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Thread: Whats in my coffee roaster this week

  1. #2101
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Wow! That's a lot of coffee 'gm'...

    Mal.
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  2. #2102
    Senior Member solace's Avatar
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    Busy Sunday on the KKTO:

    450g Decaf Wow
    450g Of a Columbian given to me by another roaster (sourced from melb Coffee Merchants)
    4 x 450g batches of the 2018 Home Roast Comp bean
    +1 trip to for a new turbo oven (fan circuit fried my old oven)
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  3. #2103
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    Looks like a day for BIG roasts...

    Mal.
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  4. #2104
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    My turn for a big(ish) roast today

    Did 4x350g batches (1.4kg all up) all for espresso. First two were Colombian Supremo Popayan (washed) again, the next two I gave the Brazil Sitio Baixadao Naturals a go!

    All of them for the first time ever I attempt 100% manual roasts on the Behmor, no auto profiles!

    Colombian:
    1. 350g400P5manual. P3 C D at Rolling FC. Stopped at 224°. 16.29% loss, CS8-9.

    2. 350g400P5manual. Tried to extend maillard phase (which I've been reading about, and know only little about, but just thought I'd give it a crack!)
    Reached 150° then hit P3 for 50% heat, but it stalled and backtracked a faaaair bit, had to switch to P4 75% until 170°, in which I went back to P5 100%. I meant to originally extend it to 180° before full heat, but it was too slow a crawl.... P3 C D at Rolling FC. Stopped at 224°. 16% loss, CS7-8.

    Brazil:
    1. 350g400P5manual. P3 C D at Rolling FC. (Although FC blended too much into SC...) Stopped at SC 235°ish 16.57% loss, CS10.

    2. 350g400P5manual. 25%P2 (as there was no proper gap in the transition from FC to SC in the last roast..) C D at Rolling FC. Stop 230°. 15.57%, CS8.


    All in all very happy how this lot turned out! I wanted to try and replicate the good Colombian roast from last time, and also play around with this "Seattle Dip" with the maillard reaction phase hehe, but just as an experiment. Am still learning with the software and temps so it may be a bit premature to play with that.

    And as for the non-gap in the first Brazil roast, next time I may instead of waiting until Rolling FC to drop the heat, I may just drop to 50% at the start of FC. Not sure...
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  5. #2105
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=simonsk8r;639846]My turn for a big(ish) roast today



    Brazil:
    1. 350g400P5manual. P3 C D at Rolling FC. (Although FC blended too much into SC...) Stopped at SC 235°ish 16.57% loss, CS10.

    2. 350g400P5manual. 25%P2 (as there was no proper gap in the transition from FC to SC in the last roast..) C D at Rolling FC. Stop 230°. 15.57%, CS8.




    And as for the non-gap in the first Brazil roast, next time I may instead of waiting until Rolling FC to drop the heat, I may just drop to 50% at the start of FC. Not sure...[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-

    The Brazil's need a gentler heat compared to centrals as they have less density, I always use a lower charge temp for Brazil roasts and watch rate of rise near first crack so that they don't run away on me!

  6. #2106
    Senior Member solace's Avatar
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    They are some nice looking roasts simonsk8r!

  7. #2107
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenman View Post
    The Brazil's need a gentler heat compared to centrals as they have less density, I always use a lower charge temp for Brazil roasts and watch rate of rise near first crack so that they don't run away on me!
    Ahhh of course, that'd explain it! I was initially considering starting with lower heat and slower overall rampup (maybe 75%?) but as it was my first time doing roasts fully manually, I wanted to just simplify and stick with 100% and see how that tracked. Now that I know that's probably why it rolled right through that may be an idea!

    Thanks heaps @greenman appreciate it

  8. #2108
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solace View Post
    They are some nice looking roasts simonsk8r!
    Cheers! Yeah happy with how they came out, can't wait to see how they taste (I haven't tried the Brazil as espresso before). And curious to see the Colombian extended-portion/stalled roast to see if the flavours are enhanced XD
    Last edited by simonsk8r; 1st November 2018 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Change of emoji ;)

  9. #2109
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Simonsk8r, in case you hadn't noticed yet emoji tags don't work here.


