...r&form=KEYWORD at $35 it is worth a play, also going to bypass the fan wiring to keep it as high as possible and open the air intakes up.

    snap to AM :)

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 467A677C767760757D76120 link=1241764289/18#18 date=1241997589
    There are plenty of examples on CS where one member bought the same make/model popper as another and got completely different roast times.
    It was put down to differences in production runs.
    I too am perplexed as to the long roasts i had last night .
    After reading many posts about poppers and thought that by 6mins all would be over.
    Looking at my notes from last night i saw that first crack were between 6-7 mins, and second at around 15-16mins.
    I only looked at the stop watch after 1st & 2nd only to make an estimate, as i left them in for a bout 20 secs after hearing the rustling cellophane 2nd crack. I haven`t seen any blue smoke at all, the PNG roast had some right in the first2 mins of the roast, then nothing.
    I am going to do a few more this arvo to see if the change is in the outside temp, which i undersatnd will affect things.
    I just went down to Di Bella and got a roasted version( seems to have more of a sheen on the outside of the been where mine seem dry - is that down to rest times??) of the PNG green i bought , just to compare colours and smell., the
    This morning my roasts actually smell like coffee, the Sumatra Indo has a bigger coffee smell than the PNG.
    My camera has a flat battery, so i`ll post pics later.
    So far i am having a blast trying all this out, i hope i get a drinkable cup by the weekend. :)

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A796C6C79160 link=1241764289/22#22 date=1242005568
    I too am perplexed as to the long roasts i had last night .
    Im even more perplexed as you stated in your OP that the first roasts you did were less than 5 mins.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 303A2F3838372325560 link=1241764289/23#23 date=1242006261
    too am perplexed as to the long roasts i had last night .


    Im even more perplexed as you stated in your OP that the first roasts you did wereless than 5 mins.
    I stopped way to early , as i went on colour and now know i didn`t even get to 2nd crack. What i was hearing was actually the first crack and then removing them.
    I actually set out to try and burn the beans beyond anything last night so i knew the time frame of what i could do & hear the 2 different cracks, and when after 15mins they still seemed ok i got to the 2nd crack. i know now what i am listening for. which is nice.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 1536232336590 link=1241764289/22#22 date=1242005568
    seems to have more of a sheen on the outside of the been where mine seem dry - is that down to rest times??)

    My understanding is that the longer the resting period, the more oils (sheen) come out of the bean.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 38322730303F2B2D5E0 link=1241764289/17#17 date=1241995855
    Quote Originally Posted by 537C7577605F737C7375777F777C66120 link=1241764289/16#16 date=1241957209
    Do not leave a long lead coiled up and then run heavy power
    Yep. understand inductance - the lead even has a warning label. I had the lead completely extended and there was no heat generated on the lead or power strip.
    As far as Extension Leads are concerned, it is not really anything to do with Inductance, its simply about cooling. With poor air circulation around the cable, "Hot-Spots" can be generated. Inductance can come into play though with welding leads using high current AC but not in the way you probably expect.

    Mal.

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 765B5F535E320 link=1241764289/26#26 date=1242030137
    As far as Extension Leads are concerned, it is not really anything to do with Inductance
    OK, then I dont understand inductance. :) [smiley=dankk2.gif]

    A friend couldnt completely unwind his old automatic winding vacuum cleaner lead. He used to use it only half-unwound. When we took it apart, the insulation on remaining half had pretty much fused together. I thought the heat build up was due to inductance. It was an el cheapo vacuum cleaner

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Hi Flynn,

    different issue potentially with an old Vacuum. If the cable was rubber then perishing is likely. If the bobbin holding the cable was metal then you have an created an inductor and inductors create some heat. The same thing happens if for example you are using an extension lead wound on an old tyre rim.

  30. #30
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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 3136323D353F2A3A3D34530 link=1241764289/28#28 date=1242039539
    different issue potentially with an old Vacuum
    Sheesh. I give up then . I clearly know nothing :-[

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    My PNG roast(green bean from DiBella) from last night is the first pic, the 2nd pic is the same bean bought brown from DiBella.




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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    A bit of tipping on your roast (thats the burnt round gouges in the beans)

    But hey Lozzo you did a great roast mate
    Well done

    KK

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Thanks KK
    That was a bout 15mins in the popper, did another one late this arvo lasted about 12.30min , looks the same. The Sumatran Indo looks the same also.
    How do i stop the tipping? Less time? i have been leaving it in for about 30secs after 2nd crack.


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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 6546535346290 link=1241764289/32#32 date=1242048124
    How do i stop the tipping? Less time? i have been leaving it in for about 30secs after 2nd crack.
    This is my perception (others may have more input)

    Sometimes its just not enough agitation the beans are in contact with overheated surfaces.
    Heat spots then weaken the bean at that spot & more heat does the rest
    When cracking begins it blasts off leaving tipping gouges.
    Sometimes you will get rough brown marks and splitting.

