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Thread: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

  1. #1
    Senior Member nikko.the.scorpio's Avatar
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    Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi,

    Well after purchasing 5kg or so of green beans several months ago I decided to bite the bullet today and try my first home roast.

    Would greatly welcome feedback on it as I know theres a LOT I can improve.

    Firstly and very quickly the hardware used worked reasonably well:

    Breadmaker: *Breville BB290
    Heat Gun: Ozito 2000w (Bunnings)
    Temperature monitor: *Cheapo digital one from Deal Extreme (actually quite accurate).
    Green Beans: 500g Brazilian Pulped Natural

    The only modding I had to make to the breadmaker was to drill the hole in the side for the thermometer and remove the lid - which had a thin metal inner layer, which I removed to make a simple and very basic hood for the top.

    1st crack was at around 8-9m, internal bean temp was ~210degrees.

    I then was a tad unsure about how long I should be waiting for the second crack (which I beleive upon further reading should be aimed to be ~5mins after first?)

    Anyway I had read.....quite possibly erroneously that after the first crack is completed to raise the temperate from 210 to about 230 for the second crack?

    So I was trying to do this and the temperature started jumping up on me and I did panic a bit when there was a bit of smoke and so think I may have removed them prematurely with the temp maxing at about 225 after 13mins.

    Cooling was a weakness that I was meaning to remedy last week and I had to get by with a large stainless steel colander and a large fan pointed on this - manually agitating the beans to cool.

    Ive taken photos but they look a LOT lighter than they are IRL. During roasting my initial thoughts were Id burnt them....then after I thought no Id not left them long enough.....which is possibly what Im leaning at now.

    I think my main mistake/s were heating the beans too quickly from 200 to 225 (I did that in about a minute!)......and then removing them from the roasting process probably about 2-3mins early.

    Also my cooling was probably twice as long as it should have been!

    Finished weight was 410g...now bagged in the lovely gold valved bags from the CS shop.

    Anyway, welcome any feedback folks might have.......I found 1st crack very easy to hear (is it all over pretty quick though? *Doesnt seem like every single bean POPS.....as I was expecting a popcorn type mass of cracking but it was far less individual popping)......also I was panicing Id not hear 2nd crack over the heatgun and plow through....

    Is 2nd crack generally clearly audible? Or should I be paying less attention to this and more to hitting 1st crack at a set time period....9mins? *And then getting to another set temperature by another set time AFTER first crack....eg 225-230 by 5mins?

    Thank you very much in advance....

    Nick

    http://picasaweb.google.com.au/lh/photo/6fTDNpwFhg41YdyP356nyvehsaSwnt3u2syG1OajsHs?feat=d irectlink

    http://picasaweb.google.com.au/lh/photo/cOzABJ0puWbvYZQHZbYjePehsaSwnt3u2syG1OajsHs?feat=d irectlink

    PS Sorry I couldnt embed the image with Google web folders!

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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Looks pretty good but try extending time until first crack to around 12 minutes.

  3. #3
    Senior Member nikko.the.scorpio's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F445B4C41151C2D0 link=1277535169/1#1 date=1277536666
    Looks pretty good but try extending time until first crack to around 12 minutes.
    Thanks for the reply!

    Ok so try and hit the first crack (around 210deg) around the 12 min mark and then the second crack (225-230) at around 5 min after that? Obviously I know thats very generalised as different beans will react differently but as a basic plan is that reasonably sound?

    Cheers again for the reply.

    :-)

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Gday "nikko".... :)

    A very good effort for a first try mate [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Just looking at the close-up photo, there is evidence of "Tipping" on some beans which is typical in a Corretto where the batch has been pushed a bit too quickly into 1st Crack. Tipping refers to the signs of burning on the edges or ends of the beans and it is also possible that the roast depth throughout individual beans may be irregular too.

    Basically, you need to apply sufficient heat and agitation so that the batch is hitting Rolling 1st Crack from between 12-14 minutes using a nice steady gradient of around 13-14C/Minute. Once you reach this point and the beans are actively cracking, you can wind the temperature gradient back to about 3-4C/Minute which should lead the batch, gradually, into the start of 2nd Crack about 6-7 minutes after that point.

