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Thread: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

  1. #1
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Talking to a commercial roaster this week and he told me (because of small batch sizes) I should be hitting FC at 8 minutes.
    I am not sure how a smaller batch size relates to different roasting times but he said 10-12 mins to FC for 750gms was baking it.
    Not in my cup anyway, your thoughts ? ;)

    Chris

  2. #2
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    How good is his roasted coffee? How good is yours?

    Some of the best roasts Ive done so far have hit FC at 14 or even 15 mins. Ive done some ones that reached FC in less than 10 that ended up tasting pretty good too.

    Yes, a smaller batch size takes less time but I dont think there is a linear relationship between bean mass and roast time. I can only speak anecdotally so Ill leave it those with more expertise and experience to comment further.

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    Baking has more to do with allowing the roast profile to stall or proceed at an extremely slow pace that is almost akin to stalling. I wouldnt consider what we do with our Correttos, KKTOs, Gene Cafes and HotTops, etc as "baking".

    I think that Roaster guy is getting his wires crossed to be honest.... ::)

    Mal.

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    When was the last time he roasted 500g?

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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    Im curious, We often hear about the perils of baking coffee. What does baked coffee taste like? Its quite possible I have stalled roasts before but even if I have I dont know if I would be able to say it tastes baked as I dont know what that specific flavor is. I would imagine that the biggest risk to developing baked tasting coffee would be slow cool down times such as Genecafe rather then getting to first crack at 12 minutes rather then 10.

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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    Good question, muppet! I dont know the answer. Maybe Ill bake some beans when I get home and do a taste comparison...

    The general advice Ive heard is that the flavours tend to "flatten" out in baked beans. I guess that means muted acidity, perhaps less sweetness, and intuitively Id predict less aroma (more would "boil off" in the long roast).

    I think stalling is different to baking, though. Whereas baking is spending too long in one or more stages of the roast, stalling is more of a momentary drop in heat. Stalling can interrupt the chemical changes occurring within the beans (eg. caramelisation) giving you less than optimal results.

    Baking has never been a problem in our Corretto - though some profiles taste better than others. But stalling is! Once we got the thermocouple and datalogger we all of a sudden noticed some of the sharp changes in heat we were putting our beans through! With lots of experience, a cool head and a gentle hand on the HGs heat control were generally able to get beautifully smooth curves now. 8-)

    Cheers
    Stuart.

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    I have heard this 8 minutes to first crack, 10 minutes to finish bit before. It was given as relating to small batches being roasted in sample roasters for defect cuppings rater than production runs for consumption.


    Java "Still digging his Gothot" phile

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    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    I have heard this assertion before and it is complete bollocks....if you are interested in nice super smooth roast in the cup then up to even 13 mins FC with nice smooth climb rate and no stalling is the go....I wonder sometimes when I see commercial roaster adverts asserting 12-13 mins total roasting time whether that promotes the idea that FC in 6-7 mins is a must or otherwise its baked not roasted.

    Anyway the taste in the cup is the answer to the criticism of the usual slow ramp to 10-12 mins.

    Cheers

  9. #9
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    Quote Originally Posted by 42575E4E4259592D0 link=1255068916/7#7 date=1255149294
    Anyway the taste in the cup is the answer to the criticism of the usual slow ramp to 10-12 mins
    Thanks everyone, it was puzzling me and I may just send him a sample and he can tell me ::)

    Chris

  10. #10
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    Send him 3 samples.

    One of your roast and two of his own.

    Mark them A, B & C and wait for his appraisal.


  11. #11
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    Brilliant TG :)

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    Quote Originally Posted by 595E5F4B585E4D584B445E2A0 link=1255068916/5#5 date=1255100674
    I think stalling is different to baking, though. Whereas baking is spending too long in one or more stages of the roast, stalling is more of a momentary drop in heat. Stalling can interrupt the chemical changes occurring within the beans (eg. caramelisation) giving you less than optimal results.
    Not really Stuart....

    Baking is, as its most basic interpretation describes, i.e. exposing the bean batch to a more or less constant temperature, neither rising nor falling; much as one does when baking a cake.

    Stalling means exactly what its most basic interpretation describes, i.e. "to come to a standstill; be brought to a stop". In the context of roasting coffee, it means that the thermal gradient is stalled, no longer rising but not necessarily falling. Allowed to continue like this for too long and you start baking the beans....

    Mal.

  13. #13
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    I did this one yesterday - PNG Highland coffee - 12.8 FC and rolling shortly thereafter and pulled just when rolling FC finished at 16 mins (in fact it was JUST starting to have the odd SC snap as I started cooling, but it was only JUST and next time I will cut it a few second shorter)....tried it today (way before its best) and talk about a beautiful smooth brew....

    Cheers


  14. #14
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    Emailed another Roaster I met during my recent travels, he suggested I shortened the time between FC and SC as it may have been a little long. I have done this to 2 roasts already so will see what happens in the cup. I have been getting upto 5 minutes previously so should be interesting.

    Chris

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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    Another thing worth considering for home roasting v commercial is that many of us load with a relatively cool roaster, or a roaster with significantly less thermal mass then commercial drums.
    I have read somewhere that the sugers in coffee start caramelising somewhere between 160-180deg.

    There are arguments for and against drying cycles, but perhaps what is more imprtant is the profile that occurs after the 150deg mark. Perhaps this accounts for the longer profiles accepted by home roasters.

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    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Is my coffee roasted or baked?

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Good point Muppet.
    Today I pre-heated the BM to a higher temp than normal before putting the beans in and this shortened time to FC by a further 40 secs. Lucky BeanBay tomorrow night I must be under 60kg ;D

    Cheers

    Chris



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