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Thread: Temperature differences twixt roasters

  1. #1
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    Temperature differences twixt roasters

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Having seen roast profile temps in the 220s and so on, had me wondering am I missing out on something. Using my HottopD I am finding that FC usually hits at around the 200 to 205 deg mark, with SC dropping in most times around 2 mins after end of FC.

    Whilst Im having no complaints about the taste results I am getting, it had me wondering am I getting the best out of my beans compared with those who have a greater say in managing their roast profiles and are able to factor in higher temps.

  2. #2
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: Temperature differences twixt roasters

    Hi Pierre I reach first crack on my Corretto around 198-200C and then once rolling first crack hits I cut back on the temp so that it runs at around 3-4C per minute until I reach the stage of the roast Im looking for, usually 4-5 minutes later at around 218-220C and then hit the cooler quick smart, the crucial part is not stalling the roast when easing off the heat!
    Hopefully some Hottop roasters can steer you in the right direction :)

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    Re: Temperature differences twixt roasters

    Quote Originally Posted by 707C796D74786F6F782D2B1D0 link=1258127943/0#0 date=1258127943
    Having seen roast profile temps in the 220s and so on, had me wondering am I missing out on something. Using my HottopD I am finding that FC usually hits at around the 200 to 205 deg mark, with SC dropping in most times around 2 mins after end of FC.
    Pierre, Im a bit new to the roasting game as well but I do have a Hottop and have never hit a temp 220 temp and if I did Im certain the roast would be very very dark. Greg Pulman has been a fantastic help in getting a handle on using the Hottop and Im sure hed give you some advice if asked. One thing I have noticed is that my Hottop (which does not have a bean temperature probe) does seem to run hotter compared with the stats of the roasts he does (but he is using the temp probe) so I make adjustments to the power levels to try to get similar temps/times, however, the lack of bean temp probe in my machine maybe the reason for the differences. I think you pretty well hit it on the head when you said you enjoy what you produce.

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    Senior Member Luke_G's Avatar
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    Re: Temperature differences twixt roasters

    I recently bought a Hottop B and have been roasting madly ever since.
    After a long line of poppers i finally got the Hottop and have never looked back!

    I personally think 220 is too high? :-? I have found pushing the roasts past about 216 makes then very dark and the oils start to seep out within hours of roasting.

    Im no pro roaster with the Hottop but i have found that full power heat element with the fan off till you get to the "tan" stage then back the power off to 80% with the fan at 25%..once your into first crack, put the fan up to 50% and take the heating element down a bit more if it seems to be going too fast for you then eject just into second crack(aprox 214c).

    This is the same profile i use (give or take a few %) for most been types for a first roast. Then ill make adjustments after that based on taste.

    Im in the same boat as you with the temps situation. I should have opted for the bean temp probe at the time of purchase but i thought it would be too much for me to get used to ...i was wrong!

    Im led to believe that the Hottop temps are around 10% behind actual bean temps? So dont use the Hottops standard tempurature readout as a temp bible but more of a consistancy tool :)

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    Re: Temperature differences twixt roasters

    With the D I dont have the ability to adjust aspects of thee process. Using a trick AM showed me, I lift the hatch opening and filter out once einto FC to just give it a little longer taking it to SC. My standard modus operandi is to drop the beans just at start of SC, but do adjust for some different beaNs based on posts here.

    I guess my main query was given that basically I have a standard roast profile, wheras the dudes and dudettes using corettos and KKTOs have the luxury of being able to make many different adjustments to their roasts. Am I going to miss out much in terms of what I can potentially get from my beans compared to those mentioned above?

  6. #6
    Senior Member GrahamK's Avatar
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    Re: Temperature differences twixt roasters

    Hi Pierre,
    I have a Hottop B with a Thermocouple installed, and suggest that your beans are probably getting hotter than you suspect. I found when I track both the Probe & the Roaster on a chart, the probe lags behind the roaster initially until FC, which seems to be the point at which they cross. After that point the Probe shows escalating higher temps than the Hottop temps. As matter of interest I recently decided to change my profile to shorten the roast a bit, and this meant ramping up the temp as you have mentioned. What I found personally was that meant the window from the start of the SC, to where I prefer to Unload, became a lot shorter, and I pushed them all beyond my "sweet spot". The result was both my family and the couple of people I supply found the roast too dark for both straight expresso and Milk based coffees. Even though the beans appeared initially to be be OK and within spec. I ended up having to supply replacement "freebies" to my friends, and using my own stock for experimental purposes only :-[

    I imagine that different roasting profiles are dependant on both the Roaster type as well as the beans, and some roasters are more suited to the quicker FC and higher temps, but then their ability to reduce the heat more dramatically using Gas burners, heat guns etc provide greater control. The Hottop profiles suggested by Greg Pullman, and the Hottop manual, seem to be pretty close to spot-on for the Hottop.

