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Thread: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

  1. #1
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    Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    As a newbie roaster who has just scored 5kg of PNG Wahgi, Im hoping some experienced Gene owners can advise optimum settings and times for this bean. I still struggle to hear 2nd crack, so settings and times will be much appreciated to speed the learning curve

    cheers

    argon

  2. #2
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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    Yes second crack is very hard to hear, hold you ear over the chaff collector if you need too then wash your hair if you dont want your pillow to smell like coffee smoke.

    The GeneCafe is sensitive to bean mass and amibient conditions so its probbably pointless giving you a specific profile for a PNG. However it is a relatively easy bean to roast and get good results with.

    When your starting out 250gm at 225c for 18-19 minutes is pretty safe and should be ballpark second crack. Dont take my word for it though sometimes things can happen faster.

    I would suggest that in the gene cafe for most coffees its safe and often a good think to start the cooling cycle before second crack. *Once you start hearing second crack your going to get a darkish tasting roast.
    There are a few signs to look for that your going to hit second crack soon. These might include an increase in smoke, the smell of the smoke changing from a toasty coffee smell to a more sour burnt toffee/coffee smell. Visually the beans will go from having a mottled uneven surface to a smooth almost glossy appearance.

    Im not taking any responsibility if it catches fire, but If your new to roasting I recomend sacrificing a batch and roasting just a little bit darker then you think you should or untill you see some oil on some of the beans. This should give you a complete idea of the various different stages of a roast.

  3. #3
    Senior Member speleomike's Avatar
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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    Hi

    Here is data from my Gene roast of this bean.

    Date: 2009-01-06, temp: 230, total time: 19.5
    quantity: 250 gms, ambient temp: 28C
    FC at 13.5 mins, Clear. Rolling at 14.5 mins.
    SC at 19 mins, Faint SC. Rolling at 19.5.
    temps: 0 60, 5.0 200, 13.5 230, 19.0 230, 19.5 230

    2009-03-00, temp: 235, total time: 18.5
    quantity: 250 gms, ambient temp: 25C
    FC: 14.5, Isolated pops. Turn down to 228C at 15mins.
    Rolling at 15.5 mins. Loud.
    Ended at 18.5 just before SC as dark enough.
    temps: 0 60, 5.0 200, 8.0 213, 10.0 220, 14.0 230, 15.0 228, 16.0 228, 18.5 228

    The temps are the time(mins) temp(C), etc.

    Mike

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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    Tx guys - this will make a great starting pt - do you cool in machine or external?

    argon

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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    I cooled in the machine for 2 years, so its fine if you find it easier. Ive recently started cooling externally but I havnt really experimented enough to say definitively if I think its worthwhile.

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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    My usual cooling technique is to use the "fast cool" (press the
    button twice in quick succession for a cooling cycle that stops
    at 100C). I let this go until about 150C, by which time most of
    the chaff has been cleared out, then *E stop and finish in an
    exernal cooler. The drum goes back in the Gene to finish
    cooling at normal rate.

    But if the roast looks / smells / sounds as if it has gone faster
    than I wanted, beans go into the external cooler immediately.

    The one and only test I ever did didnt show much either way.
    Not to say that proper testing wouldnt find differences though.

  7. #7
    Senior Member speleomike's Avatar
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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    Hi

    I cool in the machine.
    The variation of my shots from my espresso technique far exceeds any difference in my roaster cooling method :-)
    Besides, allowing the Gene to cool to 60C before the fan stops is probably better for the Gene in the long run.

    Mike

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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    Thanks for advice - I ran 2 batches tonight, basically following speleomikes profile - My temperature rise much more quickly. 1st crack was around 12:15 - I heard what i think were cracks around 19:00min at which time i ended the roasts. Is the 6 to 7 min between start of 1st crack to start of 2nd crack sound right?? Beans look OK

    thanks again

    argon

  9. #9
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    That sounds pretty good to me, I usually aim for numbers in that ballpark for the tastes I enjoy.

    Let us know how you enjoy your shots after a few days resting.

    Greg

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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    First time GC user and have received my first batch of BeanBay green beans! The Wahgi AA is the second bean I have tried (after the Kenya AA that came with the machine). I have noticed that there is very little chaff and even less - as in no - smoke. Is this how things should be?? My first couple of roasts with the Wahgi were not that great, in looks - mottled and uneven - nor taste - very thin flavour after 4 days. Roast 2 and 3 with this bean are too fresh to be using yet.
    I hope this means something to someone - sorry am not quite upto to all the taste terminology yet!
    thoughts and comments appreciated.............