    Java "No moji" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

  10. #2110
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile View Post
    Simonsk8r, in case you hadn't noticed yet emoji tags don't work here.


    Java "No moji" phile
    OH really haha, no I had no idea! They certainly show up properly in Tapatalk! I'll try and remember that XD

  11. #2111
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    Couple of trials of the competition beans this evening, smelling good off the roaster. 2 goes at a filter roast.

    I finished the session with a batch of PNG Waghi, 14.5% Moisture loss:
    PNG Waghi 1.11.18.PNG
    PNG Waghi 1.11.18.jpg
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  12. #2112
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Roast batch looks like a good'n Janus...

    Don't forget to come back with in the cup impressions.

    Mal.

  13. #2113
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    I need to work on that part “tastes good, good coffee” probably doesn’t quite cut it
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  14. #2114
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    Haven’t sampled yet Mal, but it’s smelling a bit roasty in the container 3 days post roast. Will try a brew on Wednesday.
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  15. #2115
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    Ethiopia Gambella Naturals with_India El.Hills 'AA' and_Indo. Sumatra 'C'

    Well, had a bit of a mini-drama roasting today...

    Got about five minutes in and the Laptop bit the dust. Had to revert back to "Old School" using Temperature and Time only. The end result should be Ok but isn't the profile I set out to do. Ah well, will be a bit of a surprise roast so will be interesting to test the outcome in a few days time.

    You know that saying, that "When at the beach, sand just gets into everything!"
    It also applies to chaff when roasting coffee. I always diligently vacuum over the keyboard and all the other possible entry points for chaff to gain entry. What I have never checked though, is the battery recess. It was chocablock full of very fine chaff that had worked its way into the battery connection socket, from somewhere? A quick vacuum and brush out in there, soon cleaned things up and the laptop is good to go again. Phew!...

    Anyway back to the roast batch - Tried to maintain a gradually decreasing gradient that resulted in 1st-Crack occurring at 198C, after which the batch was pulled at 221C indicated roughly four minutes later for a total roast batch time of ~18 minutes. Smelled pretty good when the beans were in the cooler.

    The blend details are listed below along with a couple of post-roast photos attached as per usual.

    Mal.

    Blend Details...
    Ethiopia Gambella Naturals... 350g
    India El.Hills 'AA'... 250g
    Indonesia Sumatra 'C'... 150g
    Roasted Weight... 638g
    Moisture Loss... 14.93%
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  16. #2116
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Well, had a bit of a mini-drama roasting today...

    Got about five minutes in and the Laptop bit the dust. Had to revert back to "Old School" using Temperature and Time only. The end result should be Ok but isn't the profile I set out to do. Ah well, will be a bit of a surprise roast so will be interesting to test the outcome in a few days time.

    You know that saying, that "When at the beach, sand just gets into everything!"
    It also applies to chaff when roasting coffee. I always diligently vacuum over the keyboard and all the other possible entry points for chaff to gain entry. What I have never checked though, is the battery recess. It was chocablock full of very fine chaff that had worked its way into the battery connection socket, from somewhere? A quick vacuum and brush out in there, soon cleaned things up and the laptop is good to go again. Phew!...

    Anyway back to the roast batch - Tried to maintain a gradually decreasing gradient that resulted in 1st-Crack occurring at 198C, after which the batch was pulled at 221C indicated roughly four minutes later for a total roast batch time of ~18 minutes. Smelled pretty good when the beans were in the cooler.

    The blend details are listed below along with a couple of post-roast photos attached as per usual.

    Mal.

