Thread: Whats in my coffee roaster this week

Today's roast session:--
300g Ethiopian Guji Shakiso Oromia natural for filter, the aroma coming from the greens was so fruity and aromatic, the last batch I roasted were amazing they just kept getting better over a two week period.
Panama Rati Hartmann Estate Black Honey, 1200g batch for espresso, taken to second crack prior to start of second crack, look amazing in the cooler, looking forward to sampling in a few days!!!

500gms of Peru Ceja de Selva tonight, yielding around 420gms roasted.

First roast with my new HeatSnob attached to the Corretto. Much more fun than my Behmor, and some interesting lessons in how to roast with the heat gun.

Regardless, happy with the roast as I pulled it just at the start of first crack. Looks and smells amazing, can't wait to try at various intervals.

first roast.jpg
IMG_2592.jpg

Time to finish off the last of my precious stash of Yemen Ismaili...
Combining with the wonderful Indonesia Aceh Donau Laut Tawar to give it that very yummy Yemen Moka profile on the palate. Worked wonderfully with the Ethiopia Biftu Gesha recently.

Profile is a relatively gentle 'standard' profile with the usual slow-down during the Maillard phase and a gentle gradient after 1st-Crack, then pulled just before the onset of 2nd-Crack. Very, very delicious aromas coming off the cooler with this batch...

Batch details copied below and post-roast photos attached as per usual.

Mal.

Details...
Yemen Ismaili... 500g
Indonesia Aceh DLT... 250g
Roasted Weight... 634g
Moisture Loss... 15.47%

Nice even looking roast Mal.

Thanks mate...

Down to the gentle profile I use these days.
To think, when I first started out roasting in a Corretto, the average batch time reaching 2nd-Crack was more like 12 minutes.
Results in the cup were much more inconsistent and when I got as far as examining the internal structure of a few roasted beans, found that quite a few were barely roasted at all in the middle.

Learning, learning...

Mal.

Hope the Yemen pops up in beanbay at some stage

A batch of the latest Biftu Sundried. 800g batch, dropped at 217.5° which was a fraction earlier than I expected for this bean and 6° before my usual drop zone, but I was starting to hear the first outlying snaps of second crack.
In hindsight I could have gone a little further – in the cup it is very fruity, rich and zingy, but I think next time I would sacrifice a tiny bit more of the acidity for some additional body and smoothness. But the early snaps were most likely caused by how gronky and uneven the beans are - bit of a wild bunch! But well worth it in the cup - these are lovely beans.
I even ran these through the aeropress straight out of the roaster, and it was a lovely smooth cup at this roast depth, with no hint of toasty bitterness. So good all rounder profile I guess…

20180409-Biftu-Sundried-25amb-800g.jpg

This is my second attempt with the PNG Unen Choit that I’ve got. The first lot looked like it might’ve been ok, but the results were very underwhelming. I’m not 100% sure what went wrong, but it was very gassy for a good couple of weeks so maybe it was under developed? Or under developed and baked maybe as the roast time was longer than expected.
Today seemed to go better. Even though it was probably 15deg colder in my garage I hit first crack over a minute early, but still got some good development time in so I’m hoping for a better outcome. Moisture loss was exactly the same so that’s interesting. We’ll see.

Yep...

Unfortunately, the vagaries of ambient temperature variation introduces several unknowns into the outcome of the end results, in the cup.
Effects all roasting systems that draw air in from the outside and with my Corretto, I have to work this variation into the profile I use in order to keep things more or less the same.

Makes for an interesting experience though, if not always an optimum one...

Mal.

Originally Posted by Dimal

To think, when I first started out roasting in a Corretto, the average batch time reaching 2nd-Crack was more like 12 minutes.
Results in the cup were much more inconsistent and when I got as far as examining the internal structure of a few roasted beans, found that quite a few were barely roasted at all in the middle.

I find this interesting, do you think getting more out of a longer roast something that is unique to your setup, or can be applied to roasting in general? I roast using a huky, most of my roasts are around the 12-13 minute mark (400 or 500g batches). I've tried a couple of longer roasts (~16 minute, nowhere near 20 though) and I've found them to not be much different - but all I did was slow down the whole roast, using lower heat throughout, generally a fast start/slow finish. I'm not sure if perhaps there's more airflow in my setup which might explain a difference. I will have to try cutting the beans to see how they are roasted, but I find the 12-13 minute ones work well - but maybe I'm missing something!

I generally aim for a gradual decline of RoR throughout, I see you ramp up the RoR again at around 160° - is this because you slow it down quite a bit for the maillard phase and want to hit 1st crack with some oomph, or something else? Bit hard to tell what the RoR actually is from your graphs so I am interested.

Originally Posted by Agrajag

I see you ramp up the RoR again at around 160° - is this because you slow it down quite a bit for the maillard phase and want to hit 1st crack with some oomph, or something else? Bit hard to tell what the RoR actually is from your graphs so I am interested.

