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Thread: Virgin roaster

  1. #1
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    Virgin roaster

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    This weekend I intend to do my first roast . Andys starter kit of beans arrived today, and I guess Im seeking advice or inspiration from other roasting snobbers.

    I have been sent 4 *bags I was wondering if virgins are better off roasting one in preference to another.
    My options are .... Malawi AA / Peru Ceja de Selva Estate /Guatemala Huehuetenanga SHB / Ethiopian Gambella sundried .....

    Any advice first up ....

    Cheers
    hotshod

  2. #2
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Flip a coin and go for it :D
    The Ethiopian Gambella sundried will have lots of chaff
    South Americans normally have chocolate flavours

    What roast method are you using

    KK

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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Bread Maker *& Heat gun combo with Thermocouple.

    I Havent drilled the BM ..... so I might just run the K thermocouple string down the side of the tub.( Other half is no too happy about drilling the BM )

    Also would it be a good idea to do a dummy run with some old beans to get a feel for how the heat behaves in that environment.?

    cheers

  4. #4
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    I just started roasting last week with the same method. Just jump in and go for it. Youll be surprised how simple (and fun) it really is. Listen for the cracks, get them out quickly after SC and cool them as quick as you can. Make sure your thermocouple is a few cms from the edge of the breadpan so you get an accurate reading of the bean temp.

    I started with the Malawi AAs first up, but have roasted some Ethiopians & Guatemalans since... all cupped great.

  5. #5
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F7863647F7873170 link=1244813575/2#2 date=1244814542
    Bread Maker *& Heat gun combo with Thermocouple.

    I Havent drilled the BM ..... so I might just run the K thermocouple string down the side of the tub.( Other half is no too happy about drilling the BM )

    Also would it be a good idea to do a dummy run with some old beans to get a feel for how the heat behaves in that environment.?
    Gday hotshod ....

    If you need to suspend the bead t/c cable vertically into the bread pan, try tying it to a piece of 6mm dowel or as TG has suggested, the shaft of an up-ended wooden spoon. You can then clamp this to the side of the pan with a small bull-dog clip or similar.

    I wouldnt worry about trying to do a dummy run mate. Once youve got your t/c positioned and fixed, load up the BM with between 500-600g of beans, set the heatgun nozzle about level with the top of the pan and then go for it. You need to aim for a ball-park temperature gradient of between 14-16C/minute so that you reach Rolling First Crack(RFC) in about 12-14 minutes. Reduce the heat at this point to no more than 4-5C/minute. This will ensure that FC doesnt stall and that the batch cruises up into the start of Second Crack (sounds like cellophane being squashed in your hands). Raise/lower or adjust the heat output of your heatgun to achieve these gradients. Depending on the dynamics of your particular setup, you should notice the first few Snaps of FC (sounds like popcorn popping) from around 190-205C and then SC at anything from 215-225C.

    This is an easy method to use when starting off and can be used to good effect with most bean types. Id take all of your first roasts to the start of SC until you learn more about the processes of roasting and the various flags that herald the onset of milestones throughout the roast progression. Big thing though, is to keep accurate and meaningful records of each of the roasts you do, including follow-up cupping notes/impressions so that you know what targets to aim for next time you roast the same beans and where to make singular, small changes if you want to experiment a bit.
    All of the beans in your sample pack are excellent beans and will produce terrific S.O. espresso, syphon, pour-over brew, etc. The Malawi and Peruvian beans will be quite straight forward to roast with the Ethiopian not being too bad either. The Huehuetenango being a Strictly Hard Bean(SHB) seem to do better with a slightly slower gradient to FC than the others (in a Corretto at least), say about 14 minutes to the start of RFC and then the same deal from there to the start of SC.

    The main thing to remember though, its heaps of fun and really very interesting. I love it and still get excited before every roast I do.... Have fun ;D

    Mal.

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    Re: Virgin roaster

    WHAT A DISASTER............

    WHAT A TOTAL DISASTER ......... >:(

    Got some questions .....