    Blend Details...
    Ethiopia Gambella Naturals... 350g
    India El.Hills 'AA'... 250g
    Indonesia Sumatra 'C'... 150g
    Roasted Weight... 638g
    Moisture Loss... 14.93%
    Ah yikes, sorry to hear about the laptop, good recovery though! I never actually considered vacuuming the laptop, I've found chaff on the keys at times (just blow it off usually), but didn't think the finer stuff would get in... thanks for the reminder! Hope the blend turns out a stunner still
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  17. #2117
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    I had a great day of coffee yesterday, got together for a roast day with another forum member who very kindly hosted and taught me a lot about coffee and roasting. He quickly worked out the best settings and operating range for my roaster including batch sizing using a range of measurements. 8 roasts of Gambella back to back, HEAPS learnt. Exciting to see the progression from first roast (starting with my old roast settings/parameters) through to the final roasts where we honed in on the roasts at a few different depths, and talking about how the flavour of the bean is affected at different ranges. The drink in the cup was night and day, my first roast was horrible, thereafter with new settings the improvement was significant and even straight off the roaster were some of the best coffee I've had from my roaster. I now know what Gambella is meant to taste like, done right it is bang for buck an amazing coffee.

    A few comments/learnings:
    1. Coffee can taste great straight off the cooler, i had a delicious soy FW with no harshness and the grounds were still warm from the roaster. In espresso which i don't drink and usually find way too strong, i had difficulty differentiating between a 2 week old roast and one just done (a reflection on my palate), both shots had excellent body.
    2. Fine tuning is certainly that, we determined that the range of adjustment i need to make for airflow with a range of 1 to 9 on my machine is between 1.2 and 1.8. I've been using zero, then 3 then full blast without having looked at how much air is actually being pulled into the drum. I've also been compensating for too much heat applied by increasing air flow. I think a good piece of advice to any drum roasters out there who are learning, would be to chose a low air setting, and learn to roast by adjusting your heat settings without touching the air initially, I think with this approach you're more likely to see if you're using too much heat or not enough and get close to good roasting parameters, than if you adjust both variables straight from the get go. I could be wrong on this and am happy to be disproven.
    3. ET (environmental ie. heat applied to the drum outside the drum if that makes sense) is a great piece of data for seeing what's happening overall. My BT and exhaust probe readings differ enormously from the ET. It allowed us to work out what heat setting was needed for the roaster, without it I would have continued throwing darts in the dark.
    4. I need to work on consistency in brewing, it's very difficult to cup and compare coffee' if you're dealing with brew defects. The forum member who hosted me made a consistent brew every time, measured coffee in, measured and timed coffee out. Without cupping and comparing roasts, and making subsequent adjustments to future roasts, rinse and repeat, improvement is going to be very difficult to accomplish.
    5. Development and roast depth are not the same thing. I had the belief that an espresso roast would need to be dark to smooth it out, however I can see this is not necessary. One of the best shots we tried from yesterdays roasts was dropped to cool only 8c after first crack. I now think roast depth is more about taste preference and body preference.

    Ahh, better get to work.

  18. #2118
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Nothing like getting some lessons from someone who knows what they're doing...

    Good one Janus.

    Mal.

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    Hi Janus,

    Which roaster are you using?

    Excellent observations and advice for a newbie like me. I have definitely picked up a few tips to try out next time I roast.

    Cheers

  20. #2120
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    I'm using a Quest M3s roaster.

  21. #2121
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    I had a great day of coffee yesterday, got together for a roast day with another forum member who very kindly hosted and taught me a lot about coffee and roasting. He quickly worked out the best settings and operating range for my roaster including batch sizing using a range of measurements. 8 roasts of Gambella back to back, HEAPS learnt. Exciting to see the progression from first roast (starting with my old roast settings/parameters) through to the final roasts where we honed in on the roasts at a few different depths, and talking about how the flavour of the bean is affected at different ranges. The drink in the cup was night and day, my first roast was horrible, thereafter with new settings the improvement was significant and even straight off the roaster were some of the best coffee I've had from my roaster. I now know what Gambella is meant to taste like, done right it is bang for buck an amazing coffee.

