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Thread: Re-roast

  1. #1
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    Re-roast

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I know this is a stupid question, but can you re-roast a buggered up roast that was too light a few days or even a few minutes after theyve been cooled?
    I know you theoretically can - cause I roasted some Ethiopian Limu a few days ago that I pulled too early, before 2nd crack. Had a quick taste today and they are really gross, sour and grassy.
    Then I was roasting some Peaberry today and my bread maker cut out (error - too hot) a bit before 2nd crack, so I had about the same roast depth on that as the Limu.
    I decided to have a go at chucking them back in the BM and roasting a bit more to the onset of 2nd crack so that rolling 2nd was while they were in the cooler.
    But what does it do to the beans? I know its not ideal, but interested to hear thoughts.
    Cheers

  2. #2
    Senior Member dski's Avatar
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    Re: Re-roast

    Quote Originally Posted by 303B373F292A383F3B29363F235A0 link=1331940433/0#0 date=1331940433
    I know you theoretically can - cause I roasted some Ethiopian Limu a few days ago that I pulled too early, before 2nd crack. Had a quick taste today and they are really gross, sour and grassy.

    I cant speak for your other issues, but I do often find recently roasted coffee has grassy notes that lessen and dissappear with age. Often takes at least a few days. The Monsooned Malabar semed to take around 10 days for the grassy, almost cow poo like notes to disappear. I guess it varies between styles, and depending on the degree of roast.

  3. #3
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Re: Re-roast

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A6D75771E0 link=1331940433/1#1 date=1331942838
    almost cow poo like notes to disappear.
    I often look for cow poo like notes in my coffee... ;D
    Cant say Ive tasted that in my roasts so far...grassy yes. Im not even sure what cow poo is supposed to taste like. :-?

    jb, guess you can tell us how re-roasting tastes like soon? I would think it would make a difference since its all a chemical process...you do have twice cooked food, so cant say for sure itll be undrinkable.

  4. #4
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Re: Re-roast

    JB, Like you ive had the same thing happen a few times with my bread maker. (which i made a little alteration to so it would happen again). Luckily one of those roasts went to what i thought was too under roasted but it turned out better than first expected. Which lead me on to roasting certain types of my beans a little lighter.

    However there was a bunch i really under roasted, which i tried to re roast which turned out weird. Being the best way to describe it as i had roasted them before and they were great however after the mistake with this lot and re roasting they lacked the taste the first lot did. I believe the taste was lost from then over doing the beans.
    I dont know if it had something to do with them already getting to first crack?? but i would think that if you re roasted them at that point that they would go down hill?

    Mind you this is only my opinion and others may have different ideas.

    Cheers

    Chris :)

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    Re: Re-roast

    Cool thanks guys,
    Looking at the membership card photo (I have to get one of those for myself!) I reckon I roasted the first time to about CS6-7. They were still quite tan with some brownish spots. Cause Im not roasting to a temperature (need a probe, but need to give it time before I ask the wife!), I think when i pull the heat on the HG down after 1st crack I might be pulling it down too much. As in the temp of the beans might start to go down slightly, stabilise, and then slowly rise as I increase the heat again - not good. So i reckon it only got to CS6-7.
    When I re-roasted them this morning and took out so a few snaps of second was in the cooling bucket, I reckon they got to a CS9.
    Ill let them rest a bit and then taste and let you know how it goes! They wont be great no doubt, but hopefully drinkable!

  6. #6
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    Re: Re-roast

    I tried a re-roast with some under done monsooned malabar gold. After some okay darker SO and blended roasts and then one really bad, oily overdone SO batch I read in other posts that MMG should finish lighter that other beans. Anyway went by colour alone and chickened out way too early.

    The re-roast result wasnt too bad. Not the same as other attempts but then Im still aiming for consistency so each batch is kinda diffferent anyway.

    The hard part was trying guess the best profile given I was more interested in the last stages. I thought about splitting the batch and trying two different profiles and comparing the result. In the end I decided the batch was too small and went with the original temp. profile.

    The real lesson was how I got there in the first place and not what I did next. My re-roast came about because of questionable technique not gear failure. Gotta learn to hold my nerve.

    Using a Behmor btw.


  7. #7
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Re: Re-roast

    I believe from what i have read that if you can get between 3-5 mins after first crack without having to pull the beans your doing ok heat wise. I drop my heat accordingly to sight and smell.
    I must add that having a heat probe helps alot and when you have a heat probe you can then also use the following. http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1228795908;start=42;action=threadpaget ext;reversetopic=0

    I have found this a good way to keep up with how each roasts go and weather you need to make changes next time.
    You may already have this if so sorry for the gabble:)

    Good luck with it all

    Chris :)

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    Re: Re-roast

    Just a thought....based on science.
    Water is a conductor. Dry wood is an insulator.
    Moisture content is important to roasting beans when green - water conducts heat to allow even heat distribution in the bean early in the roast and you can carry on with the roast with even heat content after the drying phase. Reroasting will involve dehydrated beans and so I would think even heat distribution in
    the bean is not possible. The result is umlikely to be good.
    On the up side - your bad roasts earn you insight into your mistakes, and excellent compost. Start again. Green beans are cheap. Life is too short for disappointing coffee.