    1...How on earth do you hear First & Second crack with the racket that the swirling Breadmaker makes + a heat gun roaring away ???
    2...Breville BM, model BeanBay 270 .... everyting stopped at 19 min ..... with E:01 message on the LCD ...( swear , did I bloody swear or wot!!!,. wife ran away )...
    >:( .... :(...... >:(
    3... Is 18* too cold for this activity ..... I struggled to get past 200*c ..... had to place a piece of timber on the BM top opening , restricting about a third ..... temp did go to 226*...... before the mongrel stopped ...E:01.
    4... Is E:01 .... an over heating motor ?????

    After the 19 min I pulled them , with no choice ,beans look quite under done ......more cussing on the sabbath !!!!
    Up to a point everything ran how it should apart from no FC,SC ( that I heard), and BM going to lunch.... Temp progression was good and controlable ...

    Help and inspiration sought ......

    hotshod ......
    :-/

  7. #7
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 537E7A767B170 link=1244813575/4#4 date=1244821652
    If you need to suspend the bead t/c cable vertically into the bread pan, try tying it to a piece of 6mm dowel or as TG has suggested, the shaft of an up-ended wooden spoon. *
    Mal I actually attached mine to the inside of the spoons bowl and faced the back of the spoon into the pan to shield the probe from direct heat from the gun. I figured Id get a truer, more stable reading.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F7863647F7873170 link=1244813575/5#5 date=1244966568
    How on earth do you hear First & Second crack with the racket that the swirling Breadmaker makes + a heat gun roaring away ???
    Im completely deaf in one ear and can hear the cracks.

    I also have a pedestal fan blowing over the lot at the same time to disperse the chaff and keep the gun from overheating.

    Your BM or gun may be particularly loud.

  8. #8
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Gday hotshod....

    Shame about the BM giving out on you. Regarding the problems related to achieving the desired temperature gradients, this might be related to your particular heatgun. I know with the heatguns Ive used over time, units with a thermal output rating of 2,000W seem to get the job done alright and at ambient temperatures a lot less than 18C.

    With the BM, you will need to disable a thermal sensor thats designed to interrupt an over-temperature situation in the BM with normal use. I dont have one of these BMs though, so will leave that for someone else to describe how to do it.

    Given that you may not have reached First Crack(FC), perhaps this is moot but Ive found if you sit away from the Corretto (about 1.0-1.5 Mts away) it is much easier to hear the snaps and crackles of cracking beans. Anyway mate, once you get the BM sorted out and confirm what your heatgun is supposed to be capable of, we should be able to help you out. All the best and dont give up.... :)

    Mal.

  9. #9
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 467A677C767760757D76120 link=1244813575/6#6 date=1244972259
    Mal I actually attached mine to the inside of the spoons bowl and faced the back of the spoon into the pan to shield the probe from direct heat from the gun. I figured Id get a truer, more stable reading.
    I had a laugh.... ;D

    I use a short piece of 6mm dowel and a bulldog paper clip, didnt really think of using the spoon end... Good one mate 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Thanks for the encouragement ...

    I gave the dowel idea a miss and drilled the BM ......and stuck a solid probe in there .
    I had a fan ready to use but was struggling to reach desired heat ..... Fan when turned on would easily knock 15 + degress of the bucket temp.

    Are you guys using covers or lids on the BMs to retain heat?

    Greg

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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Hotshod,

    Increasing your batch size can make a considerable difference. What size batch did you use?
    I have also just started coretto roasting and increasing my batch size just 100g from 300g to 400g has made a huge difference. Thermocouple placing also plays a huge part. If you are aiming for a specific curve, you could be >10degC away from where you think you are simply because the thermocouple is sitting above the bed of beans.
    18 degrees is definitely fine - I was roasting in 15degrees today and it was fine.

    Good luck with the next batch.

    Cheers,
    Ben

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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Oops,

    Missed your post re drilling breakmaker.

    However, I am not using a lid on the BM and I am easily getting to temperature with my 2000W variable temp ozito HG. It sits about 1-2cm above the BM bin and never goes above 60-70% maximum.

    Let us know how you go with the next roast!

    Cheers,
    Ben

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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Hi there
    If the fan blowing across the BM can drop the temp by 10deg then perhaps you have the fan blowing to fast over the BM causing it to lift or drag the hot air out of the bread pan??
    I have a pedestal fan on one and it sits 1m away from the gun and bread pan and this is enough to cool the HG and disperse the chaff with no effect on the actual heat output of the gun itself.