    A few comments/learnings:
    1. Coffee can taste great straight off the cooler, i had a delicious soy FW with no harshness and the grounds were still warm from the roaster. In espresso which i don't drink and usually find way too strong, i had difficulty differentiating between a 2 week old roast and one just done (a reflection on my palate), both shots had excellent body.
    2. Fine tuning is certainly that, we determined that the range of adjustment i need to make for airflow with a range of 1 to 9 on my machine is between 1.2 and 1.8. I've been using zero, then 3 then full blast without having looked at how much air is actually being pulled into the drum. I've also been compensating for too much heat applied by increasing air flow. I think a good piece of advice to any drum roasters out there who are learning, would be to chose a low air setting, and learn to roast by adjusting your heat settings without touching the air initially, I think with this approach you're more likely to see if you're using too much heat or not enough and get close to good roasting parameters, than if you adjust both variables straight from the get go. I could be wrong on this and am happy to be disproven.
    3. ET (environmental ie. heat applied to the drum outside the drum if that makes sense) is a great piece of data for seeing what's happening overall. My BT and exhaust probe readings differ enormously from the ET. It allowed us to work out what heat setting was needed for the roaster, without it I would have continued throwing darts in the dark.
    4. I need to work on consistency in brewing, it's very difficult to cup and compare coffee' if you're dealing with brew defects. The forum member who hosted me made a consistent brew every time, measured coffee in, measured and timed coffee out. Without cupping and comparing roasts, and making subsequent adjustments to future roasts, rinse and repeat, improvement is going to be very difficult to accomplish.
    5. Development and roast depth are not the same thing. I had the belief that an espresso roast would need to be dark to smooth it out, however I can see this is not necessary. One of the best shots we tried from yesterdays roasts was dropped to cool only 8c after first crack. I now think roast depth is more about taste preference and body preference.

    Ahh, better get to work.
    Some awesome tips in there Janus, thanks heaps for sharing! And yeah there's nothing like roasting with someone who knows their stuff!

    Also: I must try pulling a shot straight from the cooling tray beans haha, don't know how to control that fizzy monster of a shot but I'll grind much finer hehe

  22. #2122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Blend Details...
    India El.Hills 'AA'... 200g
    Ethiopia Sidamo Guji... 350g
    Indonesia Sumatra 'C'... 200g
    Roasted Weight... 634g
    Moisture Loss... 15.47%
    This roast batch hasn't worked as well as the previous batch using this profile.
    I think taking it to the start of 2nd-Crack was a couple of degrees too far. Will keep a much closer eye on the gradient approaching 1st-Crack next time and pull it at around 221C...

    Basically, there is very little of the beans' intrinsic flavour nuances coming through. Loads of dark chocolate, body and sweetness but acidity is severely diminished and the finish is quite short. Still very drinkable but was hoping for more...

    Mal.
    Think I may have sold this combo short...
    As time has marched on, the results in the cup just kept getting better and better with a noticeable improvement in acidity. Still loads of cocoa with a touch of caramel, plenty of soft spices and a more extended finish. Altogether a very nice result still...

    Mal.
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  23. #2123
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Think I may have sold this combo short...
    As time has marched on, the results in the cup just kept getting better and better with a noticeable improvement in acidity. Still loads of cocoa with a touch of caramel, plenty of soft spices and a more extended finish. Altogether a very nice result still...

    Mal.
    I love when that happens, sometimes time to breathe is all it needs
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  24. #2124
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    I love when that happens, sometimes time to breathe is all it needs
    it is interesting following a roast over a few weeks and noticing the subtle changes that develop over a period of time!
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  25. #2125
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Haha...

    I'll wait a bit longer before describing the outcomes of a roast batch next time around...

    Mal.
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  26. #2126
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    Another new coffee tonight. Burundi Yandaro Washed. A seriously dense coffee that made for an interesting roast.

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  27. #2127
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Brazil:
    1. 350g400P5manual. P3 C D at Rolling FC. (Although FC blended too much into SC...) Stopped at SC 235°ish 16.57% loss, CS10.

    2. 350g400P5manual. 25%P2 (as there was no proper gap in the transition from FC to SC in the last roast..) C D at Rolling FC. Stop 230°. 15.57%, CS8.
    Brazil roasts turned out interesting! The first was clearly too dark, but intentional as I wanted to see what temp SC happened. Tasted dark-chocolatey, but couldn't get the harshness out of it.

