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Thread: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

  1. #1
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    Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi All,

    I have been given 2kg of these East Timor, Maubisse - organic beans, "Heavenly body and sweet as honey. Roast dark for a thick and syrupy espresso" were the suppliers notes. They are not from a sponsor, so I am not sure of quality. I have tried 2 roasts so far, both were really fast (10 min in the gene cafe) using Greg Wormalds original method, 1st time with the temp at 232C the next at 228, with almost no time difference, the beans got very smokey & oily well into rolling 2nd crack, with the colour at CS9 and after regular tasting over 18 days they have not improved from flat- musty- yuk, :( have tried espresso, macchiato, latte and plunger.

    The greens look very yellow, on the right in the photo, the ones on the left (for comparison) are Peru Ceja de Selva.

    Does anyone have any hints/ideas on how to slow down the roast on such a speedy bean? also as all my greens have been from beanbay or sponsors, are these normal? :-/


  2. #2
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    Re: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    the flavours youve got and the colour of the beans remind me of the monsooned malabar indian I bought from beanbay a few months back

    wondering if its possible that these are monsooned or from a similar process by the looks of them

    do you notice a lot of crema on the shots even though they are tasting somewhat flat, could be useful in blending for crema if thats the case

  3. #3
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    Re: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    Yes, good crema, I did try 10% in a blend the other day, but it overpowered 70% Peru & 20% China Yunnan. I will give it a go as a Monsooned Malabar, @ 225C and see what happens, cant get much worse ;D

  4. #4
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    Re: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    I personally dont like the suppliers description or recommendation on how to roast....and maybe thats just me! Its a non description, and a recommendation to burn the coffee, which is ok if you want it like that. Roasting coffee "dark" generally burns away the "sweetness" referred to in the description and introduces bitterness, so a contradiction (for me).

    I would pull it back considerably, but cant give you any advice on how to do that with your roaster.* You could set a lower temp for end of roast. Can you also slow down the rate of heat to draw out the roast a little? Try and stop the roast at only just the start of second crack.

    Cup, and see how that changes things.

    The yellow look could just be what it is for those beans with that method of processing,* or it could be that they are not current crop and have lost moisture content and become that colour...I dont know. In any case it isnt relevant to the probnlem at hand, which is to work out how best to deal with the beans that you have......!

    If you can work it out, you could have a nice coffee on your hands!

    Hope that helps,
    Attilio
    very first CS Site Sponsor

  5. #5
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    Re: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    Thanks Attilio, a nice coffee is what Im after. The beans were bought by a friend whose lady love swears by her pre-ground & packaged - use by the middle of next year East Timor, that comes from who knows where.

    We are trying to convince her that fresh is best, so I want to get this one right to impress her enough for her to be willing to at least buy fresh ground (a grinder will be a long way down the track) :P

    I have bought a bag of East Timor Liquica from Beanbay, so will fall back to that if I cant win with this other one, and put it down to "bad beans" ;D

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    Re: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    Quote Originally Posted by 013522342F18042821212222470 link=1326070012/3#3 date=1326081511
    or it could be that they are not current crop and have lost moisture content and become that colour...
    Old beans my guess.
    In the picture,
    Far left: Monsoon process
    Left: Old Laos
    Right: 2011 crop of East Timor Maubese Organic
    Far right: Sulawesi triple pick from beanbay

    Cheers


  7. #7
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    Quote Originally Posted by 3B373E3E3D3D07352D35580 link=1326070012/4#4 date=1326083032
    I have bought a bag of East Timor Liquica from Beanbay
    I was going to suggest trying the Liquica against the one bought somewhere else but you are already heading that direction. Money back if the BeanBay one isnt a far better coffee!
    8-)

    I reject 100s of coffees a year which leaves a good supply to others that dont care as much. I think thats my duty.
    ;D

    More seriously... the reason we didnt have a Timor coffee in the last few years is that none of them made the grade until we found the Liquica.

    I look forward to hearing the results of your side by side testing.

    (where did that *smug* smiley go)

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    Re: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    Seems to me that coffee mum was asking for the advice of the collective on roasting a particular coffee. If the coffee is aged, so be it, but that is not in itself a reason to give up on the whole attempt.

    Developing techniques to handle all different types of beans on the gene cafe (or on any roaster) is a must for users if they are going to get any benefit out of using the equipment and roasting their own, and if I may say so to redirect the thread into "other beans are better" is hardly going to get them there....