I really doubt that much of what I do with my particular setup would be transferable to your Huky 'Aj'...
It is definitely worthwhile though, to section a random selection of beans from different roast batches in order to determine if they're roasted properly. I just use a piece of sandpaper on a small sheet of scrap glass for this.

And yes, I like to hit 1st-Crack with plenty of oomph, as you say, in an effort to ensure that all the beans hit 1st-Crack simultaneously, vigorously and complete within 90-120 seconds, depending on the beans used, where I intend to stop the roast in the post 1st-Crack gradient and the actual gradient itself. Have found that doing it this way ensures really enjoyable and consistent results in the cup

I can attach a chart data file for you if you want, to compare with your own. Let me know...

Mal.

Originally Posted by Agrajag

I find this interesting, do you think getting more out of a longer roast something that is unique to your setup, or can be applied to roasting in general? I roast using a huky, most of my roasts are around the 12-13 minute mark (400 or 500g batches). I've tried a couple of longer roasts (~16 minute, nowhere near 20 though) and I've found them to not be much different - but all I did was slow down the whole roast, using lower heat throughout, generally a fast start/slow finish. I'm not sure if perhaps there's more airflow in my setup which might explain a difference. I will have to try cutting the beans to see how they are roasted, but I find the 12-13 minute ones work well - but maybe I'm missing something!

I generally aim for a gradual decline of RoR throughout, I see you ramp up the RoR again at around 160° - is this because you slow it down quite a bit for the maillard phase and want to hit 1st crack with some oomph, or something else? Bit hard to tell what the RoR actually is from your graphs so I am interested.

I would think that if you go much longer than 15min in a Huky you’ll end up with a baked roast. Maybe Monsoon Malabar or Kona would need a longer roast, but for most other beans it’d be too long and slow. Do you have the solid or perforated drum?

Originally Posted by Dimal

Yep...

Unfortunately, the vagaries of ambient temperature variation introduces several unknowns into the outcome of the end results, in the cup.
Effects all roasting systems that draw air in from the outside and with my Corretto, I have to work this variation into the profile I use in order to keep things more or less the same.

Makes for an interesting experience though, if not always an optimum one...

Mal.

When I built my Corretto I made a lid from fibre board that almost sealed the top of the pan, drilled a hole for the heat gun nozzle then gradually trimmed the exhaust opening until it was producing the result I was after,about 1/3 of the top of the pan is exposed as an exhaust.

This pic gives an idea of how it finished up, works well for me.
DSC_0276_1000x669.jpg

Originally Posted by Yelta

When I built my Corretto I made a lid from fibre board that almost sealed the top of the pan, drilled a hole for the heat gun nozzle then gradually trimmed the exhaust opening until it was producing the result I was after about 1/3 of the top of the pan is exposed as an exhaust.

I agree - there are certainly lots of things like lids/insulation you can do to improve the consistency of the roast. I found the biggest thing for me, like Mal mentioned, was dealing with drawing air from outside the system. My shed can range from -5° to 40° - that's going to have an impact on the efficiency of the heatgun.

Also keeping greens at a stable temp (in my office - not the shed) also helped. If greens are 'pre-heated' or 'pre-chilled' on a hot or cold day, that has a big impact on the final result. I've found that in both summer and winter I need to slow the roast profile down a little to counter this… it's why I envy Andy a little in his 24/7/365 climate controlled roastery!

This mornings roast.
500 grams India Elephant Hills Monsoon
250 grams Uganda Kisoro AA

Lots of talk lately about the merits of lighter roasts so stopped the roast about 3 degrees earlier than usual, well short of SC.

As is my custom tried one hot off the press, a bit under developed for my taste, drinkable but at this stage nothing out of the ordinary, perhaps it will improve over the next week.

Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee

I agree - there are certainly lots of things like lids/insulation you can do to improve the consistency of the roast. I found the biggest thing for me, like Mal mentioned, was dealing with drawing air from outside the system. My shed can range from -5° to 40° - that's going to have an impact on the efficiency of the heatgun.

I experience similar conditions, ambient temp certainly has a big affect on heat gun temps, bit of a juggling act at times.

The joys of shed roasting.

Brave, very brave Yelta!

The lighter roasts I've found really interesting. There are elements like the brightness & acidity that remain (and can be overpowering initially - like my current Biftu), but as they age they do also get deeper, richer – and dare I say it – darker flavours, especially through milk, while maintaining the nice acidity.

I find with my slightly darker roasts (just before/on second crack) that they are more balanced flavourwise straight out of the roaster, but as they age past 7 days they tend to soften into the cocoa end of things and loose that bounce.

Hence, at risk of putting the cat among the pigeons – how long should you rest? Depends how you roast!

Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee

Brave, very brave Yelta!

Hence, at risk of putting the cat among the pigeons – how long should you rest? Depends how you roast!

Not sure about brave, just felt it was time to prove to myself that I'm still capable of moving out of my comfort zone.

"how long should you rest?" unsure, however because of my advancing years, and given it was quite a departure from my normal profiles (big shock to the system) I suspect at least until the next roasting session, or, were you referring to the coffee?

Originally Posted by LeroyC

I would think that if you go much longer than 15min in a Huky you’ll end up with a baked roast. Maybe Monsoon Malabar or Kona would need a longer roast, but for most other beans it’d be too long and slow. Do you have the solid or perforated drum?

Yeah that's what I had thought after reading up on roasting with the huky when I initially got it, I've been roasting with it for a couple of years now and it had just never occurred to me to try stretching out a roast longer. I'm very happy with the results I get from it, just always wondering if there's something else to try. I have a solid drum.

This is a standard looking roast:



And the same beans (yirgacheffe + brazil yellow bourbon especial) with a longer roast:



I think LeroyC might be right, although still nice, I think the shorter roast gets more complex flavours and longer one is perhaps slightly baked - but not enough to stop me drinking it!

Thanks for the information/ideas. I think I might try a slow down for maillard phase and speed up for first crack on my next roast, see if that makes a difference. I think the trick with that will be being able to slow it back down after first crack though. Will see how I go.

Originally Posted by Agrajag

Yeah that's what I had thought after reading up on roasting with the huky when I initially got it, I've been roasting with it for a couple of years now and it had just never occurred to me to try stretching out a roast longer. I'm very happy with the results I get from it, just always wondering if there's something else to try … I think I might try a slow down for maillard phase and speed up for first crack on my next roast, see if that makes a difference. I think the trick with that will be being able to slow it back down after first crack though. Will see how I go.

Let the taste be your guide, grasshopper
Roasting is a constant process of learning and adjusting. Too sour or bright? Stretch it out a little. Too flat, go faster or lighter.
Fortunately, once you're basically in a good roasting zone, you get very few bin roasts – some are just more excellent than others!

Yep...

No-one knows your roaster better than you 'Aj', especially after a couple of years of gathering data and results in the cup.
Always worth experimenting though, probably with smaller batches at first, just to make sure that you are getting the most any bean has to offer. I've been doing this for the better part of 15+ years and still experiment with all sorts of things.

The Huky looks to be a great little roaster with excellent support, so you're definitely in a good place.

Mal.

Originally Posted by Yelta

Lots of talk lately about the merits of lighter roasts so stopped the roast about 3 degrees earlier than usual, well short of SC.

In honour of Yelta's sacrifice, I've gone darker for my latest roast, taking this to around 224°, which is around 1-2°, or just into second crack (well, to be fair, I found the Hondurus a little mild taken lighter first time around, so thought I'd play around in this roast too.

So, Hondura La Central, a midpoint kind of profile for me, taken just into second crack. As a doppio this morning, good rich body, mild acidity, great crema and lovely lightly caramelised toffee flavours. With the lighter roasts I've been doing the last few months I'd forgotten the joy of these kids of flavours. They work really well with this bean – I might try a blend with the lighter fruity Biftu and see waht happens

20180412-HondurasLaCentral25amb800g.jpg

Plus a blend…
20180412-cJblend25amb800g.jpg

Originally Posted by Yelta

This mornings roast.
500 grams India Elephant Hills Monsoon
250 grams Uganda Kisoro AA

Lots of talk lately about the merits of lighter roasts so stopped the roast about 3 degrees earlier than usual, well short of SC.

Here's an observation, I've found this lighter roast is giving me a distinct caffeine buzz, something I never experience with my darker roasts, coincidence? unsure.

Googled the question, and it seems that caffeine is indeed diminished by heat, but stopping a roast 3° or 4°C lower than normal seems pretty insignificant.

Orrrrrr, is this one of the reasons lighter roasts are so popular, are they indeed higher in caffeine, seems a pretty long bow to draw, any thoughts?

Originally Posted by Yelta

Here's an observation, I've found this lighter roast is giving me a distinct caffeine buzz, something I never experience with my darker roasts, coincidence? unsure.

Googled the question, and it seems that caffeine is indeed diminished by heat, but stopping a roast 3° or 4°C lower than normal seems pretty insignificant.

Orrrrrr, is this one of the reasons lighter roasts are so popular, are they indeed higher in caffeine, seems a pretty long bow to draw, any thoughts?

Hmmm interesting! I've heard that too, that darker roasts have less caffeine, but I honestly disregarded it and thought the difference was pretty miniscule and insubstantial.

But interested in this feedback you've given us! I honestly don't remember what a caffeine buzz feels like! (Apart from at MICE.... *holds head rocking back and forth...*)

Originally Posted by simonsk8r

thought the difference was pretty miniscule and insubstantial.