    The second slightly lighter roast has been nice, is really quite sweet, chocolatey, nutty, creamy body, sweet lingering aftertaste. But all through there is a errr.. 'woody' flavour to them. I can't explain it better than that! Just tastes wood-like. Anyone else know what I'm talking about?

    Whether it's a desirable quality or not I can't quite figure out, I'm still enjoying it nevertheless. Perhaps it's more of a nuttiness that I can't quite get a proper descriptive word for?

    Nevertheless, next time I roast it I'll do a much slower ramp up anyway, am thinking 75% heat at the start until FC (hooooping that's enough heat still to get it consistently rising). If the graph dips/flat-lines in that period, I may then go up to 100%.
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  28. #2128
    Senior Member solace's Avatar
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    I have experienced woody flavours in some of my roasts but attribute those to smoke, leaving just that little bit too much smoke in the system resulted in a very faint smokyness but the flavour profile reminded me of red gum when it first hits the fire. Maybe look at your airflow leading into, and during, FC? Open up the air if you can during this part of the roast.

  29. #2129
    Senior Member solace's Avatar
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    Today I added a toggle switch to my KKTO in place of the thermostat, I also added a new 4mm thermocouple for BT, this replaced a 1.5mm probe which had taken one beating too many from the beans in the drum.

    Tested the system with 550g of Decaf Wow. It was quite a challenge to predict when to turn the heating element on/off whilst trying to keep to the profile I usually use for the Decaf. I feel the I need to get a variac to control the heating element so as I have the precise control I have come to expect (the downside to having used a commercial gas roaster I guess), but that's a project for another (and rare) free day!

    Note the increase in RoR part way through maillard, this is me freaking out that I was being too agressive with toggling the heating element and was going to stall the roast before seeing FC. I also feel that RoastLogger is not providing accurate data with respect to RoR (as in the logic behind the calculations is not 100%) as the beans tasted quite different to what I had expected given the profile chart?

    I will build something with an Arduino to interface with my probes and Artisan via MODBUS before next roast.

    decaf_wow_14112018.png

  30. #2130
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    G'day Solace...

    Yes, you have to pay very close attention to heat input at the tail-end of the Maillard phase of the roast, as this comes very close to when the exothermic reaction starts up. It can vary a little from one bean to another too so keeping good records is a must. Once you know the exothermic onset temperature of the beans you're roasting, you must reduce the heat input slightly beforehand, in order not to run into a compounding situation that can cause your roast batch to run away on you...

    Have learned from bitter experience...

    Mal.

  31. #2131
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post

    Yes, you have to pay very close attention to heat input at the tail-end of the Maillard phase of the roast, as this comes very close to when the exothermic reaction starts up.
    Mal.
    Can you explain this distinction?

    My understanding is that the Maillard reactions are exothermic and they are the major endogenous energy source in the roast process so I do not understand what you mean.

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    Hi Lyrebird, I think i understand what Mal means. There's a point in the roast where the rate of rise in temperature of the bean mass will increase with no change having been made to the heat being applied. Generally it's about 5-10c after first crack. It may be technically that the Maillard reaction is exothermic, however beans tend to absorb heat in a predictable way up until the point following FC where the roast will 'run away" from you unless you decrease the heat application significantly, often people refer to this as "going exothermic".

    Mal, correct me if i'm wrong and sorry for jumping in. I have some invoices to reconcile and am an expert procrastinator.
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  33. #2133
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    Thanks Mal, I am usually quite comfortable with holding a steadily declining RoR during Maillard and into FC. The change in configuration of my system resulted in guess work on this roast during that phase of the roast, a few more roasts with the new setup and I should be back to my usual profiles.

    @Lyrebird: as I understand it, most beans become exothermic between 175c and 195c so, yes, Maillard reactions are exothermic for the most part.
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  34. #2134
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solace View Post
    I have experienced woody flavours in some of my roasts but attribute those to smoke, leaving just that little bit too much smoke in the system resulted in a very faint smokyness but the flavour profile reminded me of red gum when it first hits the fire. Maybe look at your airflow leading into, and during, FC? Open up the air if you can during this part of the roast.
    Ah cheers for that. Yeah am not sure what causes that, but not sure what I can do with the Behmor in that regard. I mean I could open the door a tad to let smoke out but would drastically affect temp.. or could double drum speed..