    I too use the solid prob and went to try and lower the level of the prob as i think its too high but found the element of the BM gets in the way so will try and lower it a little more next weekend and then run another roast to see what happens.

    I have just moved up from doing 500gm roasts to 600gm roasts in an effort to gain bettter temperature control as i am findingn the temp will increase then drop 2deg then increase and then drop. This occurs from about 160deg through to the end of the roast at about 225deg.

    Not sure what is causing it yet hence why i increased the batch size to ensure the probe is not at the top of the bean mass.

    Mal

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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Appreciate all the help here ....

    *Virgin 1st batch ..... 250g
    *External fan was at lowest setting about half a metre away
    *Heat Gun is Ryobi 1600W ... 2 settings 600*/400*
    *Probe is about 10mm higher than I wanted ,as element was in the way.

    Now I neeed to confirm if E:01 is a motor cutout due to heat and then disarm ....... or attack the sides and let the fan cool motor......
    I have opened up the control panel , just cant pick out the over heat wire set up ..... Anyone !!

    Thanks
    Greg

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    Re: Virgin roaster

    I would try and get the probe below the element if you can.
    Thats going to be my job next weekend, if the side of the BM has a stack of holes in it i guess its just going to add character to the whole setup.

    Mal

  16. #16
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 7D7A61667D7A71150 link=1244813575/9#9 date=1244974053
    Are you guys using covers or lids on the BMs to retain heat?
    Im not.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7D7A61667D7A71150 link=1244813575/13#13 date=1244981403
    Probe is about 10mmhigher than I wanted ,as element was in the way.
    Remove the element.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7D7A61667D7A71150 link=1244813575/13#13 date=1244981403
    just cant pick out the over heat wire set up
    Mine had a sensor on the side wall of the BM that fitted into a recess with a cover over it to hold the sensor in place.
    If yours is the same youll see two wires (probably the same colour) going into the recess and back out to the circuit board.
    Just remove it from its spot and put is as far from there as the wires allow.

  17. #17
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    OK guys .... really , really appreciate the help

    2nd session about to happen ...... but this time it will be a dummy run with the beans I stuffed yesterday .....

    I forgot to mention , Im using the HG extension that flares the air flow , IE it is about 75mm wide. ... Is this a good option or not important ????

    Overnite mods are ....
    *Lowered the probe , its about 1/3rd the way up the paddle height,22mm from bucket base.
    *Found heat sensor , had to leave it connected in order for BM to run , but have moved it away from bucket to the other side of the BM and have it cable tied out of the way

    Current temp is 16* .... OK
    with extremely light, very occasional drizzle, almost none ... more just dampish ..... Is that OK ???

    Cheers all

  18. #18
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Theres a quote that a guy at work always attaches to his email. I cant stand it but in this case I think that it is quite appropriate.

    "Youre on the road to success when you realize that failure is merely a detour" - WGP

    Dont worry too much about failing. My first roasts in a corretto were a disaster. Keep trying and learn from mistakes (failures is probably a better word).

    16 degrees should be fine. I have roasted when it was 4 degrees and no problem, although I do cover the pan and the heat gun is 2000W. Having said that, the heat gun is on the high setting for about 3mins out of the 16mins.

    If you know anyone that is electronically minded getting the BM bypassed (switch that turns the paddle motor on and off) would be a good idea.

    Do you have any pics? Members might be able to give better advice.

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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Quote Originally Posted by 2E2932352E2922460 link=1244813575/13#13 date=1244981403
    Appreciate all the help here ....

    *Virgin 1st batch ..... 250g
    *External fan was at lowest setting about half a metre away
    *Heat Gun *is Ryobi *1600W ... 2 settings 600*/400*
    *Probe is about 10mm *higher than I wanted ,as element was in the way.

    Now I neeed to confirm if E:01 *is a motor cutout due to heat and then disarm ....... or attack the sides and let the fan cool motor......
    I have opened up the control panel , just cant pick out *the over heat wire set up ..... Anyone !!