    As already noted I dont have any experience with this type of roaster and can only give general advice . Adding to my previous post and going on the information you provided, suggest the following as a second attempt at these beans:

    a) charge the drum at a lower starting temp .....try 200 degrees (its arbitrary......try whatever you like and see what happens, even lower);
    b) reduce heat at first crack (if you can) to ensure the roast doesnt "race" to the end,*
    c) finish the roast at the cusp of second crack or earlier instead of allowing it continue through.

    OR....if there is no means of lowering / varying the roasting temperature on the gene cafe you could try a larger batch weight to slow down the roast, but I wouldnt do this until you have first tried the a, b, and c thing above, and noted the result. ie dont do too many things at once or you wont know what effect any of the different variables had on the end result!

    Try another variation on the above each time you roast another batch, depending on what you found as a result of the previous. See what works best for you. If they are all awful, then you can blame the beans if you wish, but you cant do that until you have given your all to try and work out what is best for the beans at hand. And by going through the exercise, you will have learned something and increased your knowledge base to put to good use in future as the need arises.

    People who have gene cafe roasters .....can you please suggest to CM how this best be done?

    Rgdz,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor

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    Re: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    Hi Bassway, thanks for the photo, so far all the beans Ive had look like the 2 on the right, my problem beans are definitely in the monsooned - old range.

    Andy, your money is safe, roasted both yesterday and tasted all three roasts this morning, the Liquica wins hands down, even at CS8, (will adjust to get CS9 next time)

    Attilio, i went for an overall reduction in temp, @225C, warmed then cooled to 60C, 1st crack at 11min, first snaps of 2nd at 15min, cooled in 1min. CS8. Tastes better than the 10min roast, but still has whatever it is Im not liking, it may mellow over the next couple of weeks as the first batch did. Next roast I will reduce temp by 5deg at 1st crack. I just know that Ill get it right on the last batch :P

    I have emailed the supplier and asked for the age of the beans, and whether they have been monsooned, will be interesting to see what they respond with.

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    Re: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    Just be aware, that not all coffees look the same and they are what they are at any particular time especially when you are dealing with SOs (a good reason for blending to suit whatever any individual roast master wants to achieve).

    Whatever reply you get from the supplier, note that there is nothing wrong with him supplying or anyone using beans that may or may not be "aged", or because they simply dont conform to a particular colour or dont roast out in a particular way.

    What you are experiencing, could be just the way it is for that crop coffee in that year. OR, it could be a result of the way it has been processed, or stored, or whatever. If after trying various roasting techniques you are not satisfied, so be it but remember one mans poison can be another mans elixir!

    It doesnt change the idea right now, that just like a barista, you have to deal with what you have been given in the best possible way. The fact you may not have bought those beans in the first place had you been given the choice, doesnt come into it. The beans may be a perfectly good blender....again, if roasted the right way, so one should not jump to conclusions that the coffee is "no good" just because it did not come through the CS system or doesnt conform to a particular colour or doesnt roast out the same way as some other coffees...

    Professional coffee roasters like Andy, myself and others have the luxury of being able to reject samples if we dont like them for any particular reason. It doesnt necessarily mean there is something wrong with them, it just means we as individuals choose not to use them in our businesses.... there are some that do!

    So...keep smiling and keep trying! You are honing your roasting skills* ;)

    Rgdz,
    A.

  11. #11
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    Re: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    Attilio,

    All good advice, but I am impatient cook, and I want to get the recipe right ;D
    I suppose Im like an inexperienced teenager trying to trouble shoot his favourite savoury mince over the phone, If I could taste it I may say "it needs salt" but he hasnt had enough experience to know that yet, he and I with this coffee just know that its not quite right, yet :-/
    I understand that if roasted right, it may*be great, the fun (frustration) is getting it right :) And its all knowledge for next time.

  12. #12
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting advice for these "yellow" beans

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    It sounds like you are on the right track by slowing everything down.

    While Ive changed my standard to be a bit quicker, Im aiming for a CS10 (my favourite for most beans) and just commencing 2nd crack, in about 12 minutes.

    If the beans are monsooned then they may age up beautifully after 10 days. Some other beans I also enjoy 10 days plus are the Australian ones.

    Good luck.

    Greg



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