    Am not sure if it's just a hard nuttiness rather than woodiness hehe. See how we go!
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  35. #2135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrebird View Post
    Can you explain this distinction?

    My understanding is that the Maillard reactions are exothermic and they are the major endogenous energy source in the roast process so I do not understand what you mean.
    G'day Lb...

    I wasn't aware that the Maillard phase itself was exothermic, thought it occurred as a result of heat input, not from within. Anyway, if this is the cause of the sudden rise in bean mass temperature, it peaks at what is usually described as the tail end of the Maillard reaction, as per Solace's description.

    Learn something every day...

    Mal.

  36. #2136
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    Maillard reactions start when the coffee is endothermic and ‘yellowing’ and actually continue through exothermic stages right up until close to second crack from what I understand. I think it’s still being debated a little, but the old train of thought was that there was a ‘Maillard Phase’ from the end of ‘drying’ to first crack, but it’s not as simple as that. In fact a lot of these descriptions are over simplistic including ‘drying’ and ‘development’.
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  37. #2137
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    Quote Originally Posted by solace View Post
    I have experienced woody flavours in some of my roasts but attribute those to smoke, leaving just that little bit too much smoke in the system resulted in a very faint smokyness but the flavour profile reminded me of red gum when it first hits the fire. Maybe look at your airflow leading into, and during, FC? Open up the air if you can during this part of the roast.
    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Ah cheers for that. Yeah am not sure what causes that, but not sure what I can do with the Behmor in that regard. I mean I could open the door a tad to let smoke out but would drastically affect temp.. or could double drum speed..

    Am not sure if it's just a hard nuttiness rather than woodiness hehe. See how we go!
    Woodiness is a symptom of past crop coffee. Some coffees will not last a year let alone two. Cedar notes are fine. But anything that tastes/smells like wet wood, pencil shavings, sawdust or pine is a sure sign of old beans.
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  38. #2138
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Woodiness is a symptom of past crop coffee. Some coffees will not last a year let alone two. Cedar notes are fine. But anything that tastes/smells like wet wood, pencil shavings, sawdust or pine is a sure sign of old beans.
    Thanks chokkidog, that's interesting. It's not so much a disgusting woody flavour, but hard to describe. The other flavours are still there, but it's got something I can describe as wood like. It's not exactly unpleasant as such just different. I'll see how my next roast of these turn out, as I definitely wanna try a slower rampup with these. Thanks mate, will keep that in mind for sure
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  39. #2139
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    I think it’s still being debated a little, but the old train of thought was that there was a ‘Maillard Phase’ from the end of ‘drying’ to first crack, but it’s not as simple as that.
    Most of what I've found written about it on the Web describes it that way and usually in terms of between 150C to the start of 1st-Crack. There's also a lot of variation on this theme but nowhere did I note any reference to the Maillard phase (re: coffee roasting) being exothermic. That is something new for me...

    Mal.

  40. #2140
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Most of what I've found written about it on the Web describes it that way and usually in terms of between 150C to the start of 1st-Crack. There's also a lot of variation on this theme but nowhere did I note any reference to the Maillard phase (re: coffee roasting) being exothermic. That is something new for me...

    Mal.
    There's not much to be found, Mal and although theoretical knowledge is one thing, logging roast graphs shows us the dynamics of the predominant atmospheric conditions in the roaster and within the
    air inside the bean mass, giving us a 'picture' of trending conditions at any one time.

    The only thing I've found says that the Maillard Reaction becomes exothermic between 280ºC-450ºC well outside the palatable range of coffee for me.