    KK

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Well actually,

    I cant notice any tipping going on, those "black gouges" are known as divots and occur during Second Crack(SC) and may be noticeably more prolific if the run into SC has been quite fast and with excessive heat applied.

    Just looking at your PNG roast there Lozzo, there dont seem to be too many divots so therefore I wouldnt be too worried about it. Tipping seems to be associated more with excessive heat applied at the start of the roast causing the edges and tips of the beans to burn before the interior of the beans have started roasting. Its one of the main reasons I start my roasts off very gently and gradually accelerate the thermal gradient up towards the onset of First Crack(FC).

    Anyway Lozzo, stick with what you were doing on that PNG roast and the end results should be decent enough after degassing and flavour development takes place. For what its worth, even some of the Pro Roasters produce divots occasionally, I know because Ive found em in packs of freshly roasted beans Ive bought from them ;)

    Cheers :)
    Mal.

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    If youre not sure whether theyve roasted through, crack one bean open with your fingers at the end of the roast, have a close sniff and a look. If it smells good, great. If it smells like hay, its too light and will give you a sour pour. If it smells quite burned (not just lightly smokey), it likely is, but is still worth resting for a few days before trying your first pour. If youre not sure, crunch it in your mouth then spit.

    If it is really hard to snap with your fingers, and feels kinda spongy when you crack it or you need something heavy to crack it and it sounds dull when you snap it, its too light. It should have a nice crisp-sounding snap.

    Hope these tips help.

  37. #37
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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E6973626B6B6E636277736F070 link=1241764289/35#35 date=1242261812
    If it smells good, great. If it smells like hay, its too light and will give you a sour pour. If it smells quite burned (not just lightly smokey), it likely is,
    Excellent tips but you might have to explain a "hay smell" to cityslickers ;)

    Any chance of including a scratch-and-sniff utility into CS Andy? ;D

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Thanks guys
    Tried my sunday night roast of PNG about 10mins ago.
    Tastes a little light in flavour but it has only been 3 days rest, not sour or bitter, i think it needs to be a bit finer in grind also, the pour was a bit fast and light, lots crema though.
    Thanks for everyone`s help.
    I am just happy i didn`t spit it out when i drank it :), a few more days and it should be better.

  39. #39
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Lozzo I know you build slot cars
    You are good at building things with your hands
    So you should be thinking about building a Hybrid Turbo Roaster
    When you get a day off and can spare the time you can see my roaster
    Even if you want to meet up at a half way point

    KK

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    sounds good to me KK.
    I have been checking around for a cheaper version of the Turbo Roaster.
    Haven`t had much luck finding one, but i haven`t checked `the bay`yet.
    I will let you know when i get some time off next to meet up, off to work now.
    cheers

  41. #41
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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Lozzo

    Just what the doctor ordered

    Just posted by another CS member
    Aldi Turbo ovens $59.00

    http://aldi.com.au/au/html/offers/2827_8343.htm?WT.mc_id=2009-05-15-05-27

    KK

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Just tried my PNG after 7 days rest - and it tastes like real coffee, quite a lot of flavour and body, i don`t claim to have a refined palate, but i like it better than the same brown bean i bought to compare flavour, mine doesn`t seem as bitter, maybe it`s just me.
    I was a little suprised at the flavour, who woulda thought a popcorn maker could give you so much more than popcorn! :)
    On Saturday night we had guests so i treated/trapped them into trying my Sumatran Indo that was 6 days old, i was surprised to actually tatse the choclatey flavour that i was told about when i bought it green.
    This home roasting business is brilliant, thanks to all here.
    My wife maybe not so much, the kitchen cupboard smells of coffee all the time!

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    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F2C39392C430 link=1241764289/41#41 date=1242604187
    This home roasting business is brilliant, thanks to all here.
    My wife maybe not so much,the kitchen cupboard smells of coffee all the time
    And if you decide to sell your home
    I read somewhere in a real estate facts & myths publication that coffee aroma helps to sell ones home quicker
    I wonder if that is true ?? :-/

    Dont forget to roast ahead to allow for degassing

    KK

  44. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    181

    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Just finished doing 5 x 80g batches.
    did 3x 80g on Saturday morning.
    and some last monday and wednesday.
    hopefully i should be alright for a little longer.


  45. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    North Rothbury, NSW
    Posts
    1,104

    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Quote Originally Posted by 02262F2F2C2C1602263A2426490 link=1241764289/42#42 date=1242605939

    I read somewhere in a real estate facts & myths publication that coffee aroma helps to sell ones home quicker
    I wonder if that is true ?? *:-/

    KK

    Yep, have heard the same. That and freshly baked bread.

  46. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    181

    Re: first roasts in a popper

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    When we sold our first house, we had a tip from a friend who said remove all clutter from coffee tables and kitchen benches etc, like a spec home then make some coffe to fill the house with a nice aroma.
    It seemed to have worked, sign went up Friday at 4pm signed contract MOnday morning after a Saturday open house following the above rules.



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