    Soft beans such as the Brazilian Pulped Natural really shouldnt be taken too far into 2nd Crack, in fact, I would normally remove them just before 2nd Crack starts or after hearing the first few snaps and then immediately cool. It really comes down to individual taste preferences though and once you get a few more batches under your belt and the confidence to go with it, you can then start experimenting a bit with your roast profiles just to see how the roast affects the results in the cup. You must keep good records of all the batches you roast though, otherwise you wont be able to replicate profiles that result in coffee that you particularly like. Visa Versa too of course.... :P

    Main thing though, is to keep it a fun activity and everything else will follow. All the best... :)

    Mal.

  5. #5
    Senior Member nikko.the.scorpio's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Hi Mal,

    Thanks for taking the time to reply - very much appreciated! :-)

    Yes, alas it appears I was working on some bad information and was aspiring to hit the 1st crack by around the 9min mark - I now realise this was a tad too early.

    Ah, thats really excellent information youve provided about trying to keep a consistant 13-14C/min to first crack...my intervals were no where near that consistant. :-(

    Also knowing to wind the temperature gradient back to 2nd crackis great for again I was told incorrectly regarding this and so had been trying to hit ~230-235 within 2-3mins of first crack. :-(

    Thanks for sharing this excellent info!

    Yes, I have to say I will definitely be keeping notes of all roasts. Thanks for the reminder though.

    Even though the beans were only done 24hrs ago Ive tried them and well theyre ok, very mild and definitely underdone....but atleast quite drinkable. Alas I did a 500g batch and so itll take me a couple of weeks to get through...as super keen to correct the mistakes.

    Is roasting in 250g batches going to be too difficult to control....because of the smaller bean mass etc making it more volatile?

    The only other thing Id ask comes to mind from your comments about the inherent characteristics of the Brazilian Naturals....whats the best way to find out any roasting notes on the beans before one jumps in?

    I assume running a search here is a first idea.....everything I buy is from the CS shop (brilliant service!).

    Thanks again for your feedback and sagely advice,

    Cheers, Nick

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Hi again Nick...

    Yep, the CS Search tool will reveal heaps of information about most things. You just have to be mindful of the Search Period which defaults to only one week. You will need to extend this to at least 12 Months for most searches.

    Regarding the minimum batch size, 250g may be OK as it varies from machine to machine. My setup for example, is marginal at 300g (Breville Big Loaf). I guess if you could control agitation speed, it would be possible to go down to quite small batches but this is not really a practical thing to do. Basically, at small batch sizes, the beans are over agitated which results in irregular circuits of the bread pan thereby causing irregular uptake of thermal energy - Results in uneven roasts.

    You should be able to determine the Minimum Batch Size, using a dry run though. Just keep adding beans while the BM is running and once you observe that the agitation action has smoothed out, that should be close to the comfortable minimum batch size, which you can then weigh and record.

    Hope that helps you out a bit more Nick. All the best mate.... :)

    Mal.

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    Senior Member nikko.the.scorpio's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Wow Mal - thats a VERY good point, the over agitation ....Id never thought of that but it does make a lot of sense.

    Thank you VERY much on your replies.....genuinely appreciated.

    Much thanks, Nick :-)

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    Senior Member Pavoniboy's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    A method I find helps me with my corretto roasting is have a minute by minute plan. That is I write out a table of what temperature I want to be at on each minute mark (design it on the temperature gradients you want and when you want 1st and 2nd crack). It really helps me adjust heat temperature as I go without needing to make fast drastic changes in heat input.

    I then write in the actual temps the roast is at at each minute mark. I then leave room for notes to write in when I have tasted the bean and file it away in my roast log - and refer back often to guide my journey.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Perhaps Im missing something but to me roasting with a Corretto is simplicity its self.
    Decide its time to roast a batch, wander down to the shed, weigh out the required amount of green beans, pour em into the loaf tin, turn everything on, note start time and temp, keep an eye on progress, make a couple of minor temp adjustments if needed, about 18 mins later cool em, and shut everything down.
    Back inside enjoying a coffee 30 mins after I start the process.
    Not trying to be smart, just that I think sometimes we try to over complicate things. :)

  10. #10
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by 78444D5540210 link=1277535169/8#8 date=1277699717
    Not trying to be smart, just that I think sometimes we try to over complicate things. *
    Agreed but...my method is a cross between Pavoniboys and yours.