    INVESTIGATION OF THE MAILLARD REACTION WITH DERlVATOGRAPH (this is a download direct from the search page, you'll find it if you google this title)

    This one below is from an article about spontaneous combustion which suggests that the Maillard reaction becomes exothermic around 175ºC onwards, in our coffee roasting this would
    relate to the onset of Pyrolisis, or caramelisation of sugars. But as we know in practical roasting observations/terms, it is not a continuous net effect to the atmosphere in the roaster, which is what we measure
    and so, we will always see the endothermic, exothermic, endothermic and (if we roast into second crack) exothermic pathway.

    (source- https://www.progressivedairy.com/top...llard-reaction
    Last edited by chokkidog; 16th November 2018 at 02:53 PM.
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  41. #2141
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Thanks very much Chokki'...
    Much appreciated mate.

    Mal.
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  42. #2142
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Gotta love some new beans from Andy

    I've got two new beans for me - the Costa Rica Miel SHB and the Tanzani Kilimanjaro A.

    I roasted the Costa first, with a profile I'd use for most other Centrals like a Guatemala, with a slower gentler profile and dropping just before second crack at 221.5°

    20181117-CostaRicaMiel25anb800g2215drop.jpg

    Big slurpy stone fruit on this one, with good body. Great through milk - nice and bold. My beautiful bride even commented on this one - I usually get 'tastes like coffee!'


    The Tanzanian I roasted second, much like I would a Harrar - faster profile in a hot machine, dropping earlier at 218.5. Got big, tiger-striped meringue like crema, but surprisingly light body. But lovely sweet plum/cherry flavours. So similar in many ways to the Harrar - happy guess!

    20181117-TanzKili25amb800g2185drop.jpg

    These are well worth a go
    Last edited by DesigningByCoffee; 19th November 2018 at 03:15 PM.
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  43. #2143
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    They sound great Matt...

    Mal.
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  44. #2144
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    Finished my bag of PNG Waghi (last year's) yesterday.
    13.6% moisture loss.
    21.11.18 PNG Waghi 160g.PNG
    21.11.18 Waghi 160g.jpg

    I also roasted 2 batches of Yirg and a 50/50 Sulawesi/Danau blend. I think a lot of my beans are getting a bit old now as i've had some for nearly 2 years. Must roast what i have before buying more.

    The last batch of Waghi i roasted using this profile i dropped to cool at 208, they were delicious. In the quest for a touch more acidity i've dropped these 2 degrees lower. See how they go

  45. #2145
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Looks great Janus, ahh I'm so feeling some Yirg, has been too long... that may be my next roast

    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    I think a lot of my beans are getting a bit old now as i've had some for nearly 2 years. Must roast what i have before buying more.
    Ah now THIS is such a hazard I'm finding, something I keep doing.. XD
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  46. #2146
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Yup...

    So many great beans to try and so little time....

    Mal.
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  47. #2147
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    The newest bag of Yirg beans are really nice, they look so fresh. They are a tricky bean to roast though, the crash after first crack is difficult to stop.
    I'm thinking of a few options:
    1. use an even higher heat setting (than i have been) around 190c to avoid the 195+/- crash. Up to this point i've generally reduced the heat setting through the roast.
    2. use a smaller batch size to hopefully allow the additional heat to stop it crashing

    I'm of 2 minds about using airflow. If i reduce airflow to try and retain heat in the bean mass, it could accentuate the crash as the heat is lost from the beans and no air flow means hot air is not being injected. Or if i use more airflow i'm bringing in more air which could pull heat out of the drum giving the same crash effect. I watched the first episode of the new Mill City Roaster's roasting guide (season 2) and they talked about how there is an optimum airflow setting where you are getting the maximum amount of heat into the drum, anything above this and you're pulling more air than the heater can heat so it has a cooling effect, and similarly less air will bring less heat due to the volume of air moved. Not sure where that air setting is on my machine where maximum heat is moved into the drum with airflow and at what temperature setting. Probably something a person with a more technical brain than mine can figure out.
    Might have to tee up another roast day

    Anyway good fun. I'm pleased with how consistent the Quest roaster is from batch to batch, i can follow previous roast profiles very closely using the roast plan.
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  48. #2148
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Colombian:
    1. 350g400P5manual. P3 C D at Rolling FC. Stopped at 224°. 16.29% loss, CS8-9.

