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Thread: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

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    Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello all
    i am using a breadmaker /heatgun combo and achieve good coffee easily but i always have to go to c9 or 10 before the second crack--i have tried reducing heat after first crack(where the beans are the colour i want c8 mild) but if i dont give the beans a bit of heat they dont recrack.
    What would beans be like if i roast them to c8 and quit there without 2nd crack(i cant bring myself to try it and waste a roast)
    or how can i get them to 2nd crack without moving up the scale in darkness as all my roasts are ok but always in the well roasted end of scale ,i want to taste the difference in the beans i buy and have a play with roast settings
    2nd crack is always 2 or 3 minutes after first crack
    cheers brian

  2. #2
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Why do you feel the absolute need to get to 2nd crack? Surely its not the objective per se?

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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    I dont feel the absolute need to get to 2nd crack but i thought that was the procedure for roasting coffe, ie getting to first crack is only half way to completing the procedure of making coffee oil caramelise.
    But if im incorrect i can roast to any shade on my coffeesnob card with success
    Im just not sure of the importance of 2nd crack i guess

  4. #4
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A7A616966646D6766080 link=1336611210/2#2 date=1336613552
    I dont feel the absolute need to get to 2nd crack but i thought that was the procedure for roasting coffe, ie getting to first crack is only half way to completing the procedure of making coffee oil caramelise.
    But if im incorrect i can roast to any shade on my coffeesnob card with success
    Im just not sure of the importance of 2nd crack i guess
    Im no expert, but cant see why it is necessary in all cases (most of mine i try to stop just before 2nd C....not always successfully). Depends on the type of bean, your taste preferences, and how you are planning to brew the subsequent coffee. If youre enjoying your CS8 beans more so than CS9 beans that sounds ok to me.

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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    I always dump my beans before second crack and find the flavour profile to be great. I dont think going to second crack is essential TBH. Why not just roast them to the level you like and forget about second crack?

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Quote Originally Posted by 565954475453595A350 link=1336611210/4#4 date=1336619723
    I dont think going to second crack is essential TBH.
    If you never ever go, youll never ever know!

    Providing you have a sufficient quantity to experiment, roasting the same coffee to various levels, including past second crack, is the only way you will ever know at which point you prefer to roast your coffee.

    Depending on the brewing method, lighter roasts can taste grassy and sour.

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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Quote Originally Posted by 19383333342E5D0 link=1336611210/5#5 date=1336625078
    Quote Originally Posted by 565954475453595A350 link=1336611210/4#4 date=1336619723
    I dont think going to second crack is essential TBH.
    If you never ever go, youll never ever know!

    Providing you have a sufficient quantity to experiment,
    roasting the same coffee to various levels, including past second crack,
    is the only way you will ever know at which point you prefer
    to roast your coffee.

    Depending on the brewing method, lighter roasts can taste
    grassy and sour.
    You are of course assuming that I have never done it, which would be incorrect. The fact I roast all my current roasts prior to second crack doesnt mean Ive never tried it any other way. ::)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    I wasnt assuming anything, and my remarks werent solely directed to you.

    However, if I was to assume anything based on your comments, it would be that you have not tried it with every type of bean you roast, or done it too many times. ;D

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    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    The great thing about home roasting is being able to experiment, as Dennis said try the same bean at different roast levels and choose what suits your taste, unless you turn them to charcoal they will taste pretty good!
    Happy roasting :)

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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Dennis you mentioned about brewing methods that some beans may taste grassy and sour when roasted lighter? Can you explain a little more what these methods might be and are they only certain beans and origins?

    Cheers,

    Chris :)


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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    i was hoping someone might tell me if roasting to second crack was the correct way to roast
    for example when i do something or build something the aim is for it to look "just like a bought one"i dont home roast to achieve brown beans at a cheaper price i am trying to match as close as possible a good roast coffee
    most of my roasts---all in the last few years have been as good as anything i try out and about(not gloria jeans shops* real coffee shops) but i am stuck at a deeper roast so
    back to my origional post
    aw stuff it i will roast to c8 cool them and tell you if they are done or not i will sacrifice some beans to find out
    cheers to all
    back in a week or so with my answer

  12. #12
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A6A717976747D7776180 link=1336611210/10#10 date=1336656686
    i was hoping someone might tell me if roasting to second crack was the correct way to roast
    Hi Brian,
    I think it is pretty clear from the responses above is that the answer to this question is it depends (on your tastes / the beans / the brewing method etc). What on earth is a correct way to roast? The reason nobody has given you a definitive answer to this question is because there isnt one. As greenman/Dennis et al. have suggested above, try roasting the same bean a little darker and lighter and see what effect it has.
    Cheers
    BOSW

  13. #13
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Im pleased that there is no definitive answer Brian.* Its been said many times that coffee is like many other foods.* Just as an egg can be cooked in so many different ways, so too can coffee.* It would be horrible if every coffee was roasted or tasted the same!

    Chris, I hope Im able to answer your question here though preface this by saying these are my own views, shared by some and ridiculed by others.* My answer doesnt cover every single coffee either, so please allow for that.

    Roasting any good coffee near, to, or beyond second crack works very well for espresso based drinks.* Coffee roasted to this degree has been transformed past the point where many of the intrinsic nuances of the coffee can be detected.* Dominant flavours are usually described as caramel, chocolate, and less frequently, of dark, dried fruits as found in fruit cake.* If you have a passion to learn, its not that hard to achieve similar results, and like all cooking, good ingredients and equipment make the process easier and the results better.