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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    Quote Originally Posted by 222147717C7B7562100 link=1254033836/9#9 date=1254559572
    First time GC user and have received my first batch of BeanBay green beans! The Wahgi AA is the second bean I have tried (after the Kenya AA that came with the machine). I have noticed that there is very little chaff and even less - as in no - smoke. Is this how things should be?? My first couple of roasts with the Wahgi were not that great, in looks - mottled and uneven - nor taste - very thin flavour after 4 days. Roast 2 and 3 with this bean are too fresh to be using yet.
    I hope this means something to someone - sorry am not quite upto to all the taste terminology yet!
    thoughts and comments appreciated.............
    I thought I would attach the roasting spreadsheet for anyone to comment on so anyone would have the info behind the roast. (I got the basic template from Avacuppa)






  12. #12
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    I dont own a Genecafe so Ill leave it to those who do to comment on your profile. I suggest what you have identified as FC and RFC just before cooling is more likely to be second crack but you seemed to have taken it a long way into it, if so. So you either have a fairly light roast or a quite dark one. You didnt hear any other cracks at around the 10 - 12 minute mark?

    There are a number of videos on Youtube that might be useful??

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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    Hi Flynn
    I am finding the cracks difficult to hear - particularly 1st crack. I suspect that you ar correct in that I am hearing second crack because the beans are gettting fairly dark. A big secret here but I have even tried using my stethoscope to see if I can pick them better - but sshh dont tell anyone.

    I think it is all in the praticing (and running out to buy beans in an emergency!)

  14. #14
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    Hi rynnlic,

    I find that the best way to hear the cracks is to get a ways away on the exhaust side of Gene. The cracks seem to travel better than the sounds of the machine itself.

    My usual profile is to set the machine on 225°C for most beans and 220°C for Africans. I roast 250 gms for chaffy beans and Monsoon Malabar, and 300 gms for clean roasting beans.

    I aim for first crack at 12 or 13 minutes in, adjusting the temperature for the next roast if required to get this timing. At first crack I drop the set temperature by 5°C to slow the ramp to second crack.

    If I dont hear second crack (and some beans are very subtle) I stop when the colour is right. My aim is to finish six minutes or so after first crack starts, at a colour of CS 9 or 10. This is usually just at the start of second crack.

    Of course differences in personal tastes, and individual thermostats make all this YMMV.

    Good luck.

    Greg

  15. #15
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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi


    rynnlic, I had a look at your log and found something vaguely
    similar in my notebook. Not Wahgi, but another PNG bean, Kimel
    (which is actually close by geographically). Similar your roast no 2,
    I had a 5:30 drying cycle at 165C, then set to 240C, which was reached
    at 8:50. FC came at 12:00; my notes say "loud". Unlike your profile, I
    then cut to 225C, and SC came about five minutes later. If I had left
    it at 240C, as you did, I suspect SC would have come within 2.5 - 3
    mins. Differences are that you didnt preheat, whereas I preheat at
    250C for about ten minutes, and I used 250g to your 200g (which is a
    bit tricky IME, this would probably give you a longer time to SC).
    Both these factors would contribute to stretching out your times cf mine.

    Anyway, going by that, and that your weight loss is only 14%, I
    suspect that your roast 2 reached FC as noted and that you pulled it
    about 75% of the way to SC. In which case, if you break some beans
    open, you should find them somewhat lighter inside. If so, getting
    a good espresso shot may be difficult. Id suggest to try a sort of
    cupping: take 10g, grind very coarsely, boil some water, let it cool
    off for about half a minute, pour over the grinds to a cup full, wait
    four minutes, scoop the gunk off the top, and try the coffee out of a
    soupspoon. Keep doing so for a few minutes (I go up to about twenty)
    noting the flavours. Are you getting grassy overtones, a bit
    "greenish", may be slightly sour? This would suggest the roast is not
    developed enough. If you get mellower notes, cocoa-ish, sweeter, then
    probably fine and should do a good espresso. The advantage of the
    cupping technique is that it is quite revealing and you can do it
    within a day or so of roasting, no need to wait several days.

    If you are having trouble with the cracks, try this. Load 230g of
    beans (230g is good because the Gene always works well at this dose,
    if it is a chaffy bean it wont throw so much chaff as to impede
    airflow and give anomalous sensor readings). Then set to 250C and let
    it keep going. With this much heat going in, FC should be quite loud;
    you should hear the "pops" clearly at the exit of the chaff collector
    for 1 1/2 minutes or so. Then SC will follow as a fainter crackling
    sound, but changes in colour and smell, and usually more smoke, should
    give clues that it is happening. Then you will see oil on the beans,
    they will get a lot darker, and youll hear the vigorous crackling of
    rolling SC. You may not like the results (probably best as compost)
    but youll experience all the stages. (Take care not to let it go too
    far beyond the black and oily stage, this is a rather extreme roasting
    "profile").

  16. #16
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    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Many thanks to Geg and Hazbean for the guidance and pointers. Ill be on to it and let you know what the outcome was.

    I did break some beans open and they were the same colour as the outside apart from the crack line that had some paler chaff in it.

    Still to do the cupping - hell its exciting all this new info. Heres hoping that there is great coffee to be had at the end of it!

    thanks again chaps!



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