    2. 350g400P5manual. Tried to extend maillard phase (which I've been reading about, and know only little about, but just thought I'd give it a crack!)
    Reached 150° then hit P3 for 50% heat, but it stalled and backtracked a faaaair bit, had to switch to P4 75% until 170°, in which I went back to P5 100%. I meant to originally extend it to 180° before full heat, but it was too slow a crawl.... P3 C D at Rolling FC. Stopped at 224°. 16% loss, CS7-8.
    Have almost finished these beans, the first batch (in which it was the first roast I used fully manual controls) turned out just beautifully... in both espresso and in milk. Better than my first batch I did a couple of months ago for sure!

    The second batch in which I "tried" to extend the maillard phase was not so great haha.. the dip I tried to emulate was perhaps far too long, and even though I ended this roast at the same temp as the first (224°), it tastes quite sour and has a strange harshness to it... no matter if I slow the shot right down, higher brew ratio etc... a weird mix of flavour notes! (It did have slightly less weight lost, which doesn't make sense as I extended out a section so thought it would dry out more). It was purely an experiment, but perhaps I shouldn't worry about extending any phase for the moment and just focus on just whether it's a slower or faster heat input at the start, heat adjustment at FC, and end temp.


    Roast day tomorrow! Get excited!
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  49. #2149
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Okeydokey, an interesting session...

    1. Roasted up just a little batch of the COLOMBIAN Supremo Popayan (washed) again, this time I wanted to start at a lower heat, as I didn't realise this was a lower altitude bean and perhaps a little softer. I was happy with how one of my previous faster rampups one turned out, but just wanna experiment and see what happens :P.

    I basically instead of P5 (100% heat) used P4 (75%) from the start. It started to slow down a bit at about 100° so I then went P5. Turned out ok I think!


    2. Next up...... 3x batches of ETHIOPIA Yirgacheffe Aricha Gr3 Natural. Hoooowee here we go!!! Had no idea what to expect but it was an interesting experience!

    First roast I wanted to take to SC (just as a baseline reference point), but the gap between the end of FC and start of SC was quite close, probably 30s gap only? Turned out darker than I think will be enjoyable (especially for the glorious flavour explosion potential a lighter Yirg holds!), but will see.

    The SECOND roast..... :'(. Good ol error/attendance message mayyy have been missed haha.. so it automatically cooled. It was just before FC even started too. So a fudge roast, but I'll still try it in filter. I even tried my best to get the roaster working again but it just refused. (Funnily I always set a timer reminder on my phone to pay attention, it came up, I reset it, did something else and just completely forgot about it! Also a message came up on the roaster it scrolled across saying 'Coffeesnobs' and 'Andy'! Not sure if anyone else has had that happen?)

    Third roast, because there was such a little gap between end of FC and SC, I did P2 (25% heat) at rolling FC instead of the usual P3 (50%) to see if I could lengthen that gap. But it slowed to quite a crawl after end of FC.... (as you can see in that last profile graph...).

    Am a tad puzzled...

    If P3 (50%) at rolling FC meant it rolled a bit too quickly into SC, and P2 (25%) at rolling FC meant it slowed far too much to a crawl, does anyone have suggestions here? Perhaps maybe have a more gentle ramp up at the start so there isn't as much 'momentum'? Or drop the heat to P3 (50%) earlier, say when FC starts?

    I just did 100% from the start, it being quite a hard Ethiopian bean I thought it was better, but if anyone has any suggestions that'd be much appreciated

    All graphs (3rd graph being the flop!), and only a pic of the darker SC Yirg.
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  50. #2150
    Senior Member speleomike's Avatar
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    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Hi all

    This week did a blend in the roaster of Uganda Kisoro 1kg + Indian Monsooned Malabar 300 grams + Indian Monsooned Robusta 100 grams. Ended just a minute from when I expected SC They are now resting in my new Friis Coffee containers from DiBartoli. It will taste fab next week.

    Mike
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