    However, many raw coffees come to us with descriptions like, citrus, peach, blueberry, plum, tutti frutti, etc. and there is a desire to replicate this for ourselves and the customer.* These descriptions generally come about once the coffee is roasted quickly to just beyond or at first crack and the coffee is ground, weighed into a cup, with hot water added, then cupped.* I have tasted coffees that exhibit many of those fruity flavours when roasted correctly and served in some form of pourover or syphon, but not pressurised methods.

    I dont think I have a very good palate, but it must be better than some of the pretenders out there, who will for example describe a coffee as citrus, though when questioned cant tell you whether they taste lemon, orange, grapefruit, etc.* In these cases I suggest that all that has been done is that the coffee has been roasted too quickly and exited the roaster too early.* It is very easy to make any coffee taste sour in this way.* It has very little to do with the intrinsic nature of the bean and much to do with the poor methodology of roasting.*

    And just to confuse things, I still think you can make a pretty good pourover/syphon with a darker roast, and a good espresso with a lighter roast.* It just doesnt happen too often!

    Cheers
    Dennis

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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Thanks Dennis,

    I must first add with out trying to make a point that my father has always said everyone has a right to have an opinion however if you seek something more towards the truth ask and listen to those who you know have knowledge and age on the information you seek. In this thread its why i have directed it at you. No disrespect to anyone else or to your age Dennis.

    Secondly thanks for your view on roasts types, yes its still a bit confusing and for me its constant learning. All this doesnt help when peoples taste for coffee and the way they have it is so varied. Which i must say makes the whole roasting coffee more enjoyable, trying to achieve beans to suit peoples tastes and types of methods used to drink coffee.

    I musts say a lot of the descriptions in green coffee beans do suck you in and trying to achieve those characteristics is hard. I have taken on board all that has been mentioned.

    Thanks for your personal yet more experienced opinion on the above. Its much appreciated Dennis.

    Cheers

    Chris :)


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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Quote Originally Posted by 505C55555656505B415A40330 link=1336611210/13#13 date=1336698656
    I musts say a lot of the descriptions in green coffee beans do suck you in and trying to achieve those characteristics is hard. I have taken on board all that has been mentioned.
    Coffee people has gone down the path of the wine industry with its pretentious descriptors involving everything from apples to tobacco, most people with an average palate (that includes me) will never experience/detect any of these flavours, guess it sounds good in the advertising though. ::)

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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    if you think coffe people have lost it you should hear some descriptions of good hifi gear as i own a valve amplifier i am often amused when i read of systems that "shimmer" in the top end or are fast and pacy in the midrange though a touch bloomy in the lower octaves
    next time i go online i might say my amp seems to have dominant flavours in the midrange that remind one of citrus and earthy mid tones in the bass regions

    dont know why im tellin you this gonna go make a brew i think
    cheers

  17. #17
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Quote Originally Posted by 534358505F5D545E5F310 link=1336611210/15#15 date=1336702258
    f you think coffe people have lost it you should hear some descriptions of good hifi gear as i own a valve amplifier i am often amused when i read of systems that "shimmer" in the top end or are fast and pacy in the midrange though a touch bloomy in the lower octaves
    next time i go online i might say my amp seems to have dominant flavours in the midrange that remind one of citrus and earthy mid tones in the bass regions

    dont know why im tellin you this .....
    Easy...you were looking fwd to the feedback (Ok, thats the worst Hifi joke told* in the last 20 years)

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    Senior Member DavidW1960's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Quote Originally Posted by 003C352D38590 link=1336611210/14#14 date=1336700735
    Coffee people has gone down the path of the wine industry with its pretentious descriptors involving everything from apples to tobacco, most people with an average palate (that includes me) will never experience/detect any of these flavours, guess it sounds good in the advertising though.
    YES!!!!! Totally agree! I cant taste these either - mind you I do roast fairly dark which may explain it..

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Quote Originally Posted by 417D746C79180 link=1336611210/14#14 date=1336700735
    Coffee people has gone down the path of the wine industry with its pretentious descriptors involving everything from apples to tobacco, most people with an average palate (that includes me) will never experience/detect any of these flavours, guess it sounds good in the advertising though.
    Agree to some extent. When I started with wine I could not taste the difference between one red to another. Now I love a good Aussie red and at the very least can tell an Aussie red to an imported red. Just because we cannot taste these descriptors does not mean it isnt there.

    For instance coffeechris asked what "grassy and sour" means. To many of us we instantly recognise that taste as under extracted and or under roasted beans. Before I never even knew coffee could be anything but bitter. I used to only drink lattes now I drink mostly espresso. With a little more experimenting and experience under my belt I can at least tell the difference between grassy, sour and bitter. I am even picking up some floral, acidity, earthy and cocoa. Past these I will need a little more tasting and experimenting.
    Still learning and happily so :)

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    Re: Roasting to c8 and still reaching second crack

    Behmor Coffee Roaster
    Hello
    t day i roaster to c8 (took all my willpower not to keep the heat going)and as expected break machine timed out before 2 nd crack now beans sitting idle but not a dark roast--so close to 2nd crack minutes away so i waited and as the heat increased the snap crackle pop started not rolling but steady with no more heat
    a perfect home roast not dark and oily a micx of
    Ethiopian Gambella Sundried 80% ROBUSTA Sumatra Extra Large Washed 20% roasted together
    im no expert but it looks ok and had a cup now 6 hours later massive shot of cremma and taske can only get better
    so no more dark oily beans for me
    roast to first crack --keep going with less heat till second crack or till breadmaker times out at 15 minutes
    first crack is always always at 9 minutes with every roast
    a bit rough and ready but results are pretty good
    will post some pics if i can
    cheers to all replies
    brian



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