    Hope that help

    Regards,
    Graham

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    Re: Temperature differences twixt roasters

    I think its fair to say that a greater level of control over the roast gives you the potential to create a wider variety of flavours from the same bean, and therefore a greater pool of flavours from which to find a taste you particularly like. Having said that, as you are the one drinking the stuff, if youre happy with what the preset profile is giving you and have no desire to experiment with seeing how the beans respond to a different profile then theres little case for change. However if I read your comments correctly, youre happy with what youre getting but are curious as to whether they could be better still, and if so then the answer is quite possibly. An upgrade kit is the simplest way to get yourself into a Hottop B if you decided you wanted that flexibility, theyre around the $500 mark.

    Addicted:
    The program sheet we send out with each roaster is designed to point people in the right direction rather than being the best profile to use as that will vary from machine to machine, from state to state due to different mains voltages, and certainly from bean to bean, without taking into account individual taste preferences. As such the sample program aims to point people in the right direction from which point they can fine-tune things as they need. The temperatures shown in that sample program are based on the temperatures shown on the Hottop display panel, not from the bean mass probe, to ensure those who dont purchase the bean mass probe addition arent left high and dry.

    LukeG:
    Temperatures do vary between the bean mass probe and what the Hottop shows, otherwise of course there would be no point having a separate temperature sensor! Its not however a static figure otherwise again you could just deduct 10 degrees or whatever from the display panel reading and theres your bean temp. The difference varies from about 25 degrees early in the roast, to about the same around second crack or a bit before, sometimes going several degrees over just after second crack. Heres the graph we have on our website:



    You can take those figures and apply them to a subsequent roast of the same bean, size, profile etc and youll be about right, but theyll change for different batch sizes, heating speeds and for larger or smaller beans, which is why the probes really the only way to be absolutely sure of whats going on. Also as the datalogger has 0.1 degree resolution its a lot easier to ensure the roast is just climbing as you approach SC rather than finding its slowly going backwards. Ive been able to get 1-2 degree / minute temperature rises in the closing stages of a roast as a result of this information; in the past I thought I was doing that but as you can see from the graph, while the Hottop display was saying temps were juuuuust rising, in reality the bean temperatures were rising a lot faster so in that sense the Hottop panel gives a bit of a false sense of security.

    I should say in conclusion that the bean mass probe is not NECESSARY to get good results from the Hottop. Its a fantastic product off the shelf and you can get excellent results from it in its standard form as many many people (myself included) have done. However with accurate data on which to base your program which the bean mass probe provides, your job of nailing precisely the result youre wanting is undoubtedly an easier exercise.

    Greg

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    Re: Temperature differences twixt roasters

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Quote Originally Posted by 495C4B495E5B4242434F402E0 link=1258127943/6#6 date=1258338868
    I think its fair to say that a greater level of control over the roast gives you the potential to create a wider variety of flavours from the same bean, and therefore a greater pool of flavours from which to find a taste you particularly like. Having said that, as you are the one drinking the stuff, if youre happy with what the preset profile is giving you and have no desire to experiment with seeing how the beans respond to a different profile then theres little case for change. However if I read your comments correctly, youre happy with what youre getting but are curious as to whether they could be better still, and if so then the answer is quite possibly. An upgrade kit is the simplest way to get yourself into a Hottop B if you decided you wanted that flexibility, theyre around the $500 mark.


    Greg
    Thanks Greeg. Yep, What Ill probably look to do is try different drop points based on others experiences to. I like the idea of the upgrade, but have settled on a machine/grinder package as the next step in soothing upgraditis, and thats at least 7/8 months away. *I do enjoy the results zim getting now...its probably worth just sitting back and enjoying them without worrying overly if Im missing out on something.



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