Would have been my feeling as well, wondered what others think, particularly with the very light roasts, i.e. just past first crack.

Originally Posted by Dimal

especially after a couple of years of gathering data and results in the cup.
Always worth experimenting though, probably with smaller batches at first, just to make sure that you are getting the most any bean has to offer. I've been doing this for the better part of 15+ years and still experiment with all sorts of things.

Hah yeah - I've been mostly roasting the same beans for this past year or so, mainly because I wanted to reduce the number of variables (also I found them delicious) - and only now am I very confident in controlling the roasts and knowing what does what that I'm happy to start experimenting again. When I first starting roasting I was doing all sorts of beans and trying different things, too many variables so it was impossible to really tell what did what. Glad to hear it doesn't stop even after 15+ years

Originally Posted by Yelta

Here's an observation, I've found this lighter roast is giving me a distinct caffeine buzz, something I never experience with my darker roasts, coincidence? unsure.

Interesting. I wouldn't think a couple of degrees would make a great difference to the amount – but maybe the more acidic, lighter brew transfer caffeine more efficiently? Or is less bound up in the oils?
Like - why does Aspro Clear seem to work better than Asprin? The bubbles!

Originally Posted by Yelta

This mornings roast.
500 grams India Elephant Hills Monsoon
250 grams Uganda Kisoro AA

Lots of talk lately about the merits of lighter roasts so stopped the roast about 3 degrees earlier than usual, well short of SC.

As is my custom tried one hot off the press, a bit under developed for my taste, drinkable but at this stage nothing out of the ordinary, perhaps it will improve over the next week.

This has certainly smoothed out a little over the past few days, no chocolaty flavours I enjoy, quite drinkable with good crema, but, nothing remarkable, will be taking my next batch to SC.

Originally Posted by Agrajag

I might try a slow down for maillard phase and speed up for first crack on my next roast

So I gave this a go with some decaf that I've had sitting around for ages. I never had too much luck with this, tried it a bunch of times on my old behmor and once or twice with the huky and often got results that were quite sour. I haven't roasted it for a while because I just haven't felt the need to drink it but thought it would be a good test because a) I didn't mind too much if it went wrong b) if I get a nice result it would be a good one to offer those guests who don't like to have caffeine in the afternoon/evening.

Anyway the roast went about as well as I'd hoped, was able to slow it down and speed it up, dropped just a few seconds into second crack

decaf.png

will be interesting too see how it compares to my old decaf roasts

Two batches, a Sulawesi Blue and a Harrar Longberry, to combine into a Mocha Java blend.

Both fairly fast roasts overall (Harrar faster), with the Indo dropped a hint before second crack at 222.5° and the Ethiopian a bit earlier at 220.5°…
Indo was nice this morning as a doppio, some good acidity remaining but some nice bite from the slightly darker roast. Not a lot of the fruit you get with a lighter roast of these puppies though…

20180418-SulawesiBlue800g25amb800g.jpg 20180418-HarrarLongberry800g25amb.jpg

Originally Posted by Agrajag

will be interesting too see how it compares to my old decaf roasts

Unfortunately not the result I was hoping for. Still a hint of sourness. Only 3 days old but from past roasts I remember the sourness doesn't go away. I've just done some more reading on roasting decaf and from the sounds of things I just need to slow the whole thing down. Time from FC to drop is reasonable (3:15ish) but I think if I aim for a lower charge temp/turning point and even slower maillard phase I might have more luck.

Originally Posted by Agrajag

Unfortunately not the result I was hoping for. Still a hint of sourness. Only 3 days old but from past roasts I remember the sourness doesn't go away. I've just done some more reading on roasting decaf and from the sounds of things I just need to slow the whole thing down. Time from FC to drop is reasonable (3:15ish) but I think if I aim for a lower charge temp/turning point and even slower maillard phase I might have more luck.

I've always found that an average-to-gentle roast with a lower drop (I drop decaf at 219.5° instead of my usual 223.5°) seems to work best with Andy's decaf. It's always great – but I do agree that it does seem to hold a higher level of acidity than most normal beans. But it is certainly never lacking in flavour!

Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee

I've always found that an average-to-gentle roast with a lower drop (I drop decaf at 219.5° instead of my usual 223.5°) seems to work best with Andy's decaf. It's always great – but I do agree that it does seem to hold a higher level of acidity than most normal beans. But it is certainly never lacking in flavour!

My usual drop for most beans is around 223°C, I took this one into 2nd crack with the theory that maybe I'd underdone it previously and also wanted to get a benchmark for where 2nd crack was with these. That theory was probably wrong, I'll try a slightly lower drop like you've suggested combined with a gentler overall roast. It's a definite sourness+acidity rather than just acidity (yes this is Andy's decaf). Thanks for the tips!