  9. #9
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    Re: Re-roast

    Recently I pressed a wrong button on the HottopB when beans were just at early tanning stage, 160c and the beans dropped into the cooling tray.

    Cooled the roaster and pre-heated to try to marry the pre drop temps. Surprisingly the roast resumed fairly quickly after a small catch up delay and I finished at 217c pre second crack, 3.5 mins after first crack.

    Cupping score 77 compared to 85 regular roast of the same bean.

    Subsequent tastings post rest period confirmed the just drinkable but hardly nice score of 77....chuck out stuff.

    Cheers

    JL

  10. #10
    Senior Member brettreaby's Avatar
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    Re: Re-roast

    Dont chuck em out! give them to friends they wont know the difference and youll be a hero.

    I am regularly giving batches away and for all but the fussiest coffee drinkers they love them. I always choose the best batches for myself. ;D


    Quote Originally Posted by 5F7A7D7B4A597071716C150 link=1331940433/8#8 date=1332011785
    Recently I pressed a wrong button on the HottopB when beans were just at early tanning stage, 160c and the beans dropped into the cooling tray.

    Cooled the roaster and pre-heated to try to marry the* pre drop temps. Surprisingly the roast resumed fairly quickly after a small catch up delay and I finished at 217c pre second crack, 3.5 mins after first crack.

    Cupping score 77 compared to 85 regular roast of the same bean.

    Subsequent tastings post rest period confirmed the just drinkable but hardly nice score of 77....chuck out stuff.

    Cheers

    JL

  11. #11
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    Re: Re-roast

    Chuck em out, stand tall and be proud of what you provide. My garden is littered with dud roasts, I suspect the trees do not mind the difference.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Re: Re-roast

    Ive never heard a compliant from my garden - so they must be alright. ;D

  13. #13
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Re-roast

    You *can* re-roast, although they wont be nearly as good as beans done correctly the first time, and may only be marginally acceptable.

    My advice would be to try the other options for too-light beans first, then, unless you are truly desperate, throw them out and try again.

    Greg

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    Re: Re-roast

    Yeah they werent great, marginally drinkable but not great. Next time I roast too light Ill let them rest for longer before trying and see how that goes.
    Thanks!

  15. #15
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    Re: Re-roast

    I have found it tough re-roasting a buggered up roast.z So much more hands on and you have to think about the agitation as well as applying heat evenly, but at the same time getting enough heat into the beans to make them properly crack.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Divey's Avatar
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    Re: Re-roast

    Quote Originally Posted by 797E7A797E7A797E7A757E691B0 link=1331940433/10#10 date=1332069372
    Chuck em out, stand tall and be proud of what you provide. My garden is littered with dud roasts, I suspect the trees do not mind the difference.
    Wow, what are you doing wrong? I am now roasting with a highly modified popper but even before modifications Ive never thrown a batch out.

    Now, getting back to the OPs question. When I first began roasting I was playing with the ambient temperature to determine what difference it had on roasts in the popper, so I chose a warm day (26 deg.C) to roast some Brazil Yellow Bourbon Especial. In those days, I was measuring roast temperatures with an Infrared Temperature Gun and dumping the beans at 238 deg.C. I know that sounds too high, however, I have since determined that is about right for the Infrared Gun as I now have the USB Digital Multimeter and I compared the two devices together.
    Anyway, the roast climbed to the temp of 238 in a very short period of three minutes. I dumped the beans and rapidly cooled them and noticed that the roast colour was only CS5. Hmmmm, lets do the roast again immediately. The roast rocketed up to 238 in much the same time so I dumped and cooled once more. I had the beans at about CS8, so I roasted them once more to the same temperature of 238 deg dumped and cooled and I then had a roast colour of CS10-11.

    After quite a few days of resting and degassing, I found the coffee made from these beans was quite acceptable and NONE of my coffee tasters could tell that they had been roasted three time.

    Hope that helps a little. :)

    I should have added that First Crack and rolling First crack were experienced in the first roast.

  17. #17
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Re: Re-roast

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Its horrible, grassy, pale crema and even with milk it might taste ok whilst drinking but the after taste that lingers in your mouth reminds me of burnt rubber. I even tried to mix a little with a good roast...its like spraying floral scented airfreshener over garbage...you know the bad smell is there. Maybe the trick is to blast it with high heat to get the crack going as suggested by Divey. I know I couldnt get the beans to crack again in the re-roast and even though the beans were brown all the way through, it still tasted grassy. overall a wasted 250gms of beans. :(



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