    Thanks
    Greg
    Most likely 250g is pretty small for your BM, but check the manual and see what its rated to bake bread, and optimum should be around 60% of that.

    Larger bean mass will help cover the probe more, and should insulate the motor from excess heat. You could also stuff some tinfoil in between the pan and the BM wall, if its crumpled a bit it should act as an insulator.

    I have a similar heat gun to you (puts out the same temps) and Ive found that a cover (metal shield from inside the BM lid) works good for me.

    I would also take off the heat gun tip, only try it out again if you really feel youre getting tipping or some other sign of uneven roast that points to the HG.


    Most importantly...did you get past first crack on your first roast? Can you chew and crunch up a bean? Or is it still nearly hard as a rock? If you got past first crack try brewing it up and seeing how it tastes, I was pretty surprised by my first "failures." Temperature profiles will help you to improve, but they also dont mean youve failed if you didnt achieve them.

  20. #20
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Got it all sorted ......

    Did a dummy run run with yesterdays disaster beans, there was no FC *but a definite SC , pulled them *cooled them and they look OK .

    Later I did 250g of Ethiopian Gambella.... that went to plan as well ,and they look and smell good. Though I fear I may have made a mistake .... I was following another Snobbers roasting guide( a bit too closely )......

    Would *I be right in saying that once you have FC , thats the temp you should hold , before moving on to SC.

    My Gambella beans FC was 203 ..... but I blindly followed the guide and went to 210 *and held it there , before moving on to SC .

    Would my roast benefitted from staying at that FC temp of 203 , rather going up to 210 and holding there

    I was using pcf1978 graph guide

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1228795908

    When it all runs smoothly , it was good fun.

    GB


  21. #21
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    I aim for about 6 minutes between FC and SC trying for a gradual temperature increase.

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    Re: Virgin roaster

    As a Virgin roaster can ask just a few more questions ...please

    the graph I used as a guide seems very flat after FC ..... Is that desired
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1228795908

    Or as TG suggests a gradual rise .... so if I get a FC at 205 , and Im looking at a SC of about 220...... Should I immediately after FC start increasing temp by 3*/min , or maintain FC temp for a minute then start increasing.???

    Is it advisable to warm up BM bucket and HG to a temp before starting, or maybe wait till beans hit a certain temp before starting the clock...?

    Could a fellow roasting snob define " rolling FC " & "tipping" for me.

    Initially I setup with the flared end on the HG ( 1600W Ryobi) ... Droshi suggests taking the flared nozzle off, though I see others using the fared section , any thoughts on the subject ??? ( my thinking was more even heat distribution ??).

    Many Thanks



  23. #23
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    Re: Virgin roaster

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Quote Originally Posted by 7F7863647F7873170 link=1244813575/21#21 date=1245122627
    As a Virgin roaster can ask just a few more questions ...please

    the graph I used as a guide seems very flat after FC ..... Is that desired
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1228795908

    Or as TG suggests a gradual rise .... so if I get a FC at 205 , and Im looking at a SC of about 220...... Should I immediately after FC start increasing temp by 3*/min , or maintain FC temp for a minute then start increasing.???
    I try to climb as slow as possible from 1st crack to 2nd crack on my corretto. 3 degrees a min is good usually, even a touch slower for me if I can manage it. As long as you dont go backwards...stalling the roast.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F7863647F7873170 link=1244813575/21#21 date=1245122627
    Is it advisable to warm up BM bucket and HGto a temp before starting, or maybe wait till beans hit a certain temp before starting the clock...?
    I dont. I do vary my profile a bit between summer and winter to account for the different ambient temp though.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F7863647F7873170 link=1244813575/21#21 date=1245122627
    Could a fellow roasting snob define " rolling FC " & "tipping" for me.
    Dont put too much faith in my definitions, but rolling first crack is when all the beans are really getting a move on with the crack (as opposed to 1st signs of 1st crack - the first couple of cracks) - see very technical definition - I warned you.

    Tipping is burning the tips of the bean. If you have some significant tipping you will see the ends of the bean are darker and burnt. They will also often be very cracked at the ends of the bean. A picture can help so hopefully someone will put one up. I just finished a roast, but luckily for me - no significant tipping problems.

    Have fun!



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