    I dont aim for a minute by minute temp but do record min by min and compare to the last roast I was happy with.
    The roast times tend to be close enough if you using the same bean again.

    Having done 100s of roasts by now, my method is closer to yours Jon because subconsciously I know when Im on track.


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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E425F444E4F584D454E2A0 link=1277535169/9#9 date=1277703376
    Having done 100s of roasts by now, my method is closer to yours Jon because subconsciously I know when Im on track.
    Yep, me too.... ;)

    I guess it just comes with doing this for many, many years..... ::)

    Mal.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by 4579647F757463767E75110 link=1277535169/9#9 date=1277703376
    Having done 100s of roasts by now, my method is closer to yours Jon because subconsciously I know when Im on track.
    I certainly cant claim to have done 100s of roasts (only started 6 months ago) maybe theres a bear hiding out there waiting to grab me. *:o
    Seriously though, I spent a couple of years observing processes and writing work instructions for a geological sample prep facility, Im a stickler for detail (assume the operator knows nothing) surprisingly the process involved reducing drill core samples from big lumps of rock through a series of operations down to a final size of < 75 microns (talcum powder) The machinery used surprisingly enough was along the lines of super sized coffee grinders (jaw crushers, ring mills and the like) *perhaps this experience has been useful.
    Not saying I dont encounter problems but when I do can usually get it sorted after a little thought. *;)

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    Senior Member nikko.the.scorpio's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Excellent replies guys......I actually kept a minute by minute guide so having a template of where I roughly want to be at makes a lot of sense......particularly when youre a newbie, like myself.

    One of the biggest challenges I had was not knowing the beans go through a change from being endothermic to being exothermic just around their 1st crack (and also 2nd crack).........hence I was working way too hard to put heat in and then suddenly after hitting around 210 it began rocketing up to 230 or so......!!!!

    This really made me panic and I didnt know about the endo-to-ex change and so I assume Id put too much heat in (which I still kind of had)....hence I removed the heat gun totally.....but the beans temps kept going up themselves!!!!!!!!! * I was like WTF is going on here....

    Anyway I was blowing on them and doing everything I could to try and get the temps down........haha this was the panic period.....so them the temps dropped right down to about 200 and I tried to get them up a bit again but thought maybe in the panicing Id missed the 2nd crack so thought Id juust yank them and be safe....haha I was still flustered by the massive temp spike!

    But wow I tell you its a really big change and if youre not expecting it one can get quite a shock from it.

    I was also blown away by the sheer amount of chaff given off, I was expecting a bit but the amount still shocked me.

    Super keen to do it again now. *:-)





    PS Sorry added pix from 1st post, which had broken links, Picasas links didnt work well here for some reason. :-)

  14. #14
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Feedback please: 1st corretto roast attempt

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Quote Originally Posted by 7A7D7F7F7B3A607C713A67777B66647D7B140 link=1277535169/12#12 date=1277712819
    Excellent replies guys......I actually kept a minute by minute guide so having a template of where I roughly want to be at makes a lot of sense......particularly when youre a newbie, like myself.

    One of the biggest challenges I had was not knowing the beans go through a change from being endothermic to being exothermic just around their 1st crack (and also 2nd crack).........hence I was working way too hard to put heat in and then suddenly after hitting around 210 it began rocketing up to 230 or so......!!!!

    This really made me panic and I didnt know about the endo-to-ex change and so I assume Id put too much heat in (which I still kind of had)....hence I removed the heat gun totally.....but the beans temps kept going up themselves!!!!!!!!! * I was like WTF is going on here....

    Anyway I was blowing on them and doing everything I could to try and get the temps down........haha this was the panic period.....so them the temps dropped right down to about 200 and I tried to get them up a bit again but thought maybe in the panicing Id missed the 2nd crack so thought Id juust yank them and be safe....haha I was still flustered by the massive temp spike!

    But wow I tell you its a really big change and if youre not expecting it one can get quite a shock from it.

    I was also blown away by the sheer amount of chaff given off, I was expecting a bit but the amount still shocked me.

    Super keen to do it again now. *:-)
    Please dont think I was belittling your 1st roasting attempt Nikko, its only a bit over 6 months since I attempted my first in an old aluminium bowl using a wooden spoon and heat gun http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1134076855/230#230 its certainly a steep learning curve, sounds like your on